Implications of Broadwell packaging?

By: Linus Torvalds (, December 20, 2012 7:46 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Doug S ( on December 20, 2012 12:43 am wrote:
> If Thunderbolt could do more than 10 watts, or large displays became more efficient,
> you could eliminate the monitor power and have only one additional cable...

Grr. You triggered my hot button on TB.

TB power delivery goes the wrong way!

Thunderbolt was clearly designed as a "faster USB" and the people involved were so set in that mindset that they apparently never realized that the much more useful model for TB was "standard dock", especially with the whole DP thing.

Nobody sane wants to use thunderbolt as a USB replacement - you have USB for that. USB sure as hell isn't perfect, but at least it's cheap, and it's everywhere. And it's good enough for most things. And the things it isn't good enough for are not portable, and generally need their own power source anyway.

But if the power delivery had gone the other way, TB would have been a really useful feature. Imagine docking your laptop by just plugging in the TB cable. You're done.

The TB designers messed up. Completely.

Anybody who thinks that the computer should power the display (rather than the other way around) is a moron.

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TopicPosted ByDate
Implications of Broadwell packaging?Paul A. Clayton2012/12/03 10:36 AM
  Implications of Broadwell packaging?Ricardo B2012/12/03 11:22 AM
    Implications of Broadwell packaging?Doug S2012/12/03 04:18 PM
  Remanufacturing BGAsRicardo B2012/12/03 11:26 AM
    Inherent difficulty/cost?Paul A. Clayton2012/12/03 11:47 AM
      Inherent difficulty/cost?Gabriele Svelto2012/12/03 12:12 PM
        Remanufacturing != manufacturingPaul A. Clayton2012/12/03 08:19 PM
          Remanufacturing != manufacturingGabriele Svelto2012/12/04 04:01 AM
            Replace is too much cheaper than repairPaul A. Clayton2012/12/04 10:51 AM
              Replace is too much cheaper than repairDoug S2012/12/04 01:15 PM
                I agree, but ...Paul A. Clayton2012/12/04 03:31 PM
                  I agree, but ...Doug S2012/12/04 04:49 PM
                    Yes, repairability may just not be practical (NT)Paul A. Clayton2012/12/05 06:47 AM
              Replace is too much cheaper than repairGabriele Svelto2012/12/04 02:47 PM
                Replace is too much cheaper than repairRicardo B2012/12/04 05:08 PM
                Replace is too much cheaper than repairUngo2012/12/04 07:04 PM
    Remanufacturing BGAsGabriele Svelto2012/12/03 12:16 PM
      Remanufacturing BGAsRicardo B2012/12/04 05:31 AM
    Remanufacturing BGAsRichard Cownie2012/12/03 02:52 PM
      will fansinks be gone ?Richard Cownie2012/12/03 02:56 PM
        will fansinks be gone ?Wouter Tinus2012/12/03 03:37 PM
          will fansinks be gone ?Paul2012/12/03 04:02 PM
            will fansinks be gone ?Doug S2012/12/03 08:03 PM
              will fansinks be gone ?Ungo2012/12/04 07:55 PM
                will fansinks be gone ?Doug S2012/12/05 11:37 AM
                  will fansinks be gone ?Ricardo B2012/12/05 01:47 PM
                    will fansinks be gone ?Doug S2012/12/06 12:46 PM
                  will fansinks be gone ?Ungo2012/12/05 09:14 PM
                    will fansinks be gone ?Doug S2012/12/06 12:46 PM
                      will fansinks be gone ?rwessel2012/12/06 01:31 PM
                        will fansinks be gone ?Doug S2012/12/07 12:32 PM
            will fansinks be gone ?Gabriele Svelto2012/12/04 04:07 AM
            will fanless be the majority?Richard Cownie2012/12/04 07:05 PM
              will fanless be the majority?Ricardo B2012/12/05 10:29 AM
                will fanless be the majority?Doug S2012/12/05 12:25 PM
                will fanless be the majority?Richard Cownie2012/12/06 02:26 PM
                  Contained fluid heat sink?Paul A. Clayton2012/12/06 05:03 PM
                    Contained fluid heat sink?Sysanon2012/12/06 06:02 PM
                      So fanless heatsinks existPaul A. Clayton2012/12/06 07:14 PM
                        So fanless heatsinks existRichard Cownie2012/12/06 07:21 PM
                  will fanless be the majority?Ricardo B2012/12/06 05:14 PM
                    will fanless be the majority?Jukka Larja2012/12/07 07:15 AM
                      will fanless be the majority?Salvatore De Dominicis2012/12/11 12:54 PM
                will fanless be the majority?bakaneko2012/12/07 09:54 AM
          fanless is not commonMax2012/12/03 08:21 PM
          will fansinks be gone ?none2012/12/04 06:17 AM
        will fansinks be gone ?Ungo2012/12/03 03:55 PM
          will fansinks be gone ?Jukka Larja2012/12/04 09:02 AM
    Remanufacturing BGAsAnon2012/12/03 04:56 PM
    Remanufacturing BGAsMegol2012/12/04 12:48 PM
      Remanufacturing BGAsRicardo B2012/12/04 05:22 PM
        Remanufacturing BGAsMegol2012/12/06 05:15 AM
          Remanufacturing BGAsRicardo B2012/12/07 09:32 AM
  Implications of Broadwell packaging?bakaneko2012/12/04 09:28 AM
    Implications of Broadwell packaging?Gabriele Svelto2012/12/04 09:41 AM
      future of workstationsbakaneko2012/12/04 11:24 AM
        future of workstationsGabriele Svelto2012/12/04 02:45 PM
          correctionGabriele Svelto2012/12/04 06:39 PM
      Implications of Broadwell packaging?David Kanter2012/12/17 08:27 PM
        Implications of Broadwell packaging?Doug S2012/12/17 09:14 PM
          Implications of Broadwell packaging?Soupdragon2012/12/18 03:03 AM
            Implications of Broadwell packaging?Gabriele Svelto2012/12/18 03:08 AM
              Implications of Broadwell packaging?Megol2012/12/18 10:00 AM
          Xeons for desktop.Jouni Osmala2012/12/18 08:27 AM
            Xeons for desktop.Kevin G2012/12/18 10:40 AM
              Xeons for desktop.Michael S2012/12/18 03:59 PM
                Xeons for desktop.Kevin G2012/12/20 11:28 AM
        Eliminating almost all desktop SKUsDoug S2012/12/18 01:24 PM
          Eliminating almost all desktop SKUsRicardo B2012/12/19 04:08 AM
            Why the need for trust?Paul A. Clayton2012/12/19 09:16 AM
              Wicked! But technially feasible IMHO. (NT)Ricardo B2012/12/19 09:43 AM
          Eliminating almost all desktop SKUsDavid Kanter2012/12/19 08:53 AM
      Implications of Broadwell packaging?Michael S2012/12/18 05:09 AM
    Implications of Broadwell packaging?Doug S2012/12/04 01:27 PM
    Implications of Broadwell packaging?Ricardo B2012/12/04 05:27 PM
  Why not usable as pins?uh2012/12/05 11:42 AM
    Why not usable as pins?Ricardo B2012/12/05 01:53 PM
      Why not usable as pins?Salvatore De Dominicis2012/12/06 06:52 AM
  Implications of Broadwell packaging?Michael S2012/12/18 09:40 AM
    Implications of Broadwell packaging?EduardoS2012/12/18 09:46 AM
      Implications of Broadwell packaging?Jukka Larja2012/12/18 10:53 AM
        Implications of Broadwell packaging?Doug S2012/12/18 01:04 PM
          Missing the pointDavid Kanter2012/12/18 03:44 PM
            Missing the pointrwessel2012/12/18 04:23 PM
            Missing the pointDoug S2012/12/18 04:48 PM
            On package memory.Jouni Osmala2012/12/18 11:20 PM
            Missing the pointRohit2012/12/19 12:17 PM
              Missing the pointDavid Kanter2012/12/19 03:15 PM
          Implications of Broadwell packaging?Michael S2012/12/19 03:34 AM
            Benefits of on package memoryPaul A. Clayton2012/12/19 10:06 AM
              Benefits of on package memoryMichael S2012/12/19 10:46 AM
                Maturing NUMA managementPaul A. Clayton2012/12/19 01:35 PM
                  Maturing NUMA managementrwessel2012/12/19 02:49 PM
                    Distributed vs. hierarchical NUMAPaul A. Clayton2012/12/19 07:30 PM
                      Distributed vs. hierarchical NUMArwessel2012/12/19 11:11 PM
                        Distributed vs. hierarchical NUMAMichael S2012/12/20 03:22 AM
              Benefits of on package memoryJacob Marley2012/12/28 03:28 AM
                Cache vs. scratchpad tradeoffsPaul A. Clayton2012/12/28 11:57 AM
          Implications of Broadwell packaging?Ricardo B2012/12/19 04:32 AM
            Implications of Broadwell packaging?Doug S2012/12/19 10:50 AM
              Implications of Broadwell packaging?rwessel2012/12/19 11:40 AM
                Bigger implies more powerful?Paul A. Clayton2012/12/19 12:50 PM
                  Bigger implies more powerful?rwessel2012/12/19 02:47 PM
                    SFF for businessPaul A. Clayton2012/12/19 08:14 PM
                      SFF for businessrwessel2012/12/19 11:47 PM
                  Bigger implies more powerful?Jouni Osmala2012/12/19 03:15 PM
                    Bigger implies more powerful?Doug S2012/12/19 04:19 PM
                      Bigger implies more powerful?rwessel2012/12/20 12:02 AM
          Implications of Broadwell packaging?Jukka Larja2012/12/19 11:49 AM
            Implications of Broadwell packaging?Ricardo B2012/12/19 06:35 PM
              Implications of Broadwell packaging?rwessel2012/12/20 12:43 AM
              Implications of Broadwell packaging?Doug S2012/12/20 12:43 AM
                Implications of Broadwell packaging?Michael S2012/12/20 03:46 AM
                  Implications of Broadwell packaging?Doug S2012/12/20 08:37 PM
                    Implications of Broadwell packaging?Jukka Larja2012/12/21 02:56 AM
                    Implications of Broadwell packaging?mpx2012/12/22 04:31 AM
                      Implications of Broadwell packaging?Doug S2012/12/22 02:34 PM
                Implications of Broadwell packaging?Ungo2012/12/20 07:13 PM
                Implications of Broadwell packaging?Linus Torvalds2012/12/20 07:46 PM
                  Implications of Broadwell packaging?Doug S2012/12/20 09:33 PM
                    Implications of Broadwell packaging?bakaneko2012/12/21 06:33 AM
                  Thunderbolt powerRicardo B2012/12/21 07:46 AM
                    Thunderbolt powerLinus Torvalds2012/12/21 08:42 AM
                      Thunderbolt powerRicardo B2012/12/21 09:57 AM
                        Thunderbolt powerDoug S2012/12/21 03:53 PM
                          Thunderbolt powersoupnoforyou2012/12/21 04:54 PM
                          Thunderbolt powerbakaneko2012/12/21 05:20 PM
                            Thunderbolt powerrwessel2012/12/22 02:36 AM
                              Thunderbolt powerbakaneko2012/12/22 08:00 AM
                          Thunderbolt powerRicardo B2012/12/22 06:43 AM
                        Thunderbolt powerLinus Torvalds2012/12/21 06:04 PM
                          Thunderbolt powerRicardo B2012/12/22 07:13 AM
                            Thunderbolt powerLinus Torvalds2012/12/22 10:54 AM
                              Thunderbolt powerRicardo B2012/12/22 03:56 PM
                    Thunderbolt powerRohit2012/12/21 10:26 AM
                  Implications of Broadwell packaging?gallier22012/12/21 08:01 AM
                  Implications of Broadwell packaging?Groo2012/12/22 12:13 PM
                  Thunderbolt powerC. Ladisch2013/01/08 01:54 AM
            Implications of Broadwell packaging?Anon2012/12/20 03:10 PM
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