Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HP

Article: HP Wins Oracle Lawsuit
By: Kira (kirsc.delete@this.aeterna.ru), August 6, 2012 1:36 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
blaine (myname.delete@this.acm.org) on August 6, 2012 12:33 pm wrote:
> Kira (kirsc.delete@this.aeterna.ru) on August 6, 2012 1:46 am wrote:
> >
> Michael S (already5chosen.delete@this.yahoo.com) on August 6, 2012 1:42 am
>
> > wrote:
> > > Kira (kirsc.delete@this.aeterna.ru) on August 6, 2012
> 1:25 am
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > Michael S
> (already5chosen.delete@this.yahoo.com) on
> > August 6, 2012 1:02 am
> >
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > David Kanter
> >
> (dkanter.delete@this.realworldtech.com) on
> > > August 5,
> > > >
> 2012 3:49
> > pm
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> >
> > > Oracle keep
> > supporting the (far
> > > > slower)
> M-series
> > > > > SPARC?
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> >
> > > > > > Honestly,
> > > > > >
> >
> the
> > > > 'Itanium has
> > > bad performance' excuse
> > >
> > >
> > makes no sense. It's definitely
> > > >
> > >
> faster
> > > > > >
> > than Niagara and potentially the
> >
> > > > Fujitsu
> > >
> > > >
> > M-series.
> > >
> > >
> > > > > Potentially!? What it supposed to
> > mean?
>
> > > Wait for
> > > > >
> > > > Poulson?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > > I'd expect
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> > > > > fully loaded
> > > M9000
> >
> > >
> > > (64-socket SPARC64 VII+) to be approximately
> > > > twice
>
> >
> > > faster
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> >
> > > > >
> > than fully loaded
> > > Superdome2
>
> > > > (32-socket Tukwila) in majority
> > of
> > > > >
> >
> > > >
> > > > commercial
> > > > >
> >
> >
> > > > > applications.
> > > > > >
> > >
>
> > > >
> > > > > Do you have a hard data
> > > >
> >
> > > > that could
> >
> > >
> > > > > >
> contradict my
> > > > > > >
> > expectations?
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > > I
> >
> think
> > > > > the relevant comparison point
> > > is
> >
> > > >
> > > Poulson,
> > > > as it should be out any day
>
> > > > >
> > >
> > now.
> > > > > >
> >
> > > > > I'm a little
> > > >
> > surprised that they
>
> > >
> > > > > > only have 32S systems,
> > >
> >
> > > since they used to
> > > >
> > > scale up to 64S...and
> now they
> > have
> > > > > > better
> > > > >
>
> > > >
> > >
> > interconnects.
> > > > >
> >
> > > > That's the same as Fujitsu. Back
> > in
> > > dual-core
> days
> > > > they used
> > > > > to scale up to
> >
> 128S, but now the
> > > biggest M9000 is 64S.
> > > > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But I
>
> > >
> > > > > don't
> > perceive Itanium as being
> >
> > > dramatically
> > > > > >
> > >
> > slower than
> Fujitsu.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > DK
> > > > >
> > > >
> > Well, perception is one
> > thing and the facts is
> > > something
>
> > > > else.
> > > > > We
> >
> > > > >
> certainly don't have enough
> > > facts to know whether top HP
> >
>
> > > > gear is "dramatically
> > > > > slower"
> > >
> that than top
> > Fujitsu M-series or just a
> > > > little slower.
> But, IMO, we
> > >
> > >
> > > > have enough info to be sure
> that Kira's
> > > > original claim
> >
> > > (M-series is far
> slower
> > > > > than Integrity) is false.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > > >
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> Anyway, the
> > comparison between supporting Itanium
> > > >
> >
> > > and
> > > >
> > supporting M-series was invalid regardless
> of relative
> > > performance, for
> >
> > > > more
> > >
> > > than one reason:
> > > > > 1. Oracle
> >
> > >
> resells M-series. So, it's partly
> > > > their own.
> > > >
> >
> > 2.
> > > > >
> > > Incremental effort required to
> support M-series on
> >
> > > > top of T-series (the
> > >
> same OS,
> > > > > the same ISA,
> > mostly the same toolchain) is
>
> > > > far lower
> > > than required to
> > support
> >
> > > > HP-UX/Itanium on top of ... well ...
> > > >
> > >
>
> > nothing.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Where's
> this proof that Tuk is
> > slower than S64
> > > VII? I posted
> >
> > > SPEC numbers. Are you seriously
> > claiming that a chip that
>
> > > has significantly
> > > > lower SPECint
> > numbers, a
> smaller cache, a shared bus,
> > > an off-chip memory
> > > >
>
> > controller, and supports an older generation of
> > > memory... is
> faster?
> > Evidence,
> > > > please? Or at least a rationale?
> >
> >
> > > Well,
> > >
> > see TCP-H below.
> > > But even
> your own SpecInt_rate scores show single Tukwila
> >
> > > socket slower
> than *two* Sparc64 VII+
> > > sockets.
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.spec.org/cpu2006/results/res2010q4/cpu2006-20101201-13867
> > >
>
> > .html
> > >
> >
> http://www.spec.org/cpu2006/results/res2010q2/cpu2006-20100426-10756.html
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > 882 vs 531
> > > Is it not
> enough?
> > >
> >
> > Your original claim
> > was that 64s M9K
> would be twice as fast as 32s SD2. That's not at all supported
> > by, well,
> anything aside from that TPC-H result.
> >
> > And while we're dipping
> into
> > TPC-H, SPARC T4 is the fastest processor in the world. I think we
> both know just
> > how true that is...
>
> Are you comparing a 64 core 8 socket
> sparc result with a 32 core 8 socket Itanium blade result.
>

No, I don't think anyone is, given that there is not currently an 8-socket-capable 8-core SPARC, and likely won't be until T5.
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TopicPosted ByDate
Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPDavid Kanter2012/08/01 12:02 PM
  Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPJoel2012/08/01 12:27 PM
    Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPAlberto2012/08/01 12:50 PM
    HP-UX goes to Xeonmpx2012/08/01 11:20 PM
      HP-UX goes to XeonGabriele Svelto2012/08/02 12:00 AM
        Project OdysseyPaul A. Clayton2012/08/02 04:20 AM
          Project OdysseyRicardo B2012/08/02 05:31 AM
            Project Odysseysomeone2012/08/02 06:38 AM
              Project Odysseyrwessel2012/08/02 06:54 AM
                Project OdysseyRicardo B2012/08/02 07:08 AM
                  Project OdysseyMichael S2012/08/02 08:15 AM
                    Project Odysseyrwessel2012/08/02 09:43 AM
  Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. Oraclempx2012/08/01 01:37 PM
    Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. OracleMark Roulo2012/08/01 02:08 PM
      Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. Oraclempx2012/08/02 01:01 AM
        Do you have a reference for the HP/Oracle agreement?Mark Roulo2012/08/02 06:36 AM
          "quality of support" MS2012/08/02 09:44 AM
            "quality of support" mpx2012/08/03 10:53 AM
        Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. Oraclempx2012/08/02 08:06 AM
        Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. OracleAnonymouse2012/08/04 09:55 PM
          Thank you for finding that! (NT)David Kanter2012/08/05 01:20 AM
            Thank you for finding that!mpx2012/08/05 03:58 AM
    Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. OracleDavid Kanter2012/08/01 02:30 PM
      Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. Oraclempx2012/08/01 11:01 PM
        Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. OracleAnonymouse2012/08/04 10:01 PM
          Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. Oraclempx2012/08/05 03:56 AM
            Do you work for Oracle?David Kanter2012/08/05 09:28 AM
              Do you work for Oracle?mpx2012/08/05 01:00 PM
                What you missedGroo2012/08/06 10:22 AM
                  What you missedmpx2012/08/08 11:26 AM
                    What you missedGroo2012/08/08 01:59 PM
  Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPdefderdar2012/08/01 01:52 PM
    Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPMark Roulo2012/08/01 02:10 PM
    Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPmpx2012/08/01 10:19 PM
      Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPKira2012/08/05 01:26 PM
        Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPMichael S2012/08/05 01:55 PM
          Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPDavid Kanter2012/08/05 02:49 PM
            Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPKira2012/08/05 04:46 PM
            Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPMichael S2012/08/06 12:02 AM
              Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPKira2012/08/06 12:25 AM
                Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPMichael S2012/08/06 12:42 AM
                  Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPKira2012/08/06 12:46 AM
                    Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPblaine2012/08/06 11:33 AM
                      Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPKira2012/08/06 01:36 PM
          Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPKira2012/08/05 04:45 PM
            Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPMichael S2012/08/06 12:33 AM
              Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPKira2012/08/06 12:44 AM
                Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPMichael S2012/08/06 01:07 AM
                  SAP-SD 2-tier new reporting rulesMichael S2012/08/06 01:15 AM
          Article: HP Likely to Win Lawsuit vs. HPmpx2012/08/05 11:54 PM
            M-series roadmapMichael S2012/08/06 02:16 AM
              M-series roadmapmpx2012/08/06 11:01 PM
                M-series roadmapMichael S2012/08/07 12:34 AM
                  M-series roadmapEduardoS2012/08/07 12:54 AM
                    M-series roadmapMichael S2012/08/07 02:24 AM
                      M-series roadmapEduardoS2012/08/07 03:57 AM
                        M-series roadmapMichael S2012/08/07 01:17 PM
    Like not doing profiling? (NT)Megol2012/08/02 06:11 AM
  Oracle's actions a boon to FLOSS?Win Lawsuit vs. HPPaul A. Clayton2012/08/01 02:18 PM
    Oracle's actions a boon to FLOSS?Win Lawsuit vs. HPJoel2012/08/01 03:43 PM
      Oracle's actions a boon to FLOSS?Win Lawsuit vs. HPDavid Kanter2012/08/01 04:53 PM
      I meant in generalPaul A. Clayton2012/08/01 06:02 PM
        I meant in generalEric2012/08/02 11:55 AM
          Spirit of the agreementblaine2012/08/03 06:45 AM
            Spirit of the agreementGroo2012/08/03 08:09 AM
  OEL?Kira2012/08/01 02:44 PM
    OEL?David Kanter2012/08/01 04:50 PM
      OEL?Ricardo B2012/08/02 05:16 AM
    OEL?Kevin G2012/08/01 06:08 PM
      OEL?Steve Underwood2012/08/02 07:34 PM
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