CPU lineup != GPU lineup

Article: Parallelism at HotPar 2010
By: Richard Cownie (tich.delete@this.pobox.com), August 5, 2010 7:12 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Rohit (@.) on 8/5/10 wrote:
---------------------------

>Taping out multiple chips with different core counts/caches from a same architecture,
>is a relatively novel phenomena. I am pretty sure that in RISC days, the variety was much lower.
>
>OTOH, in a gpu line up there are typically 4-5 chips in a generation. The lowest
>end ones typically receive the least R&D effort and are released at the end.

This is another way that CPU's have become more like GPU's:
nowadays you develop a core architecture, but make at
least 4 variants with different core counts: a single-core
for cheap or power-constrained laptops, a dual-core for
mainstream laptops and desktops, a quad-core for power
users, and a hex-core. And then there are differences at
the higher end between high-clocked desktop/workstation
chips and throughput-oriented server chips as well.

With Atom and soon Bobcat, there are going to be
specialized low-power core designs at the bottom end.
But then the high end is going to get higher, so we're
probably going to have chips with 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 8
cores.

>So from purely the R&D perspective, the NRE is relatively >low on the <$100 card market.

But that's a fiction. You had to spend a ton of money
to develop the GPU architecture and the drivers. You can
mess around with the accounting in various subjective ways,
but if that money wasn't spent then you couldn't sell
those low-end cards.

>I guess what I am trying to say is that GPUs are not going to vanish from the HPC
>market even if nobody writes HPC codes for them. RISCs had nothing like that going for them.

Oh, I agree. They're not going to vanish. They're very
good at some apps. And even if the speedup is only 3x
or 5x rather than 80x, if it makes the difference between
needing a $50M machine vs a $15M machine then it's
quite handy. But are they going to dominate HPC - say,
in the way that Cray's vector machines did in the late
1970s, early 1980s ? I think not. And are the GPUs
that go in those HPC compute farms going to be discrete
GPUs on separate (PCIe or whatever) cards ? Or are they
going to be whatever GPU-like hardware gets integrated
onto AMD and Intel cpu+gpu chips ?

Of course a discrete GPU chip can be bigger and hotter
and can have more DRAM bandwidth. But I'm not sure that
the strategy of building the GPU as a huge chip on a foundry
process will beat the strategy of building the GPU as
half of a huge chip in a more advanced CPU process, with
less bandwidth to memory but higher bandwidth to the cpu.

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TopicPosted ByDate
Tarek's Hotpar 2010 article onlineDavid Kanter2010/07/27 07:29 AM
  Tarek's Hotpar 2010 article onlineAnon2010/07/27 01:57 PM
    Tarek's Hotpar 2010 article onlineDavid Kanter2010/07/27 10:48 PM
      Tarek's Hotpar 2010 article onlineAnon2010/07/28 02:44 PM
        Tarek's Hotpar 2010 article onlineanon2010/07/28 04:10 PM
        CPU+GPUDavid Kanter2010/07/29 11:38 AM
          CPU+GPUMark Christiansen2010/07/30 06:36 AM
            CPU+GPUhobold2010/07/30 06:54 AM
              CPU+GPUGabriele Svelto2010/07/30 07:18 AM
                CPU+GPUhobold2010/07/30 02:46 PM
              CPU+GPUAaron Spink2010/08/02 05:32 PM
                CPU+GPUhobold2010/08/03 03:33 AM
                  CPU+GPURicardo B2010/08/03 04:19 AM
            CPU+GPU - the software problemVincent Diepeveen2010/07/31 04:50 PM
              CPU+GPU - the software problemmpx2010/08/02 11:19 AM
                CPU+GPU - the software problemRichard Cownie2010/08/02 12:48 PM
                  CPU+GPU - the software problemGabriele Svelto2010/08/02 11:10 PM
                    CPU+GPU - the software problemhobold2010/08/03 03:41 AM
                      CPU+GPU - the software problemRichard Cownie2010/08/03 05:17 AM
                        CPU+GPU - the software problemhobold2010/08/04 06:45 AM
                          NVidia in a holeRichard Cownie2010/08/04 07:23 AM
                            NVidia in a holeRohit2010/08/04 07:33 AM
                              NVidia in a holeRichard Cownie2010/08/04 07:50 AM
                                NVidia in a holeRohit2010/08/05 06:31 AM
                                  NVidia in a holeGroo2010/08/05 01:08 PM
                                NVidia in a holeGroo2010/08/05 01:07 PM
                              NVidia in a holeMark Roulo2010/08/04 08:26 AM
                                NVidia in a holeLaughabee2010/08/18 07:28 AM
                            Can nVidia survive without a sub-$100 GPU market?Mark Roulo2010/08/04 08:29 AM
                              Can nVidia survive without a sub-$100 GPU market?Richard Cownie2010/08/04 08:42 AM
                                Can nVidia survive without a sub-$100 GPU market?Mark Roulo2010/08/04 08:55 AM
                                  Can nVidia survive without a sub-$100 GPU market?Linus Torvalds2010/08/04 10:35 AM
                                    "profit" is subjectiveRichard Cownie2010/08/04 10:49 AM
                                      "profit" is subjectivea reader2010/08/06 03:54 AM
                                        no price warRichard Cownie2010/08/06 06:18 AM
                                  Can nVidia survive without a sub-$100 GPU market?Aaron Spink2010/08/04 11:19 AM
                                  Can nVidia survive without a sub-$100 GPU market?Konrad Schwarz2010/08/06 07:13 AM
                                CPU lineup != GPU lineupRohit2010/08/05 06:43 AM
                                  CPU lineup != GPU lineupRichard Cownie2010/08/05 07:12 AM
                                    CPU lineup != GPU lineupRohit2010/08/05 07:37 AM
                                      CPU lineup != GPU lineupRichard Cownie2010/08/05 07:56 AM
                                        CPU lineup != GPU lineupRohit2010/08/05 10:19 AM
                                          CPU lineup != GPU lineuphobold2010/08/06 03:08 AM
                                            CPU lineup != GPU lineupRohit2010/08/06 06:24 AM
                                              CPU lineup != GPU lineuphobold2010/08/06 06:41 AM
                              Can nVidia survive without a sub-$100 GPU market?David Hess2010/08/04 10:31 AM
                              Can nVidia survive without a sub-$100 GPU market?Ricardo B2010/08/04 12:16 PM
                              Semiconductor economicsDavid Kanter2010/08/05 08:13 AM
                                Semiconductor economicsRichard Cownie2010/08/05 08:51 AM
                                  NV buying ViA could shake up thingsRohit2010/08/05 10:09 AM
                                    NV buying ViA could shake up thingsRichard Cownie2010/08/05 10:25 AM
                                      Not likelyDavid Kanter2010/08/05 01:39 PM
                                        Not likelyrandom2010/08/05 01:49 PM
                                          Not likelyAaron Spink2010/08/05 02:18 PM
                                        Not likelyGroo2010/08/05 09:05 PM
                                        Not likelyRohit2010/08/06 06:25 AM
                                    NV buying ViA could shake up thingsGroo2010/08/05 09:02 PM
                                    NV buying ViA could shake up thingsehud2010/08/06 12:53 AM
                                      NV buying ViA could shake up thingsRohit2010/08/06 06:30 AM
                                        NV buying ViA could shake up thingsKevin G2010/08/06 04:54 PM
                                          ViA buying NV could shake up thingsBrendan2010/08/19 05:23 AM
                                        NV buying ViA could shake up thingsGroo2010/08/06 07:24 PM
                            NVidia in a holempx2010/08/04 11:01 AM
                              NVidia in a holeRichard Cownie2010/08/04 11:31 AM
                                NVidia in a holercf2010/08/04 02:40 PM
                              NVidia in a holeRohit2010/08/05 06:51 AM
                              NVidia in a holeGroo2010/08/05 08:50 PM
                              NVidia in a holeAaron Spink2010/08/05 10:52 PM
                          Anyone else wish Intel would buy Nvidia ? (NT)Silent2010/08/07 12:30 AM
                            Hell noa2010/08/07 07:37 PM
                        CPU+GPU - the software problemno thanks2010/08/04 06:54 PM
                          CPU+GPU - the software problemJouni Osmala2010/08/05 12:41 AM
                            CPU+GPU - the software problemIntelUser20002010/08/05 06:54 PM
                              CPU+GPU - the software problemJouni Osmala2010/08/05 08:36 PM
                            CPU+GPU - the software problemLinus Torvalds2010/08/06 07:08 AM
                              CPU+GPU - the software problemanonymous2010/08/06 08:39 AM
                                CPU+GPU - the software problemLinus Torvalds2010/08/06 09:56 AM
                                  non-existent Via+NV vs real OntarioRichard Cownie2010/08/06 11:12 AM
                              CPU+GPU - the software problemkoby m.2010/08/07 01:06 AM
                  CPU+GPU - the software problemhobold2010/08/03 03:48 AM
                CPU+GPU - the software problemhobold2010/08/03 03:45 AM
                  CPU+GPU - the software problemRichard Cownie2010/08/03 05:22 AM
          CPU+GPUAnon2010/07/30 08:11 PM
            CPU+GPUanon2010/07/31 02:19 AM
            CPU+GPUAaron Spink2010/08/02 05:45 PM
          100x speedups -- here we go againAM2010/08/02 12:37 AM
            100x speedups -- here we go againanon2010/08/02 02:32 AM
              100x speedups -- here we go againanon2010/08/02 10:14 PM
            GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPUMark Roulo2010/08/02 08:41 AM
              GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPUMichael S2010/08/02 02:31 PM
                GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPUanon2010/08/02 08:36 PM
                  GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPUMichael S2010/08/02 11:41 PM
                    GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPUMark Roulo2010/08/03 07:22 AM
                      GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPURohit2010/08/04 06:08 AM
                      There is reasonable explanation...Jouni Osmala2010/08/04 09:10 PM
                  GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPUMark Roulo2010/08/03 07:19 AM
              simple reality check for youAM2010/08/03 12:45 AM
                simple reality check for younone2010/08/03 06:27 AM
                  simple reality check for youAM2010/08/03 10:50 PM
                    simple reality check for youanon2010/08/03 11:06 PM
                      simple reality check for youAM2010/08/05 02:51 AM
                        catch the same boat as everyone else next time (NT)anon2010/08/05 03:44 AM
                Simple reality checkDavid Kanter2010/08/03 07:24 AM
                  Simple reality checkGabriele Svelto2010/08/03 09:51 PM
                  Simple reality checkAM2010/08/03 10:57 PM
                    Simple reality checkanon2010/08/03 11:12 PM
                      Simple reality checkAM2010/08/05 02:59 AM
                        Simple reality checkanon2010/08/05 03:47 AM
                          Study the papers, troll (NT)AM2010/08/05 11:01 PM
                    Simple reality checkhobold2010/08/04 04:05 AM
                    Simple reality checkDean Kent2010/08/04 08:30 AM
                      Simple reality checkMark Roulo2010/08/04 08:59 AM
                      Suggestion for David Kanter and Mark RouloAM2010/08/05 02:57 AM
                        Suggestion for David Kanter and Mark Roulonone2010/08/05 03:22 AM
                          Suggestion for David Kanter and Mark RouloAM2010/08/05 11:04 PM
                        Suggestion for David Kanter and Mark Roulonone2010/08/05 03:38 AM
                          Suggestion for David Kanter and Mark Rouloanon2010/08/05 03:43 AM
                            Suggestion for David Kanter and Mark RouloAM2010/08/05 11:11 PM
                              Suggestion for David Kanter and Mark Rouloanon2010/08/06 06:52 AM
                          Suggestion for David Kanter and Mark RouloAM2010/08/05 11:10 PM
                            Suggestion for David Kanter and Mark Roulonone2010/08/06 12:35 AM
                              price doesn't matter only in theories (NT)AM2010/08/09 01:13 AM
                            Not apple4appleMichael S2010/08/06 04:13 AM
                              Not apple4appleAM2010/08/09 01:09 AM
                                Not apple4appleMichael S2010/08/09 03:35 AM
                                  Not apple4appleAM2010/08/10 12:05 AM
                                    Not apple4applenone2010/08/10 12:38 AM
                                      Back to topicAM2010/08/10 11:03 PM
                                      Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)AM2010/08/13 03:28 AM
                                        Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)none2010/08/13 08:10 AM
                                          Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)AM2010/08/16 12:14 AM
                                            Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)none2010/08/16 05:29 AM
                                              One example of 1000X shown to be wrong.sea2010/08/16 06:55 PM
                                                You're short of some factsAM2010/08/17 12:13 AM
                                                  Maybe you need to read beyond the PR statementSteve Underwood2010/08/17 01:39 AM
                                                    Maybe you need to read beyond the PR statementGroo2010/08/17 07:18 PM
                                                    check the hw they usedAM2010/08/18 02:33 AM
                                                Please realize what Monte Carlo meansVincent Diepeveen2010/08/18 02:28 AM
                                              Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)AM2010/08/17 12:18 AM
                                        Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)anon2010/08/14 12:22 AM
                                          Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)AM2010/08/16 12:15 AM
                                            Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)anon2010/08/16 01:10 PM
                                              Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)AM2010/08/17 12:15 AM
                                                Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)Michael S2010/08/17 01:58 AM
                                                  Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)AM2010/08/18 02:17 AM
                                                    Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)gallier22010/08/18 03:52 AM
                                                    Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)Michael S2010/08/18 04:33 AM
                                                      Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)Gabriele Svelto2010/08/18 05:11 AM
                                                      Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)Steve Underwood2010/08/18 03:03 PM
                                                        Intel might be moving from ISA to platformhobold2010/08/19 02:58 AM
                                                          Intel might be moving from ISA to platformSteve Underwood2010/08/22 06:00 PM
                                                            Intel might be moving from ISA to platformAnon2010/08/22 09:43 PM
                                                              Intel might be moving from ISA to platformajensen2010/08/22 11:37 PM
                                                                Intel might be moving from ISA to platformMichael S2010/08/23 01:13 AM
                                                                  Intel might be moving from ISA to platformSteve Underwood2010/08/23 01:35 AM
                                                                  Intel might be moving from ISA to platformhobold2010/08/26 03:37 AM
                                                                Intel might be moving from ISA to platformAnon2010/08/23 02:47 PM
                                                              Intel might be moving from ISA to platformSteve Underwood2010/08/23 01:25 AM
                                                                Intel might be moving from ISA to platformhobold2010/08/23 02:03 AM
                                                                  Intel might be moving from ISA to platformSteve Underwood2010/08/23 03:26 AM
                                                                Intel might be moving from ISA to platformAnon2010/08/23 02:55 PM
                                                                Intel might be moving from ISA to platformrwessel2010/08/23 05:41 PM
                                                                  Intel might be moving from ISA to platformSteve Underwood2010/08/23 06:30 PM
                                                                    Intel might be moving from ISA to platformrwessel2010/08/23 08:50 PM
                                                                      Intel might be moving from ISA to platformSteve Underwood2010/08/23 09:34 PM
                                                                        Intel might be moving from ISA to platformrwessel2010/08/24 12:03 AM
                                                              Intel might be moving from ISA to platformIan Ollmann2010/08/23 08:21 PM
                                                          Intel might be moving from ISA to platformajensen2010/08/22 09:36 PM
                                                            Intel might be moving from ISA to platformIan Ollmann2010/08/23 08:45 PM
                                                      Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)AM2010/08/19 12:29 AM
                                                        Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)Richard2010/08/19 03:51 AM
                                                          I stand corrected.Michael S2010/08/19 04:30 AM
                simple reality check for youanonymous2010/08/03 09:25 AM
                  simple reality check for youAM2010/08/03 10:47 PM
                    simple reality check for youanonymous2010/08/04 09:17 AM
                      simple reality check for youanon2010/08/04 07:33 PM
                      SPECint/FPAM2010/08/05 02:49 AM
                  simple reality check for youRohit2010/08/13 07:31 PM
                    simple reality check for youhobold2010/08/16 05:29 AM
              maybe texture caches ?Richard Cownie2010/08/03 08:27 AM
                maybe texture caches ?none2010/08/03 08:59 AM
                  maybe texture caches ?Richard Cownie2010/08/03 09:15 AM
                    maybe texture caches ?Mark Roulo2010/08/03 09:23 AM
                      maybe texture caches ?Richard Cownie2010/08/03 09:33 AM
                        maybe texture caches ?Mark Roulo2010/08/03 09:37 AM
                          the Hess paperRichard Cownie2010/08/03 10:16 AM
                    maybe texture caches ?Aaron Spink2010/08/03 12:23 PM
                      maybe texture caches ?Mark Roulo2010/08/03 03:13 PM
                        maybe texture caches ?Michael S2010/08/04 12:47 AM
                  maybe texture caches ?Michael S2010/08/03 09:23 AM
                maybe texture caches ?Mark Roulo2010/08/03 09:19 AM
                  maybe texture caches ?Richard Cownie2010/08/03 09:42 AM
                Cache to cache comparisonDavid Kanter2010/08/03 11:28 AM
                  Cache to cache comparisonRichard Cownie2010/08/03 11:52 AM
                    Cache to cache comparisonDavid Kanter2010/08/03 12:21 PM
                      Cache to cache comparisonRichard Cownie2010/08/03 02:55 PM
                      Cache to cache comparisonGabriele Svelto2010/08/03 10:23 PM
                        Nehalem vs Core2Richard Cownie2010/08/04 03:24 PM
                          Nehalem vs Core2IntelUser20002010/08/04 06:26 PM
                          Nehalem vs Core2Gabriele Svelto2010/08/04 09:51 PM
                            Nehalem vs Core2Richard Cownie2010/08/05 02:27 AM
                              Nehalem vs Core2Gabriele Svelto2010/08/05 05:00 AM
                                Nehalem vs Core2Richard Cownie2010/08/05 06:10 AM
                                  Nehalem vs Core2Gabriele Svelto2010/08/05 06:41 AM
                                    Nehalem vs Core2Michael S2010/08/05 09:02 AM
                              Nehalem vs Core2Michael S2010/08/05 09:12 AM
                          Nehalem vs Core2Michael S2010/08/04 11:36 PM
                            Nehalem vs Core2Richard Cownie2010/08/05 07:33 AM
                              Nehalem vs Core2Michael S2010/08/05 08:44 AM
                                Nehalem vs Core2Richard Cownie2010/08/05 09:03 AM
                                  Nehalem vs Core2Michael S2010/08/05 03:21 PM
                                    Nehalem vs Core2Richard Cownie2010/08/05 06:15 PM
                                      I'm wrong, you're right - i's 2 dieRichard Cownie2010/08/05 06:21 PM
                                    Nehalem vs Core2Richard Cownie2010/08/06 07:12 AM
                                      Nehalem vs Core2Michael S2010/08/06 07:33 AM
                                      Nehalem L1 cache latency a hedge for higher clock speeds?Mark Roulo2010/08/06 07:36 AM
                                        Nehalem L1 cache latency a hedge for higher clock speeds?Kevin G2010/08/07 09:14 AM
                                          Nehalem L1 cache latency a hedge for higher clock speeds?IntelUser20002010/08/07 01:32 PM
                                        Nehalem L1 cache latency a hedge for higher clock speeds?someone2010/08/07 01:35 PM
                          difference between C2D/C2Q chipsetsMichael S2010/08/04 11:57 PM
                          Nehalem core goals ... my takeMark Roulo2010/08/06 06:53 AM
                            Bulldozer single-threadRichard Cownie2010/08/06 03:05 PM
                          Nehalem vs Core2Carlie Coats2010/08/07 07:41 AM
                            scalingMichael S2010/08/07 10:12 AM
                            why X5460?Michael S2010/08/07 10:12 AM
                              why X5460?Carlie Coats2010/08/08 03:34 AM
                                why X5460?Michael S2010/08/08 03:42 AM
                                  Polling/PIO based COMM libraries?Michael S2010/08/08 04:14 AM
                    Cache to cache comparisonAnts Aasma2010/08/04 09:00 AM
                      Cache to cache comparisonRichard Cownie2010/08/04 09:08 AM
                        Cache to cache comparisonAnts Aasma2010/08/04 10:28 AM
                      Cache to cache comparisonMichael S2010/08/04 10:33 AM
                        Cache to cache comparisonMark Roulo2010/08/04 11:29 AM
                          Cache to cache comparisonAnts Aasma2010/08/04 12:10 PM
                            Fermi and G200 instruction latencyMark Roulo2010/08/04 01:10 PM
                              Fermi and G200 instruction latencyAnts Aasma2010/08/04 02:01 PM
                        Cache to cache comparisonAnts Aasma2010/08/04 12:00 PM
                        Register read comparisonDavid Kanter2010/08/05 08:16 AM
                          Register read comparisonGabriele Svelto2010/08/05 10:42 PM
                maybe texture caches ?Aaron Spink2010/08/03 12:17 PM
              GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPURichard2010/08/09 03:58 AM
                GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPUnone2010/08/09 04:19 AM
                  GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPUVincent Diepeveen2010/08/24 06:18 AM
                    Forget it, they won't hear itanon2010/08/24 03:37 PM
                    GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPURichard2010/08/25 12:03 PM
                This forum supports pre tagMichael S2010/08/09 05:03 AM
    Tarek's Hotpar 2010 article onlineRich Vuduc2010/07/28 09:24 AM
      Tarek's Hotpar 2010 article onlineAnon2010/07/28 03:18 PM
  Low hanging fruitMoritz2011/02/03 11:20 AM
    Low hanging fruitJukka Larja2011/02/06 04:01 AM
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