VR-ZONE KNC B0 leak, poor number?

Article: Computational Efficiency for CPUs and GPUs in 2012
By: Eric (eric.kjellen.delete@this.gmail.com), August 5, 2012 10:37 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
EBFE (x.delete@this.y.com) on August 4, 2012 6:37 am wrote:
> Eric (eric.kjellen.delete@this.gmail.com) on August 3, 2012 7:59 am wrote:
> >
> EBFE (x.delete@this.y.com) on August 3, 2012 1:57 am wrote:
> > > David
> Kanter
> > (dkanter.delete@this.realworldtech.com) on July 26, 2012 9:31 am
>
> > >
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > What is the
> > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > currently best
> ratio of
> > > > GPU to
> > > >
> > > CPU?
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > That depends on your
> >
> workload.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
>
> > > > >
> >
> > > > > > Will
> > > >
> > the best future design be a
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > BlueGene/Q (for best I/O) driving an
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > > > optimum
> > > > number of
> GPUs
> > (for best Compute)?
> > > > > >
> > >
> >
> > > > > If you
> > look at
> > > >
> > > > >
> the chart, it
> > > > >
> > > >
> > should be clear that
> BGQ stands alone and
> > > > doesn't need
> > > >
> > >
>
> > > GPUs. From a power
> > > > > > perspective, it's
> superior
> > to
> > > > all
> > > existing GPUs - and
> >
> > > > it can run a far
> > wider
> > > > > > range
> of
> > >
> > > > workloads.
> > > >
> > > >
>
> > > > > > David
> > > > >
> > > > >
>
> > >
> > BGQ is
> > > > > about the
> > > > same
> as 3GiB HD7970(947G/250W). So
> > BGQ is
> > > quite likely to be
> inferior
> > > > > to
> > > > a 6GiB
> > incoming-gen
>
> > > Firestream.
> > > > > [If I recall correctly, at
> >
> launch time AMD
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > listed 7970
> GPU/board power
> > as 210/250]
> > > >
> > > > I expect
> that the next
> > >
> > > >
> > generation of throughput
> processors (Knights Corner, Tahiti, Kepler) will
> > >
> >
> > >
> > significantly alter the landscape because they represent a jump in
> >
>
> > > >
> > > process.
> > > >
> > > > For AMD
> and Nvidia it is 40nm
> > to 28nm, and for Intel it is
> > > the move
>
> > > > to 22nm.
> > > >
> >
> > > > DK
> > >
> ow">
> > >
> >
> http://vr-zone.com/articles/intel-xeon-phi-b0-stepping--the-knight-in-shin
> >
> >
> > ing-armor-/16871.html

> > > (if not fake) Looks pretty bad: low
> freq, small ram,
> > high
> > > tdp
> > > The number is so bad that
> I tend to think it's fake.
> >
> > Why
> > do you think that? Assuming
> that the top clock frequencies can actually be
> > sustained, it's 8 DP FLOP
> (512-bit vector unit) * 2 (FMA?) * 60 * 1.09 GHz =
> > 1.046 TFLOPS. That's
> in line with the 1 DP TFLOPS that Knights Corner was
> > reported to clock in
> at in DGEMM/LINPACK. TDP and RAM look OK.
>
> Linpack TFlops/300W is likely to
> defeat next Firestream on perf and perf/w, or even next Fermi by
> perf.
>
> However, I am assuming the following disadvantage, so I was expecting
> more flops and flops/W.
> 1. Coding for a target performance level is harder for
> KNC than GPU.

I strongly suspect that the exact opposite is true.

> KNC has to close the gap of low raw flops by significantly
> higher effciency, which could be impossible or make coding harder.

Raw DP FLOPS are much higher than the current competition (Tesla M2090 rates at 665 GFLOPS, presumably in LINPACK, and FireStream 9370 at 528 DP GFLOPS). Tesla K20 (big Kepler) at 28nm will definitely beat KNC though, as far as I know performance targets are at 1.5-2 DP TFLOPS.

> 2. KNC is
> more expensive than GPU. (SNB-EP is already near $2k)

I can't comment on this, but I think that unit price is a low priority parameter for HPC customers.

> 3. On-borad RAM is
> smaller than competition, which may lower real efficiency.

On-board RAM is significantly higher than the current competition, 8GB vs 6GB for Tesla M2090 and 4GB for FireStream 9370.

> 4. SP performance is
> incompetent.

SP performance is irrelevant for HPC applications.

> 4.5 KNC trails GPU in some GPU-favorable workloads.(e.g. where
> GPUs are used for now)

Which ones?
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TopicPosted ByDate
New Article: Compute Efficiency 2012David Kanter07/25/12 01:37 AM
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        GCN - TFLOP DPKevin G08/11/12 05:22 PM
      GCN - TFLOP DPEric08/09/12 05:12 PM
        GCN - TFLOP DPjp08/10/12 01:23 AM
          GCN - TFLOP DPEBFE08/12/12 08:27 PM
            GCN - TFLOP DPjp08/13/12 02:02 AM
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      New Article: Compute Efficiency 2012EBFE07/26/12 02:27 AM
        BG/QDavid Kanter07/26/12 09:31 AM
          VR-ZONE KNC B0 leak, poor number?EBFE08/03/12 01:57 AM
            VR-ZONE KNC B0 leak, poor number?Eric08/03/12 07:59 AM
              VR-ZONE KNC B0 leak, poor number?EBFE08/04/12 06:37 AM
                VR-ZONE KNC B0 leak, poor number?aaron spink08/04/12 06:51 PM
                Leaks != productsDavid Kanter08/05/12 03:19 AM
                  Leaks != productsEBFE08/06/12 02:49 AM
                VR-ZONE KNC B0 leak, poor number?Eric08/05/12 10:37 AM
                  VR-ZONE KNC B0 leak, poor number?EBFE08/06/12 03:09 AM
                    VR-ZONE KNC B0 leak, poor number?aaron spink08/06/12 04:33 AM
                      VR-ZONE KNC B0 leak, poor number?jp08/07/12 03:08 AM
                        VR-ZONE KNC B0 leak, poor number?Eric08/07/12 04:58 AM
                          VR-ZONE KNC B0 leak, poor number?jp08/07/12 05:17 AM
                            VR-ZONE KNC B0 leak, poor number?Eric08/07/12 05:22 AM
                              VR-ZONE KNC B0 leak, poor number?anonymou508/07/12 09:43 AM
                            VR-ZONE KNC B0 leak, poor number?jp08/07/12 05:23 AM
                              VR-ZONE KNC B0 leak, poor number?aaron spink08/07/12 07:24 AM
                        VR-ZONE KNC B0 leak, poor number?aaron spink08/07/12 07:20 AM
                          VR-ZONE KNC B0 leak, poor number?jp08/07/12 11:22 AM
                            VR-ZONE KNC B0 leak, poor number?EduardoS08/07/12 03:15 PM
                        KNC has FMADavid Kanter08/07/12 09:17 AM
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      Best case for GPUsfranzliszt07/25/12 01:39 PM
      Best case for GPUsChuck07/25/12 08:13 PM
        Best case for GPUsDavid Kanter07/25/12 09:45 PM
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  New Article: Compute Efficiency 2012Unununium07/25/12 05:55 PM
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      Ops... I'm wrong...EduardoS07/25/12 08:14 PM
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    Line and factorPeter Boyle07/27/12 07:57 AM
      not entirelyMoritz07/27/12 12:22 PM
      Line and factorEduardoS07/27/12 05:24 PM
        Line and factorMoritz07/28/12 12:52 PM
  tables Michael S07/26/12 02:39 AM
  Interlagos L2+L3Rana07/26/12 03:13 AM
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    Interlagos L2+L3David Kanter07/26/12 09:21 AM
      SP vs DP & performance metricsjp07/27/12 07:08 AM
        SP vs DP & performance metricsEric07/27/12 07:57 AM
          SP vs DP & performance metricsjp07/27/12 09:18 AM
            SP vs DP & performance metricsaaron spink07/27/12 09:36 AM
              SP vs DP & performance metricsjp07/27/12 09:47 AM
                "Global" --> systemPaul A. Clayton07/27/12 10:31 AM
                  "Global" --> systemjp07/27/12 03:55 PM
                    "Global" --> systemaaron spink07/27/12 07:33 PM
                      "Global" --> systemjp07/28/12 02:00 AM
                        "Global" --> systemaaron spink07/28/12 06:54 AM
                          "Global" --> systemjp07/29/12 02:12 AM
                            "Global" --> systemaaron spink07/29/12 05:03 AM
                              "Global" --> systemnone07/29/12 09:05 AM
                                "Global" --> systemEduardoS07/29/12 10:26 AM
                                "Global" --> systemjp07/30/12 02:24 AM
                                  "Global" --> systemaaron spink07/30/12 03:05 AM
                                "Global" --> systemaaron spink07/30/12 03:03 AM
                                  daxpy is STREAM TRIADPaul A. Clayton07/30/12 06:10 AM
                SP vs DP & performance metricsaaron spink07/27/12 07:25 PM
                  SP vs DP & performance metricsEmil Briggs07/28/12 06:40 AM
                    SP vs DP & performance metricsaaron spink07/28/12 07:05 AM
                      SP vs DP & performance metricsjp07/28/12 11:04 AM
                        SP vs DP & performance metricsBrett07/28/12 03:32 PM
                      SP vs DP & performance metricsEmil Briggs07/28/12 06:11 PM
                        SP vs DP & performance metricsanon07/29/12 02:53 AM
                        SP vs DP & performance metricsaaron spink07/29/12 05:39 AM
                          Coherency for discretesRohit07/29/12 09:24 AM
                          SP vs DP & performance metricsanon07/29/12 11:09 AM
                          SP vs DP & performance metricsEric07/29/12 01:08 PM
        SP vs DP & performance metricsaaron spink07/27/12 09:25 AM
  Regular updates?Joe07/27/12 09:35 AM
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      New Article: Compute Efficiency 2012Ingeneer07/30/12 08:04 PM
        New Article: Compute Efficiency 2012David Kanter07/30/12 09:32 PM
          Memory power and bandwidth?Iain McClatchie08/03/12 04:35 PM
            Memory power and bandwidth?David Kanter08/04/12 11:22 AM
              Memory power and bandwidth?Michael S08/04/12 02:36 PM
              Memory power and bandwidth?Iain McClatchie08/06/12 02:09 PM
              Memory power and bandwidth?Eric08/07/12 06:28 PM
                WorkloadsDavid Kanter08/08/12 10:49 AM
                  WorkloadsEric08/09/12 05:21 PM
                Latency and bandwidth bottlenecks Paul A. Clayton08/08/12 04:02 PM
                  Latency and bandwidth bottlenecks Eric08/09/12 05:32 PM
                    Latency and bandwidth bottlenecks none08/10/12 06:06 AM
                  Latency and bandwidth bottlenecks -> BDPajensen08/11/12 03:21 PM
            Memory power and bandwidth?Ingeneer08/06/12 11:26 AM
  NV aims for 1.8+ TFLOPS DP ?jp08/11/12 01:21 PM
    NV aims for 1.8+ TFLOPS DP ?David Kanter08/11/12 09:25 PM
      NV aims for 1.8+ TFLOPS DP ?jp08/12/12 02:45 AM
      NV aims for 1.8+ TFLOPS DP ?EBFE08/12/12 10:02 PM
        NV aims for 1.8+ TFLOPS DP ?jp08/13/12 01:54 AM
          NV aims for 1.8+ TFLOPS DP ?Gabriele Svelto08/13/12 09:16 AM
            NV aims for 1.8+ TFLOPS DP ?Vincent Diepeveen08/14/12 03:04 AM
          NV aims for 1.8+ TFLOPS DP ?David Kanter08/13/12 09:50 AM
            NV aims for 1.8+ TFLOPS DP ?jp08/13/12 11:17 AM
        NV aims for 1.8+ TFLOPS DP ?EduardoS08/13/12 06:45 AM
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