Article Online: Microservers must Specialize to Survive

Article: Microservers must Specialize to Survive
By: rwessel (robertwessel.delete@this.yahoo.com), January 30, 2013 2:54 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Richard Cownie (tich.delete@this.pobox.com) on January 30, 2013 2:39 pm wrote:
> rwessel (robertwessel.delete@this.yahoo.com) on January 29, 2013 10:15 pm wrote:
> > Right, but unless you think that the microserver vendors are likely to be going head to
> > head with Intel 2S and larger systems, the relevant datum is the $252 ASP for Xeon UPs.
>
> It's not exactly "head-to-head" in the sense that 1 ARM-based server node would
> exactly match the capability of 1 2S-Xeon node. The interesting use case is where
> you have hundreds or thousands of servers. With Intel's current products, you have
> a bunch of "system cost" like chipset, power supply, board, and it might well
> turn out that the cheapest way to pack compute power into X square feet of datacenter
> is to have 2 cpu sockets in each system (even if those cpu's are relatively expensive,
> you get better amortization of the board/PSU/network costs). Isn't that what Google's
> systems look like ?
>
> It's quite possible that the competing ARM-based solution would look very different,
> with different numbers of cores, different numbers of sockets, different numbers of
> nodes, possibly much less per-board cost.
>
> Obviously this only works if you have a cheap scalable way of running many systems
> with few sysadmins. But that's just what cloud software does. So the constraints
> are very different than they were 5 years ago, or even 3 years ago.


I meant head-to-head only in the sense that if you had a flock of ARM chickens a big Xeon UP ox sliced into virtual chickens is an obvious alternative. A Xeon MP largely is *not*. Technically, sure it would work, but it costs more, and you're ignoring the one thing (the big coherent memory) that makes the Xeon MP more attractive (for some workloads) than a cluster of Xeon UPs. So the ASP comparison shouldn't include the multi-socket Xeons.

There are several levels of things needing to be managed in these scenarios. The hardware, the base OSs, the virtualization, the OS in each virtual slice, any sharing within that image, and of course the application(s) running there.

Obviously a couple of those layers drop out if you're running on real hardware (without virtualization), but I don't think that's really the use case for most of these. If nothing else, virtualization significantly eases hardware management – you lose a lot of hardware dependencies, so images can migrate easily between different boxes with slightly different hardware, and images can be trivially migrated box-to-box, as load and maintenance issue dictate. In some cases it can even be done live.

But there's considerable automation now for all of those layers, but bigger physical boxes, especially if they don't cost more than the flock of smaller boxes, adds significant flexibility to workload planning and management. Obviously some of that is less mature on ARM at this point, especially virtualization, but that's certainly going to be fixed in the next few years.

But it really does come down to the costs for each platform, at least for those workloads that don't mind running on smaller images, there's not that much preventing a migration between the ISAs in many cases. I think that was the main point of David’s article – there’s not really all that much room under the basic Xeon-UP pizza box to make a flock of ARMs cost effective.
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Article Online: Microservers must Specialize to SurviveDavid Kanter2013/01/28 12:47 PM
  Article Online: Microservers must Specialize to SurviveRichard Cownie2013/01/29 03:42 AM
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      Article Online: Microservers must Specialize to SurviveRichard Cownie2013/01/29 06:01 AM
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              Article Online: Microservers must Specialize to SurviveMichael S2013/01/30 01:06 AM
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                              Article Online: Microservers must Specialize to Surviveanon2013/01/31 05:47 PM
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                                                                ASP estimatesRichard Cownie2013/02/02 05:07 PM
                                                                  ASP estimatesRicardo B2013/02/02 05:48 PM
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                                                                          ASP estimates...cache?Per Hesselgren2013/02/03 11:08 AM
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                                                                        ASP estimatesRichard Cownie2013/02/03 05:10 AM
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                                                                        ARM OEMs get free silicon?Richard Cownie2013/02/04 11:17 AM
                                                                          ARM OEMs get free silicon?geeker2013/02/06 11:16 AM
                                                                            ARM OEMs get free silicon?Gabriele Svelto2013/02/07 03:18 AM
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                                                                            ARM OEMs get free silicon?Richard Cownie2013/02/07 05:48 AM
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            Article Online: Microservers must Specialize to Surviverwessel2013/01/30 02:54 PM
          Or compare to *desktop* ASPsMark Roulo2013/01/30 02:51 PM
            Or compare to *desktop* ASPsrwessel2013/01/30 03:07 PM
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            Or compare to *desktop* ASPsDoug S2013/01/30 08:50 PM
              Or compare to *desktop* ASPsrwessel2013/01/30 10:04 PM
              when thoughput matters, ultra-cheap Intel CPUs are not attractiveMichael S2013/01/31 01:59 AM
                when thoughput matters, ultra-cheap Intel CPUs are not attractiveDoug S2013/01/31 11:00 AM
                  when thoughput matters, ultra-cheap Intel CPUs are not attractiveMichael S2013/01/31 01:04 PM
                    Price/perf curve on intel.Jouni Osmala2013/01/31 10:28 PM
                    when thoughput matters, ultra-cheap Intel CPUs are not attractiveDoug S2013/02/01 03:45 PM
                      when thoughput matters, ultra-cheap Intel CPUs are not attractiverwessel2013/02/02 12:54 AM
              Or compare to *desktop* ASPsGabriele Svelto2013/01/31 02:33 AM
    Article Online: Microservers must Specialize to SurviveDoug S2013/01/29 09:36 AM
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                x86_64someone2013/02/05 08:22 AM
                  x86_64Richard Cownie2013/02/05 08:44 AM
              "Just recompile"Mark Roulo2013/02/05 07:40 AM
                "Just recompile"Michael S2013/02/05 09:35 AM
                  "Just recompile"Mark Roulo2013/02/05 09:55 AM
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        x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturePatrick Chase2013/02/02 08:58 AM
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                x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturePatrick Chase2013/02/03 02:39 PM
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                          U shape curve on performance...none2013/02/04 02:03 AM
                            U shape curve on performance...Michael S2013/02/04 06:55 AM
                              U shape curve on performance...Patrick Chase2013/02/04 09:14 AM
                                U shape curve on performance...Michael S2013/02/04 01:43 PM
                                  U shape curve on performance...Patrick Chase2013/02/04 03:06 PM
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                          U shape curve on performance...Michael S2013/02/04 06:48 AM
                          U shape curve on performance...Patrick Chase2013/02/04 09:05 AM
                            It only works if ... ??Paul A. Clayton2013/02/04 11:20 AM
                              It only works if ... ??Patrick Chase2013/02/04 11:48 AM
                                It only works if ... ??Patrick Chase2013/02/04 12:02 PM
                                It only works if ... ??Patrick Chase2013/02/04 12:08 PM
                                  It only works if ... ??Patrick Chase2013/02/04 12:15 PM
                                  It only works if ... ??anon2013/02/04 04:45 PM
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              spec95 vs Spec2kbakaneko2013/02/04 03:48 AM
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                  Similar to Thumb If-Then instructionEtienne2013/02/05 06:22 AM
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                  ARMv8 cleanlinessEtienne2013/02/05 05:57 AM
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                      ARMv8 cleanlinessEtienne2013/02/05 07:55 AM
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                                                ARMv8 cleanlinessDavid Hess2013/02/26 10:01 PM
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                                                    ARMv8 cleanlinessDavid Hess2013/03/01 12:58 PM
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                                                        What is wrong with ARM?David Hess2013/03/01 06:49 PM
                                                          What is wrong with ARM?Michael S2013/03/02 04:11 PM
                                                            What is wrong with ARM?David Hess2013/03/03 10:32 PM
                                                              What is wrong with ARM?Michael S2013/03/04 01:05 AM
                                                        What is wrong with ARM?David Hess2013/03/07 05:30 PM
                                                          Thank you very much!Paul A. Clayton2013/03/07 06:59 PM
                                                            Thank you very much!David Hess2013/03/07 10:22 PM
                                                              Thank you very much!gallier22013/03/08 12:43 AM
                                                                Thank you very much!David Hess2013/03/08 10:24 AM
                                                                  Thank you very much!Ungo2013/03/08 03:37 PM
                                                                    Thank you very much!David Hess2013/03/08 07:47 PM
                                                            Thank you very much!Ricardo B2013/03/08 04:07 AM
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                                                                ARM lackings a historical accident?Ricardo B2013/03/08 02:33 PM
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                                                    ParityAndi Kleen2013/03/03 12:47 PM
                                                      ParityLinus Torvalds2013/03/03 02:06 PM
                                                        ParityAndi Kleen2013/03/03 06:15 PM
                                            Except the borrow bitMatthew D2013/02/25 11:07 PM
                                              Except the borrow bitrwessel2013/02/25 11:42 PM
                                              Except the borrow bitLinus Torvalds2013/02/26 10:13 AM
                                                are ZSCO flags really fundamental?Michael S2013/02/27 03:24 PM
                                                  are ZSCO flags really fundamental?Linus Torvalds2013/02/27 04:41 PM
                                                    are ZSCO flags really fundamental?Michael S2013/02/28 12:39 AM
                                                    are ZSCO flags really fundamental?2013/03/01 09:23 AM
                                                  are ZSCO flags really fundamental?EduardoS2013/02/27 10:07 PM
                                                    are ZSCO flags really fundamental?Michael S2013/02/28 03:58 AM
                                                  are ZSCO flags really fundamental?rwessel2013/02/27 11:29 PM
                                                    are ZSCO flags really fundamental?rwessel2013/02/27 11:32 PM
                                                    Bit numbering on big endian machinesKonrad Schwarz2013/02/28 12:49 AM
                                                      Bit numbering on big endian machinesrwessel2013/02/28 01:32 AM
                                          ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/25 04:54 AM
                                            ARMv8 cleanlinessEduardoS2013/02/25 05:24 AM
                                              ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/25 06:36 AM
                                                ARMv8 cleanlinessEduardoS2013/02/25 12:06 PM
                                                  ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/25 04:24 PM
                                                    ARMv8 cleanlinessEduardoS2013/02/25 04:55 PM
                                                    Utility of data loss exceptionsPaul A. Clayton2013/02/25 07:18 PM
                                                      Utility of data loss exceptionsrwessel2013/02/26 12:00 AM
                                                        Excessively expensive mode changingPaul A. Clayton2013/02/26 05:15 AM
                                                      Utility of data loss exceptionsEduardoS2013/02/26 01:55 AM
                                                        Utility of data loss exceptionsTREZA2013/02/26 03:53 AM
                                                          Utility of data loss exceptionsEduardoS2013/02/26 04:37 AM
                                                      Utility of data loss exceptionsEtienne2013/02/26 05:01 AM
                                            1b vs. 4b not a huge difference?Paul A. Clayton2013/02/25 08:57 AM
                                  Possible benefit of multi-bit CCPaul A. Clayton2013/02/23 07:09 AM
                                ARMv8 cleanlinessrwessel2013/02/17 11:01 PM
                                  ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/18 04:33 PM
                                    ARMv8 cleanlinessEduardoS2013/02/18 07:18 PM
                                      ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/25 05:19 AM
                      ARMv8 cleanlinessTREZA2013/02/15 03:21 AM
                      ARMv8 cleanliness2013/02/17 09:49 AM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessLinus Torvalds2013/02/17 10:54 AM
                          ARMv8 cleanlinessLinus Torvalds2013/02/17 10:58 AM
                          ARMv8 cleanlinessnone2013/02/17 03:36 PM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessTREZA2013/02/17 10:59 AM
                          ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/17 11:30 AM
                            and-compare and or-comparePaul A. Clayton2013/02/17 04:28 PM
                              early branch resolutionanon2013/02/18 01:05 AM
                                My ignorance about compilers is vasterPaul A. Clayton2013/02/18 12:30 PM
                                early branch resolutionanon2013/02/18 04:12 PM
                              early branch resolution?EBFE2013/02/19 12:03 AM
                                Early resolution: some but limited potentialPaul A. Clayton2013/02/19 04:52 PM
                                  Early resolution: some but limited potentialhobold2013/02/20 01:02 PM
                                    PPC750 was an inspirationPaul A. Clayton2013/02/23 07:09 AM
                          ARMv8 cleanlinessTREZA2013/02/17 12:53 PM
                            ARMv8 cleanlinessExophase2013/02/17 03:49 PM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/17 11:07 AM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessbakaneko2013/02/17 11:43 AM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessJouni Osmala2013/02/17 12:10 PM
                          -1 comparison true seems betterPaul A. Clayton2013/02/17 05:07 PM
                  ARMv8 cleanlinessEtienne2013/07/17 01:58 AM
      ARM server benchmark- why Apache?Per Hesselgren2013/02/04 11:13 PM
        ARM server benchmark- why Apache?anon2013/02/04 11:38 PM
          ARM server benchmark- why Apache?Per Hesselgren2013/02/05 12:25 AM
            ARM server benchmark- why Apache?Michael S2013/02/05 01:13 AM
          ARM server benchmark- why Apache?Michael S2013/02/05 12:51 AM
          I think that was debunked alreadyDavid Kanter2013/02/05 06:36 PM
        ARM server benchmark- why Apache?bakaneko2013/02/06 01:37 AM
          ARM server benchmark- why Apache?Michael S2013/02/06 02:43 AM
            Marketing to PHBs?Paul A. Clayton2013/02/06 05:40 AM
            ARM server benchmark- why Apache?bakaneko2013/02/06 06:08 AM
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