SLC vs. MLC

By: Joern Engel (joern.delete@this.logfs.org), January 6, 2009 2:24 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Linus Torvalds (torvalds@linux-foundation.org) on 1/6/09 wrote:
>
>The only sane flash model is one where the hardware itself
>does the block remapping.
>
>And no, this is not about "most filesystems" or about any
>majority voting. It's a simple technical fact.
>
>The simple fact is that exposing the internal flash
>model to any external software is simply insane. You'd
>never suggest that software should know about the exact
>details of RAM DIMM addressing, and know about open
>pages and the size and organization of banks.
>
>Anybody today realizes that that would be total insanity,
>and that you have a DRAM controller that does all that
>in hardware. Yes, it will have a software component to it
>to set things up, but even that component is effectively
>hidden and done automatically. Not even system software
>really ever needs to know.

Except that certain system software defines constants like L1_CACHE_BYTES. I
wonder what those are all about. ;)

No doubt, devices need some abstraction that is reasonably sane and hides
everything that makes this particular device special. However, I doubt
it makes sense to hide things that are special to every single device - which
would make them rather generic.

Everyone agrees that hard disks are block devices, not byte devices. If you
decided to write byte-aligned to a hard disks, you would get problems as well.
And noone is complaining about those. Limiting the devices to sector-aligned
writes was useful, because it made devices simpler and didn't hurt upper layers
(filesystems, etc.) too much.

Now, if you add further limitations like larger blocks (or sectors if you prefer
a different name) or a requirement for wear leveling of some sort, that may be a
decent tradeoff. It definitely makes life harder on upper layers, particularly
because they have decades of tuning to the hard disk model. But it makes life
simpler for the device. And it may even aid performance.

Of of my main gripes with SSDs is that they are trying to be too smart. If I
write 2k to raw flash, that 2k write is sufficient. If the power fails
immediately after it, the data is still there (ignoring the bogosities of MLC
flash with "paired pages"). Add the controller logic and you either have to
write a full eraseblock for the crap controllers.

Or you have a smarter controller that implements basically a very simple
filesystem (containing exactly one file of fixed size). Now you have to pass
the equivalent of fsync() to the device, which will trigger at least one more
write. Lacking an interface for fsync(), the device has three options that I
can see. Either it conservatively syncs after every single write, and wasts
performance. Or it delays command completion for a while, increasing latency.
Or it tries to second-guess and you occasionally lose data before a power
failure.

And even in the good case, you usually put a filesystem on top of the flash,
which does logical->physical mapping, then pass the data to the controller which
does logical->physical mapping again. And unlike hard disks the mapping is not
n:n in the normal case with a fairly short list of exceptions, but essentially
random.

So my gut feeling is that we can do a better job overall if the SSDs would get
dumber and the storage layer would get smarter. It requires work, no doubt.
But we can do better than the SSD can, because we can avoid double work and have
more information than some SATA device with a 32-entry window of outstanding
requests.

Not that I'd consider UBI a good approach of doing do, mind you.
< Previous Post in ThreadNext Post in Thread >
TopicPosted ByDate
First Dunnington benchmark resultsMichael S08/19/08 09:54 AM
  First Dunnington benchmark resultsrwessel08/19/08 12:42 PM
    First Dunnington benchmark resultsAaron Apink08/19/08 04:49 PM
      First Dunnington benchmark resultsJoe Chang08/19/08 05:28 PM
        First Dunnington benchmark resultsrwessel08/21/08 08:49 AM
          First Dunnington benchmark resultsJoe Chang08/21/08 02:10 PM
            First Dunnington benchmark resultsrwessel08/21/08 05:42 PM
              First Dunnington benchmark resultsJoe Chang08/21/08 06:12 PM
      First Dunnington benchmark resultsrwessel08/21/08 08:45 AM
        First Dunnington benchmark resultsAaron Spink08/21/08 12:12 PM
          First Dunnington benchmark resultsJoe Chang08/21/08 02:15 PM
    First Dunnington benchmark resultsRichard Cownie08/20/08 01:59 AM
      First Dunnington benchmark resultsAnders Jensen08/20/08 02:26 AM
        +SSDAnders Jensen08/20/08 02:30 AM
        First Dunnington benchmark resultsRichard Cownie08/20/08 10:04 AM
          First Dunnington benchmark resultsslacker08/20/08 11:35 AM
            First Dunnington benchmark resultsDoug Siebert08/20/08 06:54 PM
              First Dunnington benchmark resultsRichard Cownie08/20/08 07:58 PM
                SLC vs. MLCDavid Kanter08/21/08 12:16 AM
                  SLC vs. MLCMatt Sayler08/21/08 05:25 AM
                  SLC vs. MLCRichard Cownie08/21/08 05:32 AM
                    SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds08/21/08 07:39 AM
                      SLC vs. MLCMichael S08/21/08 08:07 AM
                        SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds08/21/08 08:52 AM
                          SLC vs. MLCMichael S08/21/08 09:35 AM
                            OLTP appliance = mainframe? (NT)Potatoswatter08/21/08 10:44 AM
                              OLTP appliance = HP NonStop?Michael S08/21/08 11:03 AM
                                OLTP applianceJoe Chang08/21/08 02:33 PM
                                  OLTP appliancePotatoswatter08/21/08 02:59 PM
                            SLC vs. MLCAaron Spink08/21/08 12:29 PM
                          SLC vs. MLCDan Downs08/21/08 10:33 AM
                            SLC vs. MLCrwessel08/21/08 11:45 AM
                              SLC vs. MLCDan Downs08/22/08 07:21 AM
                            SLC vs. MLCAaron Spink08/21/08 12:34 PM
                          SLC vs. MLC vs DRAMpgerassi08/21/08 11:24 AM
                            SLC vs. MLC vs DRAMDavid Kanter08/22/08 12:31 AM
                          SLC vs. MLCGroo08/23/08 11:52 AM
                      SLC vs. MLCDoug Siebert08/21/08 05:14 PM
                        SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds08/22/08 07:05 AM
                          SLC vs. MLCDoug Siebert08/22/08 01:27 PM
                            SLC vs. MLCEduardoS08/22/08 05:26 PM
                            SSD Controller differentiationDavid Kanter08/22/08 08:35 PM
                              SSD Controller differentiationDoug Siebert08/22/08 09:34 PM
                                SSD Controller differentiation (supercaps, cost...)anon08/23/08 09:18 AM
                                  SSD Controller differentiation (supercaps, cost...)Doug Siebert08/23/08 09:40 AM
                            SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds08/23/08 09:50 AM
                              SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds09/08/08 11:03 AM
                                SLC vs. MLCMax09/08/08 12:51 PM
                                  SLC vs. MLCHoward Chu09/08/08 08:04 PM
                                    SLC vs. MLCMax09/08/08 09:29 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCHoward Chu09/08/08 11:12 PM
                                        RAM vs SSD?Jouni Osmala09/09/08 12:06 AM
                                          RAM vs SSD?Max09/12/08 11:51 AM
                                            RAM vs SSD?EduardoS09/12/08 03:27 PM
                                            Disk cache snapshottingMax09/13/08 07:34 AM
                                              Disk cache snapshottingHoward Chu09/14/08 08:58 PM
                                                Disk cache snapshottingMax09/15/08 11:50 AM
                                        SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds09/09/08 06:43 AM
                                          SLC vs. MLCHoward Chu09/09/08 08:42 AM
                                            SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds09/09/08 09:39 AM
                                              SLC vs. MLCMichael S09/09/08 11:29 PM
                                                SLC vs. MLCanon09/10/08 01:51 AM
                                                  SLC vs. MLCMichael S09/10/08 02:09 AM
                                                    SLC vs. MLCMax09/10/08 03:48 AM
                                                      SLC vs. MLCMichael S09/10/08 04:52 AM
                                                        SLC vs. MLCMax09/10/08 05:28 AM
                                                    SLC vs. MLCMatt Sayler09/10/08 05:21 AM
                                                      SLC vs. MLCMichael S09/10/08 08:17 AM
                                                    SLC vs. MLCanon09/10/08 05:29 AM
                                                      SLC vs. MLCMichael S09/10/08 08:23 AM
                                                        SLC vs. MLCMatt Sayler09/10/08 09:45 AM
                                                SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds09/10/08 06:25 AM
                                                  SLC vs. MLCMichael S09/10/08 08:54 AM
                                                    SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds09/10/08 09:31 AM
                                                      Physical vs effective write latencyMax09/11/08 06:35 AM
                                                        Physical vs effective write latencyLinus Torvalds09/11/08 08:06 AM
                                                          Physical vs effective write latencyLinus Torvalds09/11/08 08:48 AM
                                                            Physical vs effective write latencyLinus Torvalds09/11/08 10:39 AM
                                                              Physical vs effective write latencyMark Roulo09/11/08 11:18 AM
                                                                Physical vs effective write latencyDoug Siebert09/11/08 04:59 PM
                                                                  Physical vs effective write latencyLinus Torvalds09/11/08 06:16 PM
                                                                    Physical vs effective write latencyDoug Siebert09/11/08 09:28 PM
                                                        Physical vs effective write latencyMS02/03/09 02:06 PM
                                                  SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyAnonymous09/11/08 11:39 AM
                                                    SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyanon09/11/08 12:17 PM
                                                      SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyAnonymous09/11/08 04:25 PM
                                                        SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyDoug Siebert09/11/08 04:47 PM
                                                          SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyrwessel09/11/08 05:01 PM
                                                        SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyanon09/11/08 11:00 PM
                                                          SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyAnonymous09/12/08 07:52 PM
                                                            SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyanon09/13/08 09:06 AM
                                                            SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyUngo09/15/08 11:18 AM
                                                              To SSD or not? One lady's perspectiveDavid Kanter09/22/08 12:12 AM
                                                                To SSD or not? One lady's perspectiveHoward Chu09/22/08 03:02 AM
                                                                  To SSD or not? Real data..Linus Torvalds09/22/08 06:33 AM
                                                                    To SSD or not? Real data..Ungo09/22/08 11:27 AM
                                                                      4K sectorsWes Felter09/22/08 05:03 PM
                                                                        4K sectorsDaniel09/22/08 09:31 PM
                                                                      Reasons for >512 byte sectorsDoug Siebert09/22/08 08:38 PM
                                                                        Reasons for >512 byte sectorsrwessel09/22/08 09:09 PM
                                                                          Reasons for >512 byte sectorsHoward Chu09/23/08 01:50 AM
                                                                        Reasons for >512 byte sectorsDaniel09/22/08 09:40 PM
                                                                          Reasons for >512 byte sectorsrwessel09/23/08 08:11 AM
                                                                            Reasons for >512 byte sectorsDaniel09/23/08 11:10 AM
                                                                      HDD long sector size availabilityEtienne Lehnart09/23/08 04:32 AM
                                                                        HDD long sector size availabilityrwessel09/23/08 08:19 AM
                                                                          HDD long sector size availabilityEtienne Lehnart09/23/08 01:17 PM
                                                                    To SSD or not? Real data..Jouni Osmala09/22/08 10:16 PM
                                                                  To SSD or not? One lady's perspectiveWes Felter09/22/08 10:25 AM
                                                                How should SSDs be engineered into systems?Rob Thorpe09/22/08 01:01 PM
                                                                  How should SSDs be engineered into systems?Matt Craighead09/23/08 05:59 PM
                                                                    How should SSDs be engineered into systems?Matt Sayler09/24/08 03:17 AM
                                                            ATA/SCSIS, Write Flushes and Asych FilesystemsTruePath01/25/09 03:44 AM
                                                        SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyMichael S09/12/08 03:58 AM
                                                        overlapped erase and read Michael S09/12/08 03:59 AM
                                                          overlapped erase and read David W. Hess09/12/08 08:56 AM
                                                          overlapped erase and read Anonymous09/12/08 07:45 PM
                                                            overlapped erase and read Jouni Osmala09/12/08 10:56 PM
                                                            overlapped erase and read Michael S09/13/08 10:29 AM
                                                            overlapped erase and read Michael S09/13/08 11:09 AM
                                                              overlapped erase and read Linus Torvalds09/13/08 01:05 PM
                                                    SLC vs. MLC - the trick to latencyDoug Siebert09/11/08 04:31 PM
                                SLC vs. MLCEduardoS09/08/08 01:07 PM
                                  SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds09/08/08 01:30 PM
                                    SLC vs. MLCEduardoS09/08/08 03:01 PM
                                      SSD and RAIDJoe Chang09/08/08 06:42 PM
                                        SSD and RAIDDoug Siebert09/08/08 08:46 PM
                                          SSD and RAIDAaron Spink09/09/08 03:27 PM
                                            SSD and RAIDGroo09/10/08 12:02 PM
                              SLC vs. MLCJoern Engel01/06/09 09:22 AM
                                SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds01/06/09 01:04 PM
                                  SLC vs. MLCJoern Engel01/06/09 02:24 PM
                                    SLC vs. MLCrwessel01/06/09 03:47 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCanonymous01/06/09 04:17 PM
                                        SLC vs. MLCrwessel01/06/09 04:58 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCJoern Engel01/06/09 11:35 PM
                                    SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds01/06/09 04:45 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCrwessel01/06/09 05:09 PM
                                        SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds01/06/09 06:47 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCJoern Engel01/06/09 11:26 PM
                                    SLC vs. MLCanon01/06/09 07:23 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCJoern Engel01/06/09 11:52 PM
                                        SLC vs. MLCanon01/07/09 01:34 AM
                                  SLC vs. MLCIntelUser200001/07/09 06:43 AM
                                    SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds01/07/09 09:28 AM
                                      drop data filesystem semanticDoug Siebert01/09/09 11:21 AM
                                      FTL and FSiz01/09/09 06:49 PM
                                        FTL and FSLinus Torvalds01/09/09 08:53 PM
                                          FTL and FSiz01/10/09 01:09 AM
                                            FTL and FSMichael S01/10/09 02:19 PM
                                              compiling large programsiz01/10/09 04:51 PM
                                                compiling large programsLinus Torvalds01/10/09 06:58 PM
                                                  compiling large programspeter01/11/09 04:30 AM
                                                  compiling large programsAndi Kleen01/11/09 12:03 PM
                                                  The File AbstractionTruePath01/25/09 05:45 AM
                                                    The File AbstractionHoward Chu01/25/09 12:49 PM
                                                      The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds01/26/09 08:23 AM
                                                        The File AbstractionMichael S01/26/09 12:39 PM
                                                          The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds01/26/09 01:31 PM
                                                            The File AbstractionDean Kent01/26/09 02:06 PM
                                                              The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds01/26/09 03:29 PM
                                                                The File AbstractionMark Christiansen01/27/09 08:24 AM
                                                                  The File AbstractionMark Christiansen01/27/09 09:14 AM
                                                                  The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds01/27/09 09:15 AM
                                                                    The File Abstractionslacker01/27/09 10:20 AM
                                                                      The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds01/27/09 12:16 PM
                                                                        Attributes All The Way DownMark Christiansen01/27/09 01:17 PM
                                                                        The File Abstractionslacker01/27/09 04:25 PM
                                                                          The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds01/28/09 07:17 AM
                                                                            The File Abstraction: API thoughtsCarlie Coats01/28/09 08:35 AM
                                                                            The File Abstractionslacker01/28/09 09:09 AM
                                                                              The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds01/28/09 12:44 PM
                                                                                Programs already 'hide' their metadata in the bytestream, unbeknownst to usersanon01/28/09 08:28 PM
                                                                                The File Abstractionslacker01/29/09 09:39 AM
                                                                                  The File AbstractionLinus Torvalds01/29/09 10:08 AM
                                                                                    The File AbstractionDean Kent01/29/09 10:49 AM
                                                                                      The File AbstractionHoward Chu01/29/09 01:58 PM
                                                                                        The File Abstractionrwessel01/29/09 03:23 PM
                                                                                    Extended Attributes in Actionslacker01/29/09 02:05 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in Actionstubar01/29/09 03:49 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in ActionLinus Torvalds01/29/09 04:15 PM
                                                                                        Like Duhanon01/29/09 06:42 PM
                                                                                          Like Duhanon01/29/09 08:15 PM
                                                                                            Like Duhanon02/01/09 06:18 PM
                                                                                              Double Duh.Anonymous02/01/09 09:58 PM
                                                                                                Double Duh.anon02/02/09 01:08 AM
                                                                                                  Double Duh.Anonymous02/02/09 04:11 PM
                                                                                                    Double Duh.anon02/02/09 06:33 PM
                                                                                              Like DuhDavid Kanter02/01/09 10:05 PM
                                                                                                Like Duhpeter02/01/09 10:55 PM
                                                                                                Like Duhanon02/02/09 12:55 AM
                                                                                                Xattrs, Solar power, regulation and politicsRob Thorpe02/02/09 03:36 AM
                                                                                                  Terminology seems too fuzzy to mehobold02/02/09 05:14 AM
                                                                                                    Terminology seems too fuzzy to merwessel02/02/09 11:33 AM
                                                                                                      good summaryMichael S02/03/09 01:41 AM
                                                                                                        good summaryMark Christiansen02/03/09 08:57 AM
                                                                                                          good summaryHoward Chu02/03/09 09:21 AM
                                                                                                            good summaryMark Christiansen02/03/09 10:18 AM
                                                                                                              good summaryHoward Chu02/03/09 11:00 AM
                                                                                                                good summaryMark Christiansen02/03/09 11:36 AM
                                                                                                          good summaryRagingDragon02/03/09 09:39 PM
                                                                                                            good summaryrwessel02/03/09 10:03 PM
                                                                                                              good summaryRagingDragon02/03/09 10:46 PM
                                                                                                      Terminology seems too fuzzy to meslacker02/04/09 04:06 PM
                                                                                                        Terminology seems too fuzzy to meMichael S02/05/09 12:05 AM
                                                                                                          Terminology seems too fuzzy to meUngo02/05/09 12:15 PM
                                                                                                          Terminology seems too fuzzy to meslacker02/05/09 01:19 PM
                                                                                                            Terminology seems too fuzzy to meHoward Chu02/05/09 03:44 PM
                                                                                          Like Duhiz01/30/09 01:03 AM
                                                                                          EAs (security labels) hosed me badlyanon01/30/09 08:48 PM
                                                                                        Extended Attributes in ActionRagingDragon01/29/09 08:31 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in Actionanonymous01/29/09 07:13 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in ActionHoward Chu01/29/09 08:38 PM
                                                                                        Extended Attributes in Actionslacker01/30/09 10:24 AM
                                                                                          Extended Attributes in Actionanon01/30/09 04:50 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in ActionEtienne Lehnart01/29/09 11:22 PM
                                                                                      Extended Attributes in ActionRob Thorpe01/30/09 11:39 AM
                                                                                        Extended Attributes in Actionslacker01/30/09 12:16 PM
                                                                                          Extended Attributes in Actionanon01/30/09 05:03 PM
                                                                                          Extended Attributes in ActionHoward Chu01/30/09 10:22 PM
                                                                                            Extended Attributes in Actionrwessel01/30/09 11:08 PM
                                                                                              Extended Attributes in Actionanonymous01/30/09 11:22 PM
                                                                                                Extended Attributes in Actionrwessel01/30/09 11:56 PM
                                                                                                  ScalingDean Kent01/31/09 08:04 AM
                                                                                                    ScalingRob Thorpe02/02/09 01:39 AM
                                                                                                      Scalingrwessel02/02/09 10:41 AM
                                                                                                        ScalingHoward Chu02/02/09 11:30 AM
                                                                                                          ScalingDean Kent02/02/09 01:27 PM
                                                                                                            ScalingRob Thorpe02/03/09 04:08 AM
                                                                                                              ScalingDean Kent02/03/09 06:38 AM
                                                                                                              Scalingrwessel02/03/09 01:34 PM
                                                                                                                ScalingRagingDragon02/03/09 09:46 PM
                                                                                                    in defense of software that does not scaleMatt Sayler02/03/09 10:27 AM
                                                                                                      in defense of software that does not scaleHoward Chu02/03/09 11:03 AM
                                                                                                        in defense of software that does not scaleMatt Sayler02/03/09 11:17 AM
                                                                                                        in defense of software that does not scaleRagingDragon02/03/09 10:00 PM
                                                                                                          in defense of software that does not scaleMichael S02/04/09 05:46 AM
                                                                                                            in defense of software that does not scaleRagingDragon02/04/09 08:33 PM
                                                                                                      in defense of software that does not scaleDean Kent02/03/09 11:17 AM
                                                                                                        in defense of software that does not scaleMatt Sayler02/03/09 11:24 AM
                                                                                                        in defense of software that does not scaleVincent Diepeveen02/04/09 09:43 AM
                                                                                                      in defense of software that does not scalerwessel02/03/09 01:44 PM
                                                                                                        in defense of software that does not scaleanon02/04/09 01:35 AM
                                                                                                          in defense of software that does not scaleCarlie Coats02/04/09 04:24 AM
                                                                                                      Scaling with time vs. scaling from the beginning.mpx02/05/09 12:57 AM
                                                                                                  Extended Attributes in ActionMichael S01/31/09 09:33 AM
                                                                                                  Extended Attributes in Actionanon01/31/09 09:37 PM
                                                                                          Extended Attributes in ActionJasonB01/31/09 07:11 AM
                                                                                            Extended Attributes in ActionHoward Chu01/31/09 10:43 AM
                                                                                              Extended Attributes in ActionJasonB01/31/09 03:37 PM
                                                                                                Extended Attributes in ActionHoward Chu02/02/09 01:42 PM
                                                                                                  Extended Attributes in ActionHoward Chu02/02/09 01:44 PM
                                                                    The File AbstractionRob Thorpe01/27/09 10:20 AM
                                                              The File AbstractionHoward Chu01/26/09 11:28 PM
                                                                The File AbstractionMichael S01/27/09 02:00 AM
                                                                The File AbstractionDean Kent01/27/09 07:30 AM
                                                        The File AbstractionAndi Kleen01/27/09 01:05 AM
                                  SLC vs. MLCMichel01/12/09 05:54 PM
                                    SLC vs. MLCLinus Torvalds01/12/09 06:38 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCrwessel01/12/09 11:52 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCUngo01/13/09 02:04 PM
                                        SLC vs. MLCWes Felter01/13/09 04:42 PM
                                      SLC vs. MLCTruePath01/25/09 04:05 AM
                    SLC vs. MLCUngo08/21/08 11:54 AM
                    SLC vs. MLCAaron Spink08/21/08 12:20 PM
                  MLC vs. SLCMichael S08/21/08 07:57 AM
                First Dunnington benchmark resultsrwessel08/21/08 09:40 AM
              First Dunnington benchmark resultsAaron Spink08/21/08 02:18 AM
      First Dunnington benchmark resultsEtienne Lehnart08/20/08 03:38 AM
  Will x86 dominate big iron?Tom W08/19/08 09:10 PM
    Will x86 dominate big iron?Jesper Frimann08/19/08 11:28 PM
      Will x86 dominate big iron?Tom W08/20/08 02:42 PM
        Will x86 dominate big iron?David Kanter08/21/08 12:13 AM
          Will x86 dominate big iron?Joe Chang08/21/08 05:54 AM
            Will x86 dominate big iron?asdf08/22/08 12:18 PM
              Will x86 dominate big iron?Dean Kent08/22/08 06:54 PM
        Will x86 dominate big iron?Jesper Frimann08/22/08 08:48 AM
          Will x86 dominate big iron?Tom W08/24/08 12:06 AM
            Will x86 dominate big iron?Michael S08/24/08 03:19 AM
              Will x86 dominate big iron?Dean Kent08/24/08 08:30 AM
                Will x86 dominate big iron?Paul08/24/08 10:16 AM
                  Will x86 dominate big iron?Dean Kent08/24/08 11:37 AM
                Will x86 dominate big iron?Michael S08/24/08 11:53 PM
        Will x86 dominate big iron?someone08/22/08 09:19 AM
          Will x86 dominate big iron?aaron spink08/23/08 01:56 AM
            Will x86 dominate big iron?Michael S08/23/08 08:58 AM
              Will x86 dominate big iron?someone08/23/08 12:51 PM
            Will x86 dominate big iron?someone08/23/08 12:55 PM
              Will x86 dominate big iron?Aaron Spink08/23/08 03:52 PM
                Will x86 dominate big iron?anonymous08/23/08 04:28 PM
                  Will x86 dominate big iron?Dean Kent08/23/08 05:12 PM
                    Off road and topicEduardoS08/23/08 05:28 PM
                  Will x86 dominate big iron?someone08/23/08 05:26 PM
                    Will x86 dominate big iron?Dean Kent08/23/08 08:40 PM
                    Will x86 dominate big iron?anonymous08/24/08 12:46 AM
                  Off road and topicDavid W. Hess08/24/08 02:24 AM
                    Off road and topicAaron Spink08/24/08 03:14 AM
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How do you spell green?