The ARM story: Earthquake looming?

By: Linus Torvalds (torvalds.delete@this.linux-foundation.org), January 14, 2011 8:42 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Wilco (Wilco.Dijkstra@ntlworld.com) on 1/14/11 wrote:
>
>The situation on x86 is that CPU 1 implements instructions 1-20, CPU 2 implements
>1-30, CPU 3 implements 1-50 but not instruction 10, CPU 4 does 1-75 but not instruction 20 and so on.

Umm. Let me speak from some experience here.

It's pretty much trivial to cover the whole x86
spectrum with two kernel binaries: one for 32-bit space,
and one for 64-bit. That's what every single Linux distro
does these days (there might be two: historically we used
to do SMP and UP separately, and if you want to support
i386-class machines you still want to do it, but I don't
think people do).

So your "x86 instruction set fragmentation" argument is
pure and utter bullsh*t. Yes, there are options, but they
are not hard to handle, and people have left some of them
behind.

ARM, on the other hand? Not so much. And the ARM instruction
set is just the tip of the pain iceberg. Going at all away
from the CPU core, you get into a whole another dimension
of pain.

The fact is, Wilco, that ARM is much harder to
handle from a fragmentation standpoint. Contrary to your
wild theories.

ARM is only easy if you work purely in user space and do
nothing interesting (ie no FP optimization issues, no
virtual mapping issues, no threading, no nothing). Then you
only have a couple of gross cases to worry about. But even
then you do have a couple of cases.

Of course, I get the feeling that you're a compiler person.
So you'd never see or care about the problems I am talking
about, because they are all "undefined behavior" as far as
you're concerned.

Linus
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TopicPosted ByDate
The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Will Smith2011/01/12 12:30 AM
  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Max2011/01/12 01:50 AM
    Any x86 -> ARM port experience?Ben Harper2011/01/12 03:22 AM
      Any x86 -> ARM port experience?Michael S2011/01/12 06:52 AM
        Any x86 -> ARM port experience?Megol2011/01/12 09:10 AM
          Any x86 -> ARM port experience?Michael S2011/01/12 10:19 AM
            Any x86 -> ARM port experience?Wilco2011/01/12 11:47 AM
              badly written?Michael S2011/01/12 12:59 PM
                badly written?Wilco2011/01/12 02:03 PM
                  badly written?Megol2011/01/13 04:16 AM
                    badly written?Wilco2011/01/13 06:09 AM
                      badly written?Megol2011/01/14 02:28 AM
                        badly written?Wilco2011/01/14 06:20 AM
                  badly written?mpx2011/01/13 08:19 AM
                    badly written?James2011/01/14 03:15 AM
                  unaligned read is fast on NehalemRichard Cownie2011/01/13 09:10 AM
                    unaligned read is fast on NehalemLinus Torvalds2011/01/13 09:45 AM
                      l1 access size?anon2011/01/13 11:16 AM
                      unaligned read is fast on NehalemRichard Cownie2011/01/13 11:21 AM
                      unaligned read is fast on NehalemEduardoS2011/01/13 03:42 PM
                        unaligned read is fast on NehalemMichael S2011/01/13 03:50 PM
                        unaligned read is fast on NehalemRichard Cownie2011/01/13 04:50 PM
                      unaligned read is fast on NehalemKonrad Schwarz2011/01/17 06:28 AM
                badly written?anoneeeemouse2011/01/12 05:31 PM
              And endianness?Ben Harper2011/01/13 04:34 AM
                And endianness?rwessel2011/01/13 04:40 AM
                  And endianness?Wilco2011/01/13 05:20 AM
                    And endianness?Ben Harper2011/01/13 07:11 AM
                    And endianness?Konrad Schwarz2011/01/17 06:20 AM
                      And endianness?Megol2011/01/17 10:09 AM
        Any x86 -> ARM port experience?EduardoS2011/01/12 01:30 PM
      Any x86 -> ARM port experience?anon2011/01/12 09:53 AM
        Any x86 -> ARM port experience?anon2011/01/12 09:28 PM
          Any x86 -> ARM port experience?anon2011/01/12 09:52 PM
    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/12 10:44 AM
      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 02:53 PM
        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/12 03:14 PM
          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 03:20 PM
            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/12 03:36 PM
              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 04:17 PM
                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Aaron Spink2011/01/12 04:46 PM
                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 04:54 PM
                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/12 04:49 PM
                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 05:20 PM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/12 06:20 PM
                      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 07:51 PM
                    Some CoreMark resultsPaul A. Clayton2011/01/12 06:41 PM
                      Some CoreMark resultsWilco2011/01/12 09:49 PM
                        Some CoreMark resultsPaul A. Clayton2011/01/13 08:14 AM
                          Some CoreMark resultsWilco2011/01/13 11:31 AM
                            Some CoreMark resultsLinus Torvalds2011/01/13 11:36 AM
                              Some CoreMark resultsanonymous2011/01/13 12:05 PM
                              Some CoreMark resultsWilco2011/01/13 12:15 PM
                                Some CoreMark resultsLinus Torvalds2011/01/13 02:02 PM
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                                    Some CoreMark resultsnone2011/01/14 07:55 AM
        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/12 03:21 PM
          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 04:07 PM
            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/12 05:07 PM
              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Michael S2011/01/13 03:33 AM
                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/13 08:19 AM
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          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/12 04:09 PM
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              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anonymous2011/01/13 05:50 AM
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                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/16 09:08 PM
                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Gabriele Svelto2011/01/16 11:43 PM
                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Robert Myers2011/01/14 05:29 PM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Max2011/01/15 06:18 AM
        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Groo2011/01/12 03:59 PM
          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/12 04:40 PM
            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Groo2011/01/12 08:14 PM
        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Adrian2011/01/13 01:35 PM
          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Paul2011/01/13 04:19 PM
            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Adrian2011/01/14 02:50 AM
              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/14 06:00 AM
                The ARM story: Earthquake looming?none2011/01/14 06:26 AM
                  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Wilco2011/01/14 06:46 AM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?none2011/01/14 07:02 AM
                    The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Linus Torvalds2011/01/14 08:42 AM
                      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Richard Cownie2011/01/14 09:06 AM
                        The ARM story: Earthquake looming?someone2011/01/14 10:20 AM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?fastpathguru2011/01/14 11:22 AM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Richard Cownie2011/01/14 05:01 PM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Aaron Spink2011/01/15 05:07 AM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?slacker2011/01/15 03:08 PM
                              The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Jukka Larja2011/01/16 12:44 AM
                          The ARM story: Earthquake looming?mpx2011/01/15 04:08 AM
                            The ARM story: Earthquake looming?Paul2011/01/15 08:20 AM
                        The ARM story: 64 bit or bust?Kevin G2011/01/14 04:21 PM
                          The ARM story: 64 bit or bust?someone2011/01/15 09:48 AM
                      Bye, bye native binarympx2011/01/14 11:51 PM
                        Bye, bye native binaryExophase2011/01/18 05:39 PM
                      RISC with 16 GPRs!?anon2011/01/19 04:42 PM
                        RISC with 16 GPRs!?Exophase2011/01/19 05:20 PM
                        doomed ARM sells 6B cores/yearRichard Cownie2011/01/19 09:01 PM
      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?anon2011/01/12 09:30 PM
      The ARM story: Earthquake looming?mpx2011/01/13 03:05 AM
  Not a chance in hellRohit2011/01/12 06:49 AM
  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?notsure2011/01/12 11:39 AM
  The ARM story: Earthquake looming?mpx2011/01/13 03:27 AM
  The _Android_ story: Earthquake looming?fastpathguru2011/01/13 10:50 AM
    Internet + web apps + multimedia = enablermpx2011/01/14 01:11 AM
    The _Android_ story: Earthquake looming?Will Smith2011/01/14 08:48 AM
  Notebook vendors show no interest in Oak Trail Nicki Minaj2011/01/16 05:37 PM
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