TRIM (was Quad pixel?)

By: anon (anon.delete@this.anon.com), January 20, 2011 12:12 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Aaron Spink (aaronspink@notearthlink.net) on 1/20/11 wrote:
---------------------------
>anon (anon@anon.com) on 1/20/11 wrote:
>---------------------------
>>SRAM/DRAM? Battery backed? I'd be surprised if that was the case, on a commodity SSD.
>>
>Almost all the SSD controllers on the market utilize off chip DRAM for tables (and
>some even for caching data). The only exception I know of is the sandforce controller
>but it tends to have bad performance when it has to use RT GC precisely because
>it is a sliding window/table small onchip map. We are talking about the full on
>consumer drives. Almost all of them utilize a single DRAM chip primarily to store
>mapping tables. The DRAM chips used vary in size from 32MB to 256MB. Just look
>at board photos for any of the Marvell/Indilix/Jmicron/Intel based SSDs which I'm
>sure you would agree fit into the commodity SSD range (since with the Sandforce
>controller, they are the only controllers used).
>
>Several of the drives utilize capacitors as well. And certainly all the enterprise
>drives do. Not battery backed, but capacitive power in case of a power loss to
>write the mapping tables. There are only two other options: don't worry about power
>loss or do full device scan to rebuild tables on power on.

Caps can write out how much? A few hundred K of flash at most. And that's not necessarily enough to hold your trim data or mapping tables.

>
>
>>Anyway, right. So when you say "it's free, it just has to update this table", you
>>mean that an IO has to go down the wire, and the device has to do some processing
>>and potentially some banging on NAND (or PCM or whatever) or even this SRAM, and then send the completion back up.
>>
>>That's only "free" for some restricted definitions of "free".
>>
>Its on the order of hundreds of nS and device latencies are on the order of hundreds
>of uS. I consider < 0.1% to be free.

Hundreds of nS to program the device, have it process the trim, and complete? You don't think the entire OS path to allocate a request, take locks, and put it into driver queues, and kick the driver will take more than a couple of cache misses and branch mispredicts?

And, "hundreds of us"? One hundred us is 10,000 iops and an Intel SSD can do what, 40000 iops? Your high end capacitor backed etc etc drives may be able to process trim a bit faster, but they're doing what? Several times more IOPs than that too.

You're just way off with all your numbers. I don't know where you come up with them.

>
>>And even on those, TRIM will be a total loss if the filesystem rewrites the same
>>LBA before the old one is garbage collected.
>>
>No, not a total loss. For a write to an unmapped LBA, you don't have to do a map
>and mark to free/dirty. So it saves there. If you are doing block erase and write,
>it shouldn't have any effect and if you are doing random IO, the device should have plenty of free time.

Um, no. A rewrite to the same LBA effectively *is* a trim of the old PBA. The old PBA is invalid at that point, the prior trim added nothing.

>
>In a properly implemented SSD, the overhead for doing a TRIM really is minimal.
>And the occupancy/latency on the SATA/SAS interface should also be in the noise.

That is what you think.
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                        Intel GMs for low-endDavid Kanter2011/01/18 10:05 AM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/14 08:29 AM
                      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?a reader2011/01/14 06:25 PM
                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Foo_2011/01/15 02:12 AM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Matt Sayler2011/01/15 11:25 AM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?IntelUser20002011/01/16 04:20 PM
                              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Matt Sayler2011/01/16 05:02 PM
                                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Megol2011/01/17 09:18 AM
                                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Brett2011/01/17 03:58 PM
                                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Louis Gerbarg2011/01/17 05:12 PM
                                      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Brett2011/01/17 07:06 PM
                                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Louis Gerbarg2011/01/18 09:13 AM
                                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Rob Thorpe2011/01/18 02:23 PM
                                      Nice postDavid Kanter2011/01/18 10:38 AM
                            New MacBook Pros are getting closerMatt Sayler2011/02/24 08:46 AM
                      The ARM story: Earthquake looming??2011/01/16 08:29 AM
                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/16 09:08 PM
                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Gabriele Svelto2011/01/16 11:43 PM
                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Robert Myers2011/01/14 05:29 PM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Max2011/01/15 06:18 AM
        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Groo2011/01/12 03:59 PM
          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 04:40 PM
            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Groo2011/01/12 08:14 PM
        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Adrian2011/01/13 01:35 PM
          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Paul2011/01/13 04:19 PM
            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Adrian2011/01/14 02:50 AM
              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/14 06:00 AM
                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?none2011/01/14 06:26 AM
                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/14 06:46 AM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?none2011/01/14 07:02 AM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/14 08:42 AM
                      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Richard Cownie2011/01/14 09:06 AM
                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?someone2011/01/14 10:20 AM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?fastpathguru2011/01/14 11:22 AM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Richard Cownie2011/01/14 05:01 PM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Aaron Spink2011/01/15 05:07 AM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?slacker2011/01/15 03:08 PM
                              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Jukka Larja2011/01/16 12:44 AM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?mpx2011/01/15 04:08 AM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Paul2011/01/15 08:20 AM
                        The ARM story: 64 bit or bust?Kevin G2011/01/14 04:21 PM
                          The ARM story: 64 bit or bust?someone2011/01/15 09:48 AM
                      Bye, bye native binarympx2011/01/14 11:51 PM
                        Bye, bye native binaryExophase2011/01/18 05:39 PM
                      RISC with 16 GPRs!?anon2011/01/19 04:42 PM
                        RISC with 16 GPRs!?Exophase2011/01/19 05:20 PM
                        doomed ARM sells 6B cores/yearRichard Cownie2011/01/19 09:01 PM
      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/12 09:30 PM
      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?mpx2011/01/13 03:05 AM
  Not a chance in hellRohit2011/01/12 06:49 AM
  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?notsure2011/01/12 11:39 AM
  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?mpx2011/01/13 03:27 AM
  The _Android_ story: Earthquake looming?fastpathguru2011/01/13 10:50 AM
    Internet + web apps + multimedia = enablermpx2011/01/14 01:11 AM
    The _Android_ story: Earthquake looming?Will Smith2011/01/14 08:48 AM
  Notebook vendors show no interest in Oak Trail Nicki Minaj2011/01/16 05:37 PM
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