Mythical SSDs

By: Linus Torvalds (torvalds.delete@this.linux-foundation.org), January 21, 2011 9:24 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Ricardo B (ricardo.b@xxxxx.xx) on 1/21/11 wrote:
>
>Can *anyone* point out those mythical SSDs
>
>- for which TRIM reduces performance, either in the short or long term.

Umm. It's more like the reverse.

The _common_ case is that trim reduces performance, because
it makes file delete slower.

In fact, I can pretty much guarantee you that it does that
on just about every ssd that supports trim out there.

And on some systems, trim just makes them unusable, because
the ssd is so bad at it.

Of course, part of it is the actual trim patterns, but
see for example

http://people.redhat.com/jmoyer/discard/ext4_batched_discard/ext4_discard.html

just to see some numbers, since people seem to be in denial.

Yes, those "1000%" things are real. See how the "good"
devices only slow down by 15-20%, while the bad device gets
ten times slower when the filesystem sends discards for
blocks as it deletes them.

Yes, yes, so people are trying to come up with better
ways, where you discard in batches, and where you just
discard entirely off-line. As mentioned, my personal
opinion is that on-line trim is just stupid, and doing
it offline (when the system is quieter - so not necessarily
_totally_ offline, but basically not during real ops)
is the only sane approach.

But dammit, can you guys shut the f*ck up already? Admit
that you were wrong, and trim isn't fast, and isn't a
simple thing. Because IO patterns matter, and without ESP
you can never know when it's a good idea to TRIM.

99% of the time, you're probably much better just reusing
the block and letting the normal write activity be
the "trim and overwrite".

I'm done arguing. Come back when you have re-acquainted
yourself with reality. As it is, I'm just seeing a lot of
"TRIM should be fast" noise, with no f*cking clue.

Linus
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                      The ARM story: Earthquake looming??2011/01/16 08:29 AM
                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/16 09:08 PM
                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Gabriele Svelto2011/01/16 11:43 PM
                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Robert Myers2011/01/14 05:29 PM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Max2011/01/15 06:18 AM
        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Groo2011/01/12 03:59 PM
          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 04:40 PM
            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Groo2011/01/12 08:14 PM
        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Adrian2011/01/13 01:35 PM
          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Paul2011/01/13 04:19 PM
            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Adrian2011/01/14 02:50 AM
              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/14 06:00 AM
                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?none2011/01/14 06:26 AM
                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/14 06:46 AM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?none2011/01/14 07:02 AM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/14 08:42 AM
                      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Richard Cownie2011/01/14 09:06 AM
                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?someone2011/01/14 10:20 AM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?fastpathguru2011/01/14 11:22 AM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Richard Cownie2011/01/14 05:01 PM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Aaron Spink2011/01/15 05:07 AM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?slacker2011/01/15 03:08 PM
                              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Jukka Larja2011/01/16 12:44 AM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?mpx2011/01/15 04:08 AM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Paul2011/01/15 08:20 AM
                        The ARM story: 64 bit or bust?Kevin G2011/01/14 04:21 PM
                          The ARM story: 64 bit or bust?someone2011/01/15 09:48 AM
                      Bye, bye native binarympx2011/01/14 11:51 PM
                        Bye, bye native binaryExophase2011/01/18 05:39 PM
                      RISC with 16 GPRs!?anon2011/01/19 04:42 PM
                        RISC with 16 GPRs!?Exophase2011/01/19 05:20 PM
                        doomed ARM sells 6B cores/yearRichard Cownie2011/01/19 09:01 PM
      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/12 09:30 PM
      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?mpx2011/01/13 03:05 AM
  Not a chance in hellRohit2011/01/12 06:49 AM
  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?notsure2011/01/12 11:39 AM
  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?mpx2011/01/13 03:27 AM
  The _Android_ story: Earthquake looming?fastpathguru2011/01/13 10:50 AM
    Internet + web apps + multimedia = enablermpx2011/01/14 01:11 AM
    The _Android_ story: Earthquake looming?Will Smith2011/01/14 08:48 AM
  Notebook vendors show no interest in Oak Trail Nicki Minaj2011/01/16 05:37 PM
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