Implications of Broadwell packaging?

By: Linus Torvalds (torvalds.delete@this.linux-foundation.org), December 20, 2012 7:46 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Doug S (foo.delete@this.bar.bar) on December 20, 2012 12:43 am wrote:
>
> If Thunderbolt could do more than 10 watts, or large displays became more efficient,
> you could eliminate the monitor power and have only one additional cable...

Grr. You triggered my hot button on TB.

TB power delivery goes the wrong way!

Thunderbolt was clearly designed as a "faster USB" and the people involved were so set in that mindset that they apparently never realized that the much more useful model for TB was "standard dock", especially with the whole DP thing.

Nobody sane wants to use thunderbolt as a USB replacement - you have USB for that. USB sure as hell isn't perfect, but at least it's cheap, and it's everywhere. And it's good enough for most things. And the things it isn't good enough for are not portable, and generally need their own power source anyway.

But if the power delivery had gone the other way, TB would have been a really useful feature. Imagine docking your laptop by just plugging in the TB cable. You're done.

The TB designers messed up. Completely.

Anybody who thinks that the computer should power the display (rather than the other way around) is a moron.

Linus
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TopicPosted ByDate
Implications of Broadwell packaging?Paul A. Clayton12/03/12 10:36 AM
  Implications of Broadwell packaging?Ricardo B12/03/12 11:22 AM
    Implications of Broadwell packaging?Doug S12/03/12 04:18 PM
  Remanufacturing BGAsRicardo B12/03/12 11:26 AM
    Inherent difficulty/cost?Paul A. Clayton12/03/12 11:47 AM
      Inherent difficulty/cost?Gabriele Svelto12/03/12 12:12 PM
        Remanufacturing != manufacturingPaul A. Clayton12/03/12 08:19 PM
          Remanufacturing != manufacturingGabriele Svelto12/04/12 04:01 AM
            Replace is too much cheaper than repairPaul A. Clayton12/04/12 10:51 AM
              Replace is too much cheaper than repairDoug S12/04/12 01:15 PM
                I agree, but ...Paul A. Clayton12/04/12 03:31 PM
                  I agree, but ...Doug S12/04/12 04:49 PM
                    Yes, repairability may just not be practical (NT)Paul A. Clayton12/05/12 06:47 AM
              Replace is too much cheaper than repairGabriele Svelto12/04/12 02:47 PM
                Replace is too much cheaper than repairRicardo B12/04/12 05:08 PM
                Replace is too much cheaper than repairUngo12/04/12 07:04 PM
    Remanufacturing BGAsGabriele Svelto12/03/12 12:16 PM
      Remanufacturing BGAsRicardo B12/04/12 05:31 AM
    Remanufacturing BGAsRichard Cownie12/03/12 02:52 PM
      will fansinks be gone ?Richard Cownie12/03/12 02:56 PM
        will fansinks be gone ?Wouter Tinus12/03/12 03:37 PM
          will fansinks be gone ?Paul12/03/12 04:02 PM
            will fansinks be gone ?Doug S12/03/12 08:03 PM
              will fansinks be gone ?Ungo12/04/12 07:55 PM
                will fansinks be gone ?Doug S12/05/12 11:37 AM
                  will fansinks be gone ?Ricardo B12/05/12 01:47 PM
                    will fansinks be gone ?Doug S12/06/12 12:46 PM
                  will fansinks be gone ?Ungo12/05/12 09:14 PM
                    will fansinks be gone ?Doug S12/06/12 12:46 PM
                      will fansinks be gone ?rwessel12/06/12 01:31 PM
                        will fansinks be gone ?Doug S12/07/12 12:32 PM
            will fansinks be gone ?Gabriele Svelto12/04/12 04:07 AM
            will fanless be the majority?Richard Cownie12/04/12 07:05 PM
              will fanless be the majority?Ricardo B12/05/12 10:29 AM
                will fanless be the majority?Doug S12/05/12 12:25 PM
                will fanless be the majority?Richard Cownie12/06/12 02:26 PM
                  Contained fluid heat sink?Paul A. Clayton12/06/12 05:03 PM
                    Contained fluid heat sink?Sysanon12/06/12 06:02 PM
                      So fanless heatsinks existPaul A. Clayton12/06/12 07:14 PM
                        So fanless heatsinks existRichard Cownie12/06/12 07:21 PM
                  will fanless be the majority?Ricardo B12/06/12 05:14 PM
                    will fanless be the majority?Jukka Larja12/07/12 07:15 AM
                      will fanless be the majority?Salvatore De Dominicis12/11/12 12:54 PM
                will fanless be the majority?bakaneko12/07/12 09:54 AM
          fanless is not commonMax12/03/12 08:21 PM
          will fansinks be gone ?none12/04/12 06:17 AM
        will fansinks be gone ?Ungo12/03/12 03:55 PM
          will fansinks be gone ?Jukka Larja12/04/12 09:02 AM
    Remanufacturing BGAsAnon12/03/12 04:56 PM
    Remanufacturing BGAsMegol12/04/12 12:48 PM
      Remanufacturing BGAsRicardo B12/04/12 05:22 PM
        Remanufacturing BGAsMegol12/06/12 05:15 AM
          Remanufacturing BGAsRicardo B12/07/12 09:32 AM
  Implications of Broadwell packaging?bakaneko12/04/12 09:28 AM
    Implications of Broadwell packaging?Gabriele Svelto12/04/12 09:41 AM
      future of workstationsbakaneko12/04/12 11:24 AM
        future of workstationsGabriele Svelto12/04/12 02:45 PM
          correctionGabriele Svelto12/04/12 06:39 PM
      Implications of Broadwell packaging?David Kanter12/17/12 08:27 PM
        Implications of Broadwell packaging?Doug S12/17/12 09:14 PM
          Implications of Broadwell packaging?Soupdragon12/18/12 03:03 AM
            Implications of Broadwell packaging?Gabriele Svelto12/18/12 03:08 AM
              Implications of Broadwell packaging?Megol12/18/12 10:00 AM
          Xeons for desktop.Jouni Osmala12/18/12 08:27 AM
            Xeons for desktop.Kevin G12/18/12 10:40 AM
              Xeons for desktop.Michael S12/18/12 03:59 PM
                Xeons for desktop.Kevin G12/20/12 11:28 AM
        Eliminating almost all desktop SKUsDoug S12/18/12 01:24 PM
          Eliminating almost all desktop SKUsRicardo B12/19/12 04:08 AM
            Why the need for trust?Paul A. Clayton12/19/12 09:16 AM
              Wicked! But technially feasible IMHO. (NT)Ricardo B12/19/12 09:43 AM
          Eliminating almost all desktop SKUsDavid Kanter12/19/12 08:53 AM
      Implications of Broadwell packaging?Michael S12/18/12 05:09 AM
    Implications of Broadwell packaging?Doug S12/04/12 01:27 PM
    Implications of Broadwell packaging?Ricardo B12/04/12 05:27 PM
  Why not usable as pins?uh12/05/12 11:42 AM
    Why not usable as pins?Ricardo B12/05/12 01:53 PM
      Why not usable as pins?Salvatore De Dominicis12/06/12 06:52 AM
  Implications of Broadwell packaging?Michael S12/18/12 09:40 AM
    Implications of Broadwell packaging?EduardoS12/18/12 09:46 AM
      Implications of Broadwell packaging?Jukka Larja12/18/12 10:53 AM
        Implications of Broadwell packaging?Doug S12/18/12 01:04 PM
          Missing the pointDavid Kanter12/18/12 03:44 PM
            Missing the pointrwessel12/18/12 04:23 PM
            Missing the pointDoug S12/18/12 04:48 PM
            On package memory.Jouni Osmala12/18/12 11:20 PM
            Missing the pointRohit12/19/12 12:17 PM
              Missing the pointDavid Kanter12/19/12 03:15 PM
          Implications of Broadwell packaging?Michael S12/19/12 03:34 AM
            Benefits of on package memoryPaul A. Clayton12/19/12 10:06 AM
              Benefits of on package memoryMichael S12/19/12 10:46 AM
                Maturing NUMA managementPaul A. Clayton12/19/12 01:35 PM
                  Maturing NUMA managementrwessel12/19/12 02:49 PM
                    Distributed vs. hierarchical NUMAPaul A. Clayton12/19/12 07:30 PM
                      Distributed vs. hierarchical NUMArwessel12/19/12 11:11 PM
                        Distributed vs. hierarchical NUMAMichael S12/20/12 03:22 AM
              Benefits of on package memoryJacob Marley12/28/12 03:28 AM
                Cache vs. scratchpad tradeoffsPaul A. Clayton12/28/12 11:57 AM
          Implications of Broadwell packaging?Ricardo B12/19/12 04:32 AM
            Implications of Broadwell packaging?Doug S12/19/12 10:50 AM
              Implications of Broadwell packaging?rwessel12/19/12 11:40 AM
                Bigger implies more powerful?Paul A. Clayton12/19/12 12:50 PM
                  Bigger implies more powerful?rwessel12/19/12 02:47 PM
                    SFF for businessPaul A. Clayton12/19/12 08:14 PM
                      SFF for businessrwessel12/19/12 11:47 PM
                  Bigger implies more powerful?Jouni Osmala12/19/12 03:15 PM
                    Bigger implies more powerful?Doug S12/19/12 04:19 PM
                      Bigger implies more powerful?rwessel12/20/12 12:02 AM
          Implications of Broadwell packaging?Jukka Larja12/19/12 11:49 AM
            Implications of Broadwell packaging?Ricardo B12/19/12 06:35 PM
              Implications of Broadwell packaging?rwessel12/20/12 12:43 AM
              Implications of Broadwell packaging?Doug S12/20/12 12:43 AM
                Implications of Broadwell packaging?Michael S12/20/12 03:46 AM
                  Implications of Broadwell packaging?Doug S12/20/12 08:37 PM
                    Implications of Broadwell packaging?Jukka Larja12/21/12 02:56 AM
                    Implications of Broadwell packaging?mpx12/22/12 04:31 AM
                      Implications of Broadwell packaging?Doug S12/22/12 02:34 PM
                Implications of Broadwell packaging?Ungo12/20/12 07:13 PM
                Implications of Broadwell packaging?Linus Torvalds12/20/12 07:46 PM
                  Implications of Broadwell packaging?Doug S12/20/12 09:33 PM
                    Implications of Broadwell packaging?bakaneko12/21/12 06:33 AM
                  Thunderbolt powerRicardo B12/21/12 07:46 AM
                    Thunderbolt powerLinus Torvalds12/21/12 08:42 AM
                      Thunderbolt powerRicardo B12/21/12 09:57 AM
                        Thunderbolt powerDoug S12/21/12 03:53 PM
                          Thunderbolt powersoupnoforyou12/21/12 04:54 PM
                          Thunderbolt powerbakaneko12/21/12 05:20 PM
                            Thunderbolt powerrwessel12/22/12 02:36 AM
                              Thunderbolt powerbakaneko12/22/12 08:00 AM
                          Thunderbolt powerRicardo B12/22/12 06:43 AM
                        Thunderbolt powerLinus Torvalds12/21/12 06:04 PM
                          Thunderbolt powerRicardo B12/22/12 07:13 AM
                            Thunderbolt powerLinus Torvalds12/22/12 10:54 AM
                              Thunderbolt powerRicardo B12/22/12 03:56 PM
                    Thunderbolt powerRohit12/21/12 10:26 AM
                  Implications of Broadwell packaging?gallier212/21/12 08:01 AM
                  Implications of Broadwell packaging?Groo12/22/12 12:13 PM
                  Thunderbolt powerC. Ladisch01/08/13 01:54 AM
            Implications of Broadwell packaging?Anon12/20/12 03:10 PM
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