The ARM story: Earthquake looming?

By: Adrian (a.delete@this.acm.org), January 13, 2011 2:35 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Wilco (Wilco.Dijkstra@ntlworld.com) on 1/12/11 wrote:
---------------------------
>There is full compatibility between the different ARM cores, you can run a binary
>compiled for one architecture on any other CPU of the same architecture or higher.
>And that is something that cannot ever be done on x86 - there will never be 2 x86
>cores with the same instruction set (Intel and AMD support different non-overlapping
>ISAs). ARM on the other hand requires all ARM cores to be compatible, even if you design your own ARM core.


This is not at all true. For example now I am writing some program for processors that implement the ARMv7-M architecture and these are not binary compatible with the processors that I was using 5 years ago, which implemented the ARMv4T architecture.

The main reason is that this architecture variant has dropped support for the classic ARM instruction encoding and it only supports the new Thumb2 instruction encoding.

I am actually very happy with this lack of binary compatibility, I certainly do not want to use for an embedded application a processor that, like x86, has a huge number of processor modes whose only purpose is to run ancient programs that cannot be recompiled.

Besides this more extreme example, many ARM cores have implementation options that can be chosen freely by the licensee and that can lead to incompatibilities, but those are typically limited to a few programs, e.g. exception handlers. Nevertheless, when you write an OS for ARM, you must know not only the exact architecture version implemented by the target core, but also the implementation options chosen by the manufacturer.

There is a huge number of ARM architecture versions, most of which are obsolete. The obsolete versions are no longer documented in the current architecture manuals. (But ARM Ltd. is supposed to be able to provide that information upon request.)

ARM does not have an equivalent for the x86 CPUID, so if you happen to have a really old ARM processor and an ARM binary program, it can be very difficult to figure out if you can run the program on that processor or not.

In conclusion, the binary compatibility of ARM processors is certainly worse than for x86 processors, but I believe this to be an advantage for ARM, which allows more efficient core implementations.

I actually disapprove the fact that certain ARM architecture versions, beginning with ARMv6, in an effort to provide better compatibility, mandate the support for features that are not of general interest, e.g. for Jazelle. I will never need Jazelle support and I resent having to buy a processor that wastes resources for this, just because I need another feature that is implemented by that architecture version.






















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TopicPosted ByDate
The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Will Smith2011/01/12 01:30 AM
  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Max2011/01/12 02:50 AM
    Any x86 -> ARM port experience?Ben Harper2011/01/12 04:22 AM
      Any x86 -> ARM port experience?Michael S2011/01/12 07:52 AM
        Any x86 -> ARM port experience?Megol2011/01/12 10:10 AM
          Any x86 -> ARM port experience?Michael S2011/01/12 11:19 AM
            Any x86 -> ARM port experience?Wilco2011/01/12 12:47 PM
              badly written?Michael S2011/01/12 01:59 PM
                badly written?Wilco2011/01/12 03:03 PM
                  badly written?Megol2011/01/13 05:16 AM
                    badly written?Wilco2011/01/13 07:09 AM
                      badly written?Megol2011/01/14 03:28 AM
                        badly written?Wilco2011/01/14 07:20 AM
                  badly written?mpx2011/01/13 09:19 AM
                    badly written?James2011/01/14 04:15 AM
                  unaligned read is fast on NehalemRichard Cownie2011/01/13 10:10 AM
                    unaligned read is fast on NehalemLinus Torvalds2011/01/13 10:45 AM
                      l1 access size?anon2011/01/13 12:16 PM
                      unaligned read is fast on NehalemRichard Cownie2011/01/13 12:21 PM
                      unaligned read is fast on NehalemEduardoS2011/01/13 04:42 PM
                        unaligned read is fast on NehalemMichael S2011/01/13 04:50 PM
                        unaligned read is fast on NehalemRichard Cownie2011/01/13 05:50 PM
                      unaligned read is fast on NehalemKonrad Schwarz2011/01/17 07:28 AM
                badly written?anoneeeemouse2011/01/12 06:31 PM
              And endianness?Ben Harper2011/01/13 05:34 AM
                And endianness?rwessel2011/01/13 05:40 AM
                  And endianness?Wilco2011/01/13 06:20 AM
                    And endianness?Ben Harper2011/01/13 08:11 AM
                    And endianness?Konrad Schwarz2011/01/17 07:20 AM
                      And endianness?Megol2011/01/17 11:09 AM
        Any x86 -> ARM port experience?EduardoS2011/01/12 02:30 PM
      Any x86 -> ARM port experience?anon2011/01/12 10:53 AM
        Any x86 -> ARM port experience?anon2011/01/12 10:28 PM
          Any x86 -> ARM port experience?anon2011/01/12 10:52 PM
    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/12 11:44 AM
      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 03:53 PM
        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/12 04:14 PM
          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 04:20 PM
            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/12 04:36 PM
              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 05:17 PM
                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Aaron Spink2011/01/12 05:46 PM
                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 05:54 PM
                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/12 05:49 PM
                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 06:20 PM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/12 07:20 PM
                      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 08:51 PM
                    Some CoreMark resultsPaul A. Clayton2011/01/12 07:41 PM
                      Some CoreMark resultsWilco2011/01/12 10:49 PM
                        Some CoreMark resultsPaul A. Clayton2011/01/13 09:14 AM
                          Some CoreMark resultsWilco2011/01/13 12:31 PM
                            Some CoreMark resultsLinus Torvalds2011/01/13 12:36 PM
                              Some CoreMark resultsanonymous2011/01/13 01:05 PM
                              Some CoreMark resultsWilco2011/01/13 01:15 PM
                                Some CoreMark resultsLinus Torvalds2011/01/13 03:02 PM
                                  Some CoreMark resultsWilco2011/01/14 08:24 AM
                                    Some CoreMark resultsnone2011/01/14 08:55 AM
        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/12 04:21 PM
          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 05:07 PM
            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/12 06:07 PM
              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Michael S2011/01/13 04:33 AM
                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/13 09:19 AM
                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Megol2011/01/14 04:51 AM
          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/12 05:09 PM
            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/12 06:09 PM
              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anonymous2011/01/13 06:50 AM
                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Michael S2011/01/13 07:52 AM
                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/13 10:28 AM
                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming??2011/01/14 08:48 AM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?none2011/01/14 09:01 AM
                      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?someone2011/01/14 11:03 AM
                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?none2011/01/14 03:38 PM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?someone2011/01/15 10:53 AM
                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?mpx2011/01/15 01:18 AM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Aaron Spink2011/01/15 06:03 AM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Brett2011/01/15 12:01 PM
                              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?mpx2011/01/15 01:40 PM
                              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Aaron Spink2011/01/17 04:11 PM
                                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Rob Thorpe2011/01/17 04:35 PM
                                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Michael S2011/01/17 05:23 PM
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                                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Aaron Spink2011/01/17 05:57 PM
                              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Greg Gritton2011/01/17 11:57 PM
                                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Brett2011/01/18 11:00 AM
                                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Megol2011/01/18 11:11 AM
                              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Max2011/01/18 01:34 AM
                                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Brett2011/01/18 10:39 AM
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                                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Max2011/01/18 12:17 PM
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                                                      Mythical Linus?2011/01/25 07:16 AM
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                                              TRIM (was Quad pixel?)Megol2011/01/20 03:29 AM
                                                TRIM (was Quad pixel?)Linus Torvalds2011/01/20 10:05 AM
                                                  TRIM (was Quad pixel?)Rob Thorpe2011/01/22 01:30 PM
                                                    TRIM (was Quad pixel?)anon2011/01/22 07:07 PM
                                                      TRIMDavid Kanter2011/01/24 02:05 PM
                                                        TRIManon2011/01/24 02:57 PM
                                                          TRIMMS2011/01/24 03:22 PM
                                                            TRIMDan Downs2011/01/24 06:44 PM
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                                                            TRIManon2011/01/24 07:29 PM
                                                              TRIMMS2011/01/24 08:40 PM
                                                            TRIMRicardo B2011/01/25 03:40 PM
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                                                              TRIMAnon2011/01/24 09:28 PM
                                                                TRIMRichard Cownie2011/01/25 07:39 AM
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                                                                    TRIM Linus is rightMax2011/01/25 12:30 PM
                                                                      TRIM Linus is rightMichael S2011/01/25 01:17 PM
                                                                        TRIM Linus is rightMax2011/01/25 06:15 PM
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                                                                          TRIM Linus is rightgallier22011/01/26 02:26 AM
                                                                          TRIM Linus is rightanon2011/01/26 09:30 PM
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                                                                          TRIM Linus is rightiz2011/01/26 03:19 AM
                                                                            Linus is wrong - TRIM is *essential*?2011/01/26 05:04 AM
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                                                                                  NAND flash latenciesslacker2011/01/26 07:14 PM
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                                                                                              NAND flash latencies -- Correctioniz2011/01/27 07:54 PM
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                                                                                                  NAND flash latencies -- CorrectionMS2011/01/28 03:06 PM
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                                                                      Linus is HALF rightDarrell Coker2011/01/25 07:36 PM
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                                                                        EXT4 *not* heavily optimized for rotating media?2011/01/26 02:34 AM
                                                                  TRIMAnon2011/01/25 09:00 PM
                                              The alternative to TRIMMax2011/01/20 11:35 AM
                                                The alternative to TRIManon2011/01/20 04:57 PM
                                                  The alternative to TRIMMax2011/01/21 02:27 AM
                                                The alternative to TRIMDan Downs2011/01/20 05:18 PM
                                                  The alternative to TRIMAaron Spink2011/01/20 05:34 PM
                                                    The alternative to TRIMLinus Torvalds2011/01/20 06:16 PM
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                                                  Another Alternative to Trimiz2011/01/22 06:43 PM
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                                                      Another Alternative to Trimiz2011/01/23 05:20 AM
                                                      Another Alternative to Trimmpx2011/01/23 12:00 PM
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                                      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Rob Thorpe2011/01/19 01:57 PM
                                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Brett2011/01/19 03:35 PM
                                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Aaron Spink2011/01/19 08:30 PM
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                                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Ungo2011/01/19 05:54 AM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?mpx2011/01/15 01:32 PM
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                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?slacker2011/01/15 04:03 PM
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                      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?a reader2011/01/14 07:25 PM
                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Foo_2011/01/15 03:12 AM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Matt Sayler2011/01/15 12:25 PM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?IntelUser20002011/01/16 05:20 PM
                              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Matt Sayler2011/01/16 06:02 PM
                                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Megol2011/01/17 10:18 AM
                                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Brett2011/01/17 04:58 PM
                                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Louis Gerbarg2011/01/17 06:12 PM
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                                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Louis Gerbarg2011/01/18 10:13 AM
                                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Rob Thorpe2011/01/18 03:23 PM
                                      Nice postDavid Kanter2011/01/18 11:38 AM
                            New MacBook Pros are getting closerMatt Sayler2011/02/24 09:46 AM
                      The ARM story: Earthquake looming??2011/01/16 09:29 AM
                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/16 10:08 PM
                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Gabriele Svelto2011/01/17 12:43 AM
                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Robert Myers2011/01/14 06:29 PM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Max2011/01/15 07:18 AM
        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Groo2011/01/12 04:59 PM
          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 05:40 PM
            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Groo2011/01/12 09:14 PM
        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Adrian2011/01/13 02:35 PM
          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Paul2011/01/13 05:19 PM
            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Adrian2011/01/14 03:50 AM
              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/14 07:00 AM
                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?none2011/01/14 07:26 AM
                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/14 07:46 AM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?none2011/01/14 08:02 AM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/14 09:42 AM
                      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Richard Cownie2011/01/14 10:06 AM
                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?someone2011/01/14 11:20 AM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?fastpathguru2011/01/14 12:22 PM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Richard Cownie2011/01/14 06:01 PM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Aaron Spink2011/01/15 06:07 AM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?slacker2011/01/15 04:08 PM
                              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Jukka Larja2011/01/16 01:44 AM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?mpx2011/01/15 05:08 AM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Paul2011/01/15 09:20 AM
                        The ARM story: 64 bit or bust?Kevin G2011/01/14 05:21 PM
                          The ARM story: 64 bit or bust?someone2011/01/15 10:48 AM
                      Bye, bye native binarympx2011/01/15 12:51 AM
                        Bye, bye native binaryExophase2011/01/18 06:39 PM
                      RISC with 16 GPRs!?anon2011/01/19 05:42 PM
                        RISC with 16 GPRs!?Exophase2011/01/19 06:20 PM
                        doomed ARM sells 6B cores/yearRichard Cownie2011/01/19 10:01 PM
      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/12 10:30 PM
      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?mpx2011/01/13 04:05 AM
  Not a chance in hellRohit2011/01/12 07:49 AM
  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?notsure2011/01/12 12:39 PM
  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?mpx2011/01/13 04:27 AM
  The _Android_ story: Earthquake looming?fastpathguru2011/01/13 11:50 AM
    Internet + web apps + multimedia = enablermpx2011/01/14 02:11 AM
    The _Android_ story: Earthquake looming?Will Smith2011/01/14 09:48 AM
  Notebook vendors show no interest in Oak Trail Nicki Minaj2011/01/16 06:37 PM
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