Intel might be moving from ISA to platform

Article: Parallelism at HotPar 2010
By: rwessel (robertwessel.delete@this.yahoo.com), August 23, 2010 8:50 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Steve Underwood (steveu@coppice.org) on 8/23/10 wrote:
---------------------------
>rwessel (robertwessel@yahoo.com) on 8/23/10 wrote:
>---------------------------
>>Steve Underwood (steveu@coppice.org) on 8/23/10 wrote:
>>---------------------------
>>>If they start showing worthwhile gains for problems involving numerous
>>>short vectors (e.g. the endless 40 element vectors in the G.729 speech codec), I
>>>might start to get really interested in them.
>>
>>
>>I assume you meant that as an example of an algorithm using short-ish vectors.
>>There's certainly no reason to apply hardware acceleration to G.729, short of needing to do 100+ streams.
>
>It is actually a very practical application. There is a market for cards to transcode
>hundreds or thousands of concurrent G.729 streams in VoIP server applications. The
>current 4 core xeons can do about 500 channels. People want to go higher (and also
>leave some time for the other functions of the server, of course). More xeons in
>the box is obviously one route. Are cheap GPUs a realistic alternative?


It's a pretty small market (although not an insignificant one). There are just over 100,000 businesses in the United States with more than 100 employees (plus a number of non-business entities, of course). Certainly no one smaller than that will need a 500 stream VoIP server

At best, you'd be looking at about 25,000 units per year in the US, assuming a five year replacement cycle (which would be extremely fast in historical PBX terms).

Worse, it's a declining market. Let's say in 2015, something price equivalent to today's 4 core Xeon, will be four times as fast (eg. less than Moore's Law). The resulting server handing 2000 streams would likely handle almost all entities with fewer than 500 people. There are only about 18,000 businesses with more than 500 people in the US. Or about 5000 units per year. Head out another five years, and the numbers quarter (or worse) again.

Unfortunately the above is highly optimistic - the actual need for active streams per-employee (or station) is far lower than the above implies. And significantly beefier servers are available at modest cost increments.

And many of the active streams can run without the server getting involved at all (for example, VoIP station-to-station non-conference calls). Calls involving access to the regular telco network, and things like voicemail, will require server involvement, but the need for those will clearly decline (with more VoIP stations, more calls will avoid the conversion to 64kbps voice, for both active calls and things like voicemail).

Nor is it clear that there's a real cost issue. Business phones will continue to cost money on a per unit basis to install, let's be conservative and call it $100/ea. The incremental cost for another (low end) server for every 500 stations will be modest. And you may well be adding gear to support other functions (like voicemail) as your PBX grows.

Another business (or way to view the entire market) would be general VoIP service. There are only a few million streams active at the busiest times in the US, perhaps surging to a (very) few tens of millions at select times. A few thousand 2000-stream servers would handle the entire US call volume assuming that every VoIP user was talking to a *non*-VoIP user.

But still there will be some need for large-ish VoIP servers, and GPUs may fit there, but a few thousand units per year is not really going to excite the GPU vendors.

And I’m not forgetting the non-US market, but that will only increase those numbers by a small factor.
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TopicPosted ByDate
Tarek's Hotpar 2010 article onlineDavid Kanter2010/07/27 07:29 AM
  Tarek's Hotpar 2010 article onlineAnon2010/07/27 01:57 PM
    Tarek's Hotpar 2010 article onlineDavid Kanter2010/07/27 10:48 PM
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            CPU+GPUhobold2010/07/30 06:54 AM
              CPU+GPUGabriele Svelto2010/07/30 07:18 AM
                CPU+GPUhobold2010/07/30 02:46 PM
              CPU+GPUAaron Spink2010/08/02 05:32 PM
                CPU+GPUhobold2010/08/03 03:33 AM
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              CPU+GPU - the software problemmpx2010/08/02 11:19 AM
                CPU+GPU - the software problemRichard Cownie2010/08/02 12:48 PM
                  CPU+GPU - the software problemGabriele Svelto2010/08/02 11:10 PM
                    CPU+GPU - the software problemhobold2010/08/03 03:41 AM
                      CPU+GPU - the software problemRichard Cownie2010/08/03 05:17 AM
                        CPU+GPU - the software problemhobold2010/08/04 06:45 AM
                          NVidia in a holeRichard Cownie2010/08/04 07:23 AM
                            NVidia in a holeRohit2010/08/04 07:33 AM
                              NVidia in a holeRichard Cownie2010/08/04 07:50 AM
                                NVidia in a holeRohit2010/08/05 06:31 AM
                                  NVidia in a holeGroo2010/08/05 01:08 PM
                                NVidia in a holeGroo2010/08/05 01:07 PM
                              NVidia in a holeMark Roulo2010/08/04 08:26 AM
                                NVidia in a holeLaughabee2010/08/18 07:28 AM
                            Can nVidia survive without a sub-$100 GPU market?Mark Roulo2010/08/04 08:29 AM
                              Can nVidia survive without a sub-$100 GPU market?Richard Cownie2010/08/04 08:42 AM
                                Can nVidia survive without a sub-$100 GPU market?Mark Roulo2010/08/04 08:55 AM
                                  Can nVidia survive without a sub-$100 GPU market?Linus Torvalds2010/08/04 10:35 AM
                                    "profit" is subjectiveRichard Cownie2010/08/04 10:49 AM
                                      "profit" is subjectivea reader2010/08/06 03:54 AM
                                        no price warRichard Cownie2010/08/06 06:18 AM
                                  Can nVidia survive without a sub-$100 GPU market?Aaron Spink2010/08/04 11:19 AM
                                  Can nVidia survive without a sub-$100 GPU market?Konrad Schwarz2010/08/06 07:13 AM
                                CPU lineup != GPU lineupRohit2010/08/05 06:43 AM
                                  CPU lineup != GPU lineupRichard Cownie2010/08/05 07:12 AM
                                    CPU lineup != GPU lineupRohit2010/08/05 07:37 AM
                                      CPU lineup != GPU lineupRichard Cownie2010/08/05 07:56 AM
                                        CPU lineup != GPU lineupRohit2010/08/05 10:19 AM
                                          CPU lineup != GPU lineuphobold2010/08/06 03:08 AM
                                            CPU lineup != GPU lineupRohit2010/08/06 06:24 AM
                                              CPU lineup != GPU lineuphobold2010/08/06 06:41 AM
                              Can nVidia survive without a sub-$100 GPU market?David Hess2010/08/04 10:31 AM
                              Can nVidia survive without a sub-$100 GPU market?Ricardo B2010/08/04 12:16 PM
                              Semiconductor economicsDavid Kanter2010/08/05 08:13 AM
                                Semiconductor economicsRichard Cownie2010/08/05 08:51 AM
                                  NV buying ViA could shake up thingsRohit2010/08/05 10:09 AM
                                    NV buying ViA could shake up thingsRichard Cownie2010/08/05 10:25 AM
                                      Not likelyDavid Kanter2010/08/05 01:39 PM
                                        Not likelyrandom2010/08/05 01:49 PM
                                          Not likelyAaron Spink2010/08/05 02:18 PM
                                        Not likelyGroo2010/08/05 09:05 PM
                                        Not likelyRohit2010/08/06 06:25 AM
                                    NV buying ViA could shake up thingsGroo2010/08/05 09:02 PM
                                    NV buying ViA could shake up thingsehud2010/08/06 12:53 AM
                                      NV buying ViA could shake up thingsRohit2010/08/06 06:30 AM
                                        NV buying ViA could shake up thingsKevin G2010/08/06 04:54 PM
                                          ViA buying NV could shake up thingsBrendan2010/08/19 05:23 AM
                                        NV buying ViA could shake up thingsGroo2010/08/06 07:24 PM
                            NVidia in a holempx2010/08/04 11:01 AM
                              NVidia in a holeRichard Cownie2010/08/04 11:31 AM
                                NVidia in a holercf2010/08/04 02:40 PM
                              NVidia in a holeRohit2010/08/05 06:51 AM
                              NVidia in a holeGroo2010/08/05 08:50 PM
                              NVidia in a holeAaron Spink2010/08/05 10:52 PM
                          Anyone else wish Intel would buy Nvidia ? (NT)Silent2010/08/07 12:30 AM
                            Hell noa2010/08/07 07:37 PM
                        CPU+GPU - the software problemno thanks2010/08/04 06:54 PM
                          CPU+GPU - the software problemJouni Osmala2010/08/05 12:41 AM
                            CPU+GPU - the software problemIntelUser20002010/08/05 06:54 PM
                              CPU+GPU - the software problemJouni Osmala2010/08/05 08:36 PM
                            CPU+GPU - the software problemLinus Torvalds2010/08/06 07:08 AM
                              CPU+GPU - the software problemanonymous2010/08/06 08:39 AM
                                CPU+GPU - the software problemLinus Torvalds2010/08/06 09:56 AM
                                  non-existent Via+NV vs real OntarioRichard Cownie2010/08/06 11:12 AM
                              CPU+GPU - the software problemkoby m.2010/08/07 01:06 AM
                  CPU+GPU - the software problemhobold2010/08/03 03:48 AM
                CPU+GPU - the software problemhobold2010/08/03 03:45 AM
                  CPU+GPU - the software problemRichard Cownie2010/08/03 05:22 AM
          CPU+GPUAnon2010/07/30 08:11 PM
            CPU+GPUanon2010/07/31 02:19 AM
            CPU+GPUAaron Spink2010/08/02 05:45 PM
          100x speedups -- here we go againAM2010/08/02 12:37 AM
            100x speedups -- here we go againanon2010/08/02 02:32 AM
              100x speedups -- here we go againanon2010/08/02 10:14 PM
            GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPUMark Roulo2010/08/02 08:41 AM
              GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPUMichael S2010/08/02 02:31 PM
                GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPUanon2010/08/02 08:36 PM
                  GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPUMichael S2010/08/02 11:41 PM
                    GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPUMark Roulo2010/08/03 07:22 AM
                      GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPURohit2010/08/04 06:08 AM
                      There is reasonable explanation...Jouni Osmala2010/08/04 09:10 PM
                  GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPUMark Roulo2010/08/03 07:19 AM
              simple reality check for youAM2010/08/03 12:45 AM
                simple reality check for younone2010/08/03 06:27 AM
                  simple reality check for youAM2010/08/03 10:50 PM
                    simple reality check for youanon2010/08/03 11:06 PM
                      simple reality check for youAM2010/08/05 02:51 AM
                        catch the same boat as everyone else next time (NT)anon2010/08/05 03:44 AM
                Simple reality checkDavid Kanter2010/08/03 07:24 AM
                  Simple reality checkGabriele Svelto2010/08/03 09:51 PM
                  Simple reality checkAM2010/08/03 10:57 PM
                    Simple reality checkanon2010/08/03 11:12 PM
                      Simple reality checkAM2010/08/05 02:59 AM
                        Simple reality checkanon2010/08/05 03:47 AM
                          Study the papers, troll (NT)AM2010/08/05 11:01 PM
                    Simple reality checkhobold2010/08/04 04:05 AM
                    Simple reality checkDean Kent2010/08/04 08:30 AM
                      Simple reality checkMark Roulo2010/08/04 08:59 AM
                      Suggestion for David Kanter and Mark RouloAM2010/08/05 02:57 AM
                        Suggestion for David Kanter and Mark Roulonone2010/08/05 03:22 AM
                          Suggestion for David Kanter and Mark RouloAM2010/08/05 11:04 PM
                        Suggestion for David Kanter and Mark Roulonone2010/08/05 03:38 AM
                          Suggestion for David Kanter and Mark Rouloanon2010/08/05 03:43 AM
                            Suggestion for David Kanter and Mark RouloAM2010/08/05 11:11 PM
                              Suggestion for David Kanter and Mark Rouloanon2010/08/06 06:52 AM
                          Suggestion for David Kanter and Mark RouloAM2010/08/05 11:10 PM
                            Suggestion for David Kanter and Mark Roulonone2010/08/06 12:35 AM
                              price doesn't matter only in theories (NT)AM2010/08/09 01:13 AM
                            Not apple4appleMichael S2010/08/06 04:13 AM
                              Not apple4appleAM2010/08/09 01:09 AM
                                Not apple4appleMichael S2010/08/09 03:35 AM
                                  Not apple4appleAM2010/08/10 12:05 AM
                                    Not apple4applenone2010/08/10 12:38 AM
                                      Back to topicAM2010/08/10 11:03 PM
                                      Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)AM2010/08/13 03:28 AM
                                        Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)none2010/08/13 08:10 AM
                                          Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)AM2010/08/16 12:14 AM
                                            Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)none2010/08/16 05:29 AM
                                              One example of 1000X shown to be wrong.sea2010/08/16 06:55 PM
                                                You're short of some factsAM2010/08/17 12:13 AM
                                                  Maybe you need to read beyond the PR statementSteve Underwood2010/08/17 01:39 AM
                                                    Maybe you need to read beyond the PR statementGroo2010/08/17 07:18 PM
                                                    check the hw they usedAM2010/08/18 02:33 AM
                                                Please realize what Monte Carlo meansVincent Diepeveen2010/08/18 02:28 AM
                                              Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)AM2010/08/17 12:18 AM
                                        Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)anon2010/08/14 12:22 AM
                                          Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)AM2010/08/16 12:15 AM
                                            Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)anon2010/08/16 01:10 PM
                                              Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)AM2010/08/17 12:15 AM
                                                Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)Michael S2010/08/17 01:58 AM
                                                  Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)AM2010/08/18 02:17 AM
                                                    Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)gallier22010/08/18 03:52 AM
                                                    Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)Michael S2010/08/18 04:33 AM
                                                      Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)Gabriele Svelto2010/08/18 05:11 AM
                                                      Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)Steve Underwood2010/08/18 03:03 PM
                                                        Intel might be moving from ISA to platformhobold2010/08/19 02:58 AM
                                                          Intel might be moving from ISA to platformSteve Underwood2010/08/22 06:00 PM
                                                            Intel might be moving from ISA to platformAnon2010/08/22 09:43 PM
                                                              Intel might be moving from ISA to platformajensen2010/08/22 11:37 PM
                                                                Intel might be moving from ISA to platformMichael S2010/08/23 01:13 AM
                                                                  Intel might be moving from ISA to platformSteve Underwood2010/08/23 01:35 AM
                                                                  Intel might be moving from ISA to platformhobold2010/08/26 03:37 AM
                                                                Intel might be moving from ISA to platformAnon2010/08/23 02:47 PM
                                                              Intel might be moving from ISA to platformSteve Underwood2010/08/23 01:25 AM
                                                                Intel might be moving from ISA to platformhobold2010/08/23 02:03 AM
                                                                  Intel might be moving from ISA to platformSteve Underwood2010/08/23 03:26 AM
                                                                Intel might be moving from ISA to platformAnon2010/08/23 02:55 PM
                                                                Intel might be moving from ISA to platformrwessel2010/08/23 05:41 PM
                                                                  Intel might be moving from ISA to platformSteve Underwood2010/08/23 06:30 PM
                                                                    Intel might be moving from ISA to platformrwessel2010/08/23 08:50 PM
                                                                      Intel might be moving from ISA to platformSteve Underwood2010/08/23 09:34 PM
                                                                        Intel might be moving from ISA to platformrwessel2010/08/24 12:03 AM
                                                              Intel might be moving from ISA to platformIan Ollmann2010/08/23 08:21 PM
                                                          Intel might be moving from ISA to platformajensen2010/08/22 09:36 PM
                                                            Intel might be moving from ISA to platformIan Ollmann2010/08/23 08:45 PM
                                                      Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)AM2010/08/19 12:29 AM
                                                        Final note (and some remarks on Intel's paper)Richard2010/08/19 03:51 AM
                                                          I stand corrected.Michael S2010/08/19 04:30 AM
                simple reality check for youanonymous2010/08/03 09:25 AM
                  simple reality check for youAM2010/08/03 10:47 PM
                    simple reality check for youanonymous2010/08/04 09:17 AM
                      simple reality check for youanon2010/08/04 07:33 PM
                      SPECint/FPAM2010/08/05 02:49 AM
                  simple reality check for youRohit2010/08/13 07:31 PM
                    simple reality check for youhobold2010/08/16 05:29 AM
              maybe texture caches ?Richard Cownie2010/08/03 08:27 AM
                maybe texture caches ?none2010/08/03 08:59 AM
                  maybe texture caches ?Richard Cownie2010/08/03 09:15 AM
                    maybe texture caches ?Mark Roulo2010/08/03 09:23 AM
                      maybe texture caches ?Richard Cownie2010/08/03 09:33 AM
                        maybe texture caches ?Mark Roulo2010/08/03 09:37 AM
                          the Hess paperRichard Cownie2010/08/03 10:16 AM
                    maybe texture caches ?Aaron Spink2010/08/03 12:23 PM
                      maybe texture caches ?Mark Roulo2010/08/03 03:13 PM
                        maybe texture caches ?Michael S2010/08/04 12:47 AM
                  maybe texture caches ?Michael S2010/08/03 09:23 AM
                maybe texture caches ?Mark Roulo2010/08/03 09:19 AM
                  maybe texture caches ?Richard Cownie2010/08/03 09:42 AM
                Cache to cache comparisonDavid Kanter2010/08/03 11:28 AM
                  Cache to cache comparisonRichard Cownie2010/08/03 11:52 AM
                    Cache to cache comparisonDavid Kanter2010/08/03 12:21 PM
                      Cache to cache comparisonRichard Cownie2010/08/03 02:55 PM
                      Cache to cache comparisonGabriele Svelto2010/08/03 10:23 PM
                        Nehalem vs Core2Richard Cownie2010/08/04 03:24 PM
                          Nehalem vs Core2IntelUser20002010/08/04 06:26 PM
                          Nehalem vs Core2Gabriele Svelto2010/08/04 09:51 PM
                            Nehalem vs Core2Richard Cownie2010/08/05 02:27 AM
                              Nehalem vs Core2Gabriele Svelto2010/08/05 05:00 AM
                                Nehalem vs Core2Richard Cownie2010/08/05 06:10 AM
                                  Nehalem vs Core2Gabriele Svelto2010/08/05 06:41 AM
                                    Nehalem vs Core2Michael S2010/08/05 09:02 AM
                              Nehalem vs Core2Michael S2010/08/05 09:12 AM
                          Nehalem vs Core2Michael S2010/08/04 11:36 PM
                            Nehalem vs Core2Richard Cownie2010/08/05 07:33 AM
                              Nehalem vs Core2Michael S2010/08/05 08:44 AM
                                Nehalem vs Core2Richard Cownie2010/08/05 09:03 AM
                                  Nehalem vs Core2Michael S2010/08/05 03:21 PM
                                    Nehalem vs Core2Richard Cownie2010/08/05 06:15 PM
                                      I'm wrong, you're right - i's 2 dieRichard Cownie2010/08/05 06:21 PM
                                    Nehalem vs Core2Richard Cownie2010/08/06 07:12 AM
                                      Nehalem vs Core2Michael S2010/08/06 07:33 AM
                                      Nehalem L1 cache latency a hedge for higher clock speeds?Mark Roulo2010/08/06 07:36 AM
                                        Nehalem L1 cache latency a hedge for higher clock speeds?Kevin G2010/08/07 09:14 AM
                                          Nehalem L1 cache latency a hedge for higher clock speeds?IntelUser20002010/08/07 01:32 PM
                                        Nehalem L1 cache latency a hedge for higher clock speeds?someone2010/08/07 01:35 PM
                          difference between C2D/C2Q chipsetsMichael S2010/08/04 11:57 PM
                          Nehalem core goals ... my takeMark Roulo2010/08/06 06:53 AM
                            Bulldozer single-threadRichard Cownie2010/08/06 03:05 PM
                          Nehalem vs Core2Carlie Coats2010/08/07 07:41 AM
                            scalingMichael S2010/08/07 10:12 AM
                            why X5460?Michael S2010/08/07 10:12 AM
                              why X5460?Carlie Coats2010/08/08 03:34 AM
                                why X5460?Michael S2010/08/08 03:42 AM
                                  Polling/PIO based COMM libraries?Michael S2010/08/08 04:14 AM
                    Cache to cache comparisonAnts Aasma2010/08/04 09:00 AM
                      Cache to cache comparisonRichard Cownie2010/08/04 09:08 AM
                        Cache to cache comparisonAnts Aasma2010/08/04 10:28 AM
                      Cache to cache comparisonMichael S2010/08/04 10:33 AM
                        Cache to cache comparisonMark Roulo2010/08/04 11:29 AM
                          Cache to cache comparisonAnts Aasma2010/08/04 12:10 PM
                            Fermi and G200 instruction latencyMark Roulo2010/08/04 01:10 PM
                              Fermi and G200 instruction latencyAnts Aasma2010/08/04 02:01 PM
                        Cache to cache comparisonAnts Aasma2010/08/04 12:00 PM
                        Register read comparisonDavid Kanter2010/08/05 08:16 AM
                          Register read comparisonGabriele Svelto2010/08/05 10:42 PM
                maybe texture caches ?Aaron Spink2010/08/03 12:17 PM
              GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPURichard2010/08/09 03:58 AM
                GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPUnone2010/08/09 04:19 AM
                  GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPUVincent Diepeveen2010/08/24 06:18 AM
                    Forget it, they won't hear itanon2010/08/24 03:37 PM
                    GPU raw H/W only has about a 10x advantage over a CPURichard2010/08/25 12:03 PM
                This forum supports pre tagMichael S2010/08/09 05:03 AM
    Tarek's Hotpar 2010 article onlineRich Vuduc2010/07/28 09:24 AM
      Tarek's Hotpar 2010 article onlineAnon2010/07/28 03:18 PM
  Low hanging fruitMoritz2011/02/03 11:20 AM
    Low hanging fruitJukka Larja2011/02/06 04:01 AM
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