The ARM story: Earthquake looming?

By: Brett (ggtgp.delete@this.yahoo.com), January 19, 2011 2:35 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Rob Thorpe (rthorpe@robertthorpeconsulting.com) on 1/19/11 wrote:
---------------------------
>A lot of other folks seem to have done most of my job for me, but I think there are still a few more points to clear up.
>
>Brett (ggtgp@yahoo.com) on 1/18/11 wrote:
>---------------------------
>...
>>I never claimed that Apple was a CPU design company.
>>Building a SOC (System On Chip) complete with Apple designed ADB and Apple designed
>>FireWire and Apple designed IWM is not a trivial task.
>
>Well, Aaron Spink thinks otherwise. Since he AFAIK he designs chips I'm believing him not you.
>
>>My claim was "Apple has a long history of using SOC to drive cost down and volumes up."
>>And then I gave URLs to prove what I had said.
>>The resultant commentary is little more than Apple bashing.
>
>The rest of us agree with you that Apple have collected together logic into single
>chips. We don't agree that this constitutes serious "chip design talent". It's
>also not very unique, other companies have done the same thing and much more.
>
>Most of the things you mention could be done by a handful of people and may well have been done by outside contractors.

The funny part is that I agree with you.
Apple has "enough" "chip design talent" to do what it needs to do for new breakthroughs in industrial design for revolutionary new consumer appliances.
(WARNING: My phraseology is designed to annoy computer geeks. ;)
As for being "serious" in "chip design talent", who cares, I dont.

Apple has people like Aaron Spink, he has probably worked on an Apple product or two.

>Do you have any evidence that HP have done better than Dell because of SOC? What
>SOC have HP used in the past few years that has allowed them to get ahead of Dell?

My experience with HP is dated, (PA RISC era) since then HP has bought several huge companies and gone through many layoffs.

Once upon a time ago there was a company called Apollo Computer that was the second largest workstation company behind Sun. HP bought them.
(Lots of people here still use Mentor Graphics products.)

The Apollo hardware engineers were hard pressed to engineer their way out of a wet paper bag.
(The software engineers were not much better, Aegis sucked compared to UNIX.)

The workstation motherboards were 11 layers and covered in engineering change wires. Huge boards covered tightly in small dual inline packages.
(The CPU was a 68020, nothing special.)

HP replaces huge iron PC box with smaller box with 6-ish layer motherboard covered lightly (not tightly) with square custom chips. No engineering change wires.

Later we got pizza boxes with HP PA-RISC CPUs.

HP clearly understood industrial design and making new form factor products that would sell.

> Lots of stuff on OEMs and ODMs, etc, that I have no disagreement with.

Dell is re-active, a big customer asks for something, or a competitor has something, and Dell asks its supply chain for a copy.
Or something new from the supply chain shows up on the dock, so Dell sells it.
Dell has salesmen.

HP has engineers, engineers want to make things BETTER.
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TopicPosted ByDate
The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Will Smith2011/01/12 12:30 AM
  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Max2011/01/12 01:50 AM
    Any x86 -> ARM port experience?Ben Harper2011/01/12 03:22 AM
      Any x86 -> ARM port experience?Michael S2011/01/12 06:52 AM
        Any x86 -> ARM port experience?Megol2011/01/12 09:10 AM
          Any x86 -> ARM port experience?Michael S2011/01/12 10:19 AM
            Any x86 -> ARM port experience?Wilco2011/01/12 11:47 AM
              badly written?Michael S2011/01/12 12:59 PM
                badly written?Wilco2011/01/12 02:03 PM
                  badly written?Megol2011/01/13 04:16 AM
                    badly written?Wilco2011/01/13 06:09 AM
                      badly written?Megol2011/01/14 02:28 AM
                        badly written?Wilco2011/01/14 06:20 AM
                  badly written?mpx2011/01/13 08:19 AM
                    badly written?James2011/01/14 03:15 AM
                  unaligned read is fast on NehalemRichard Cownie2011/01/13 09:10 AM
                    unaligned read is fast on NehalemLinus Torvalds2011/01/13 09:45 AM
                      l1 access size?anon2011/01/13 11:16 AM
                      unaligned read is fast on NehalemRichard Cownie2011/01/13 11:21 AM
                      unaligned read is fast on NehalemEduardoS2011/01/13 03:42 PM
                        unaligned read is fast on NehalemMichael S2011/01/13 03:50 PM
                        unaligned read is fast on NehalemRichard Cownie2011/01/13 04:50 PM
                      unaligned read is fast on NehalemKonrad Schwarz2011/01/17 06:28 AM
                badly written?anoneeeemouse2011/01/12 05:31 PM
              And endianness?Ben Harper2011/01/13 04:34 AM
                And endianness?rwessel2011/01/13 04:40 AM
                  And endianness?Wilco2011/01/13 05:20 AM
                    And endianness?Ben Harper2011/01/13 07:11 AM
                    And endianness?Konrad Schwarz2011/01/17 06:20 AM
                      And endianness?Megol2011/01/17 10:09 AM
        Any x86 -> ARM port experience?EduardoS2011/01/12 01:30 PM
      Any x86 -> ARM port experience?anon2011/01/12 09:53 AM
        Any x86 -> ARM port experience?anon2011/01/12 09:28 PM
          Any x86 -> ARM port experience?anon2011/01/12 09:52 PM
    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/12 10:44 AM
      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 02:53 PM
        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/12 03:14 PM
          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 03:20 PM
            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/12 03:36 PM
              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 04:17 PM
                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Aaron Spink2011/01/12 04:46 PM
                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 04:54 PM
                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/12 04:49 PM
                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 05:20 PM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/12 06:20 PM
                      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 07:51 PM
                    Some CoreMark resultsPaul A. Clayton2011/01/12 06:41 PM
                      Some CoreMark resultsWilco2011/01/12 09:49 PM
                        Some CoreMark resultsPaul A. Clayton2011/01/13 08:14 AM
                          Some CoreMark resultsWilco2011/01/13 11:31 AM
                            Some CoreMark resultsLinus Torvalds2011/01/13 11:36 AM
                              Some CoreMark resultsanonymous2011/01/13 12:05 PM
                              Some CoreMark resultsWilco2011/01/13 12:15 PM
                                Some CoreMark resultsLinus Torvalds2011/01/13 02:02 PM
                                  Some CoreMark resultsWilco2011/01/14 07:24 AM
                                    Some CoreMark resultsnone2011/01/14 07:55 AM
        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/12 03:21 PM
          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 04:07 PM
            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/12 05:07 PM
              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Michael S2011/01/13 03:33 AM
                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/13 08:19 AM
                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Megol2011/01/14 03:51 AM
          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/12 04:09 PM
            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/12 05:09 PM
              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anonymous2011/01/13 05:50 AM
                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Michael S2011/01/13 06:52 AM
                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/13 09:28 AM
                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming??2011/01/14 07:48 AM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?none2011/01/14 08:01 AM
                      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?someone2011/01/14 10:03 AM
                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?none2011/01/14 02:38 PM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?someone2011/01/15 09:53 AM
                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?mpx2011/01/15 12:18 AM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Aaron Spink2011/01/15 05:03 AM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Brett2011/01/15 11:01 AM
                              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?mpx2011/01/15 12:40 PM
                              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Aaron Spink2011/01/17 03:11 PM
                                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Rob Thorpe2011/01/17 03:35 PM
                                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Michael S2011/01/17 04:23 PM
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                                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Aaron Spink2011/01/17 04:57 PM
                              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Greg Gritton2011/01/17 10:57 PM
                                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Brett2011/01/18 10:00 AM
                                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Megol2011/01/18 10:11 AM
                              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Max2011/01/18 12:34 AM
                                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Brett2011/01/18 09:39 AM
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                                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Max2011/01/18 11:17 AM
                                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Rob Thorpe2011/01/18 02:36 PM
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                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Foo_2011/01/15 02:12 AM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Matt Sayler2011/01/15 11:25 AM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?IntelUser20002011/01/16 04:20 PM
                              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Matt Sayler2011/01/16 05:02 PM
                                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Megol2011/01/17 09:18 AM
                                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Brett2011/01/17 03:58 PM
                                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Louis Gerbarg2011/01/17 05:12 PM
                                      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Brett2011/01/17 07:06 PM
                                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Louis Gerbarg2011/01/18 09:13 AM
                                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Rob Thorpe2011/01/18 02:23 PM
                                      Nice postDavid Kanter2011/01/18 10:38 AM
                            New MacBook Pros are getting closerMatt Sayler2011/02/24 08:46 AM
                      The ARM story: Earthquake looming??2011/01/16 08:29 AM
                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/16 09:08 PM
                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Gabriele Svelto2011/01/16 11:43 PM
                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Robert Myers2011/01/14 05:29 PM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Max2011/01/15 06:18 AM
        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Groo2011/01/12 03:59 PM
          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 04:40 PM
            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Groo2011/01/12 08:14 PM
        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Adrian2011/01/13 01:35 PM
          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Paul2011/01/13 04:19 PM
            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Adrian2011/01/14 02:50 AM
              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/14 06:00 AM
                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?none2011/01/14 06:26 AM
                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/14 06:46 AM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?none2011/01/14 07:02 AM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/14 08:42 AM
                      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Richard Cownie2011/01/14 09:06 AM
                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?someone2011/01/14 10:20 AM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?fastpathguru2011/01/14 11:22 AM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Richard Cownie2011/01/14 05:01 PM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Aaron Spink2011/01/15 05:07 AM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?slacker2011/01/15 03:08 PM
                              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Jukka Larja2011/01/16 12:44 AM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?mpx2011/01/15 04:08 AM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Paul2011/01/15 08:20 AM
                        The ARM story: 64 bit or bust?Kevin G2011/01/14 04:21 PM
                          The ARM story: 64 bit or bust?someone2011/01/15 09:48 AM
                      Bye, bye native binarympx2011/01/14 11:51 PM
                        Bye, bye native binaryExophase2011/01/18 05:39 PM
                      RISC with 16 GPRs!?anon2011/01/19 04:42 PM
                        RISC with 16 GPRs!?Exophase2011/01/19 05:20 PM
                        doomed ARM sells 6B cores/yearRichard Cownie2011/01/19 09:01 PM
      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/12 09:30 PM
      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?mpx2011/01/13 03:05 AM
  Not a chance in hellRohit2011/01/12 06:49 AM
  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?notsure2011/01/12 11:39 AM
  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?mpx2011/01/13 03:27 AM
  The _Android_ story: Earthquake looming?fastpathguru2011/01/13 10:50 AM
    Internet + web apps + multimedia = enablermpx2011/01/14 01:11 AM
    The _Android_ story: Earthquake looming?Will Smith2011/01/14 08:48 AM
  Notebook vendors show no interest in Oak Trail Nicki Minaj2011/01/16 05:37 PM
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