Article Online: Microservers must Specialize to Survive

Article: Microservers must Specialize to Survive
By: Michael S (already5chosen.delete@this.yahoo.com), February 1, 2013 7:07 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Richard Cownie (tich.delete@this.pobox.com) on February 1, 2013 6:35 am wrote:
> anon (anon.delete@this.anon.com) on February 1, 2013 5:56 am wrote:
> > They have been trying with x86, not ARM yet.
>
> Which indicates that they don't have sufficient advantage from their
> non-cpu design expertise, plus their manufacturing, to make a dent
> in the market. Why would substituting ARM for x86 fix that ?
>

No need to fight an uphill battle against software installed base.

> > You seem to be saying that other companies could make good profits, but Intel >inherently cannot.
>
> I think it's a big challenge to make good profits in the phone/tablet SoC
> market against the current, very competent, winners. Even for Intel.
> And apart from manufacturing, I don't think Intel's expertise is particularly
> well matched to that market. They haven't done much with SoC's;

They did SOCs well before the name SOCs became popular. In particular, 8096/196/296 family. Even early on, 80186 was sorta SOC.
And, of course, SandyB/IvyB are SOCs.

> they haven't done much with handheld devices;

They did XScale.

> they're not great at GPUs;

They are no worse than market leaders that all use either PowerVR or Mali. In fact, they are somewhat better, since apart from using PowerVR they have in house GPU, while less power efficient, but higher-performing.

> they seem to
> operate on long-term product cycles which may not match the fast-moving
> mobile market (the same problem they had with GPUs).
> >

I thing, their product cycles cadence is the same as Apple and Samsung.

> > >
> > > > If x86 does not work out, they could design their own ARM cores, they could fab cortex cores like Samsung,
> > >
> > > There's more to a good phone/tablet SoC than the ARM cores.
> >
> > Yep, and Intel seems to be more than capable of producing such devices on a technical level today.
>
> I think they've demonstrated the ability to make something functional.
> They haven't demonstrated the ability to make something clearly superior.
> And "clearly superior", on some dimension, is what you need to grab
> market share from strong incumbents.
>
> > Neither is *anything* in these ARM markets, for *any* player,
> > a way to get the kind of huge profits that x86 generates.
>
> Correction: that x86 used to generate. Last quarter Qualcomm alone made
> $1.9B profit; Intel made $2.5B. Not a big gap. And Intel's desktop/laptop
> business shrank a lot YoY (a gap which was partly made up by strong growth
> on the server side).
>

I think of Qualcomm as first and foremost RF and basedand company with application processors being the distant third. Am I wrong about it?
And there were reports that on application processors front Qualcomm had serious troubles with foundry partners.

> > However it's growing of course, and every bit they take can add to their bottom line,
> > and take away from TSMC, or Samsung, or nvidia, etc. So the assertion that the ARM ecosystem
> > will grow to threaten Intel with no recourse for Intel to take is just flawed.
>
> Well, I started out on this thread with the suggestion that *either* ARM-based
> products would take server share, *or* Intel would have to cut server-product
> margins to fight them off. And either way would be a big change in the
> server business (and good for consumers). So I've accepted all along that Intel
> has "recourse to take" - it's just that the form of that "recourse" is a major
> restructuring into a business with lower margins in a more competitive market.
>
>
>

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TopicPosted ByDate
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                  x86_64Richard Cownie2013/02/05 09:44 AM
              "Just recompile"Mark Roulo2013/02/05 08:40 AM
                "Just recompile"Michael S2013/02/05 10:35 AM
                  "Just recompile"Mark Roulo2013/02/05 10:55 AM
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    x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitectureanon2013/02/02 05:04 AM
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        x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturePatrick Chase2013/02/02 09:58 AM
        x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturePatrick Chase2013/02/02 10:26 AM
        x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitectureanon2013/02/02 05:49 PM
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            x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitectureanon2013/02/03 02:58 PM
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                x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturePatrick Chase2013/02/03 03:39 PM
                x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitectureanon2013/02/03 06:08 PM
                  x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturePatrick Chase2013/02/03 08:05 PM
                    x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitectureanon2013/02/03 09:52 PM
                      x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitectureDavid Kanter2013/02/03 11:23 PM
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                          U shape curve on performance...none2013/02/04 03:03 AM
                            U shape curve on performance...Michael S2013/02/04 07:55 AM
                              U shape curve on performance...Patrick Chase2013/02/04 10:14 AM
                                U shape curve on performance...Michael S2013/02/04 02:43 PM
                                  U shape curve on performance...Patrick Chase2013/02/04 04:06 PM
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                          U shape curve on performance...Michael S2013/02/04 07:48 AM
                          U shape curve on performance...Patrick Chase2013/02/04 10:05 AM
                            It only works if ... ??Paul A. Clayton2013/02/04 12:20 PM
                              It only works if ... ??Patrick Chase2013/02/04 12:48 PM
                                It only works if ... ??Patrick Chase2013/02/04 01:02 PM
                                It only works if ... ??Patrick Chase2013/02/04 01:08 PM
                                  It only works if ... ??Patrick Chase2013/02/04 01:15 PM
                                  It only works if ... ??anon2013/02/04 05:45 PM
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              spec95 vs Spec2kbakaneko2013/02/04 04:48 AM
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                  ARMv8 cleanlinessEtienne2013/02/05 06:57 AM
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                      ARMv8 cleanlinessEtienne2013/02/05 08:55 AM
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                        ARMv8 cleanlinessEduardoS2013/02/15 10:45 AM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessMax2013/02/15 01:24 PM
                          ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/15 05:46 PM
                            ARMv8 cleanlinessLinus Torvalds2013/02/15 06:34 PM
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                                      ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/19 02:20 PM
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                                      ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/19 02:10 PM
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                                                ARMv8 cleanlinessDavid Hess2013/02/26 11:01 PM
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                                                    ARMv8 cleanlinessDavid Hess2013/03/01 01:58 PM
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                                                        What is wrong with ARM?David Hess2013/03/01 07:49 PM
                                                          What is wrong with ARM?Michael S2013/03/02 05:11 PM
                                                            What is wrong with ARM?David Hess2013/03/03 11:32 PM
                                                              What is wrong with ARM?Michael S2013/03/04 02:05 AM
                                                        What is wrong with ARM?David Hess2013/03/07 06:30 PM
                                                          Thank you very much!Paul A. Clayton2013/03/07 07:59 PM
                                                            Thank you very much!David Hess2013/03/07 11:22 PM
                                                              Thank you very much!gallier22013/03/08 01:43 AM
                                                                Thank you very much!David Hess2013/03/08 11:24 AM
                                                                  Thank you very much!Ungo2013/03/08 04:37 PM
                                                                    Thank you very much!David Hess2013/03/08 08:47 PM
                                                            Thank you very much!Ricardo B2013/03/08 05:07 AM
                                                              ARM lackings a historical accident?Paul A. Clayton2013/03/08 08:54 AM
                                                                ARM lackings a historical accident?Ricardo B2013/03/08 03:33 PM
                                                          What is wrong with ARM?Michael S2013/03/08 06:25 AM
                                                            What is wrong with ARM?David Hess2013/03/08 12:37 PM
                                                            What is wrong with ARM?dmsc2013/03/12 03:47 PM
                                                          What is wrong with ARM?dmsc2013/03/12 03:43 PM
                                                      ARMv8 cleanlinessMichael S2013/03/02 05:06 PM
                                                    ParityAndi Kleen2013/03/03 01:47 PM
                                                      ParityLinus Torvalds2013/03/03 03:06 PM
                                                        ParityAndi Kleen2013/03/03 07:15 PM
                                            Except the borrow bitMatthew D2013/02/26 12:07 AM
                                              Except the borrow bitrwessel2013/02/26 12:42 AM
                                              Except the borrow bitLinus Torvalds2013/02/26 11:13 AM
                                                are ZSCO flags really fundamental?Michael S2013/02/27 04:24 PM
                                                  are ZSCO flags really fundamental?Linus Torvalds2013/02/27 05:41 PM
                                                    are ZSCO flags really fundamental?Michael S2013/02/28 01:39 AM
                                                    are ZSCO flags really fundamental?2013/03/01 10:23 AM
                                                  are ZSCO flags really fundamental?EduardoS2013/02/27 11:07 PM
                                                    are ZSCO flags really fundamental?Michael S2013/02/28 04:58 AM
                                                  are ZSCO flags really fundamental?rwessel2013/02/28 12:29 AM
                                                    are ZSCO flags really fundamental?rwessel2013/02/28 12:32 AM
                                                    Bit numbering on big endian machinesKonrad Schwarz2013/02/28 01:49 AM
                                                      Bit numbering on big endian machinesrwessel2013/02/28 02:32 AM
                                          ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/25 05:54 AM
                                            ARMv8 cleanlinessEduardoS2013/02/25 06:24 AM
                                              ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/25 07:36 AM
                                                ARMv8 cleanlinessEduardoS2013/02/25 01:06 PM
                                                  ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/25 05:24 PM
                                                    ARMv8 cleanlinessEduardoS2013/02/25 05:55 PM
                                                    Utility of data loss exceptionsPaul A. Clayton2013/02/25 08:18 PM
                                                      Utility of data loss exceptionsrwessel2013/02/26 01:00 AM
                                                        Excessively expensive mode changingPaul A. Clayton2013/02/26 06:15 AM
                                                      Utility of data loss exceptionsEduardoS2013/02/26 02:55 AM
                                                        Utility of data loss exceptionsTREZA2013/02/26 04:53 AM
                                                          Utility of data loss exceptionsEduardoS2013/02/26 05:37 AM
                                                      Utility of data loss exceptionsEtienne2013/02/26 06:01 AM
                                            1b vs. 4b not a huge difference?Paul A. Clayton2013/02/25 09:57 AM
                                  Possible benefit of multi-bit CCPaul A. Clayton2013/02/23 08:09 AM
                                ARMv8 cleanlinessrwessel2013/02/18 12:01 AM
                                  ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/18 05:33 PM
                                    ARMv8 cleanlinessEduardoS2013/02/18 08:18 PM
                                      ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/25 06:19 AM
                      ARMv8 cleanlinessTREZA2013/02/15 04:21 AM
                      ARMv8 cleanliness2013/02/17 10:49 AM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessLinus Torvalds2013/02/17 11:54 AM
                          ARMv8 cleanlinessLinus Torvalds2013/02/17 11:58 AM
                          ARMv8 cleanlinessnone2013/02/17 04:36 PM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessTREZA2013/02/17 11:59 AM
                          ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/17 12:30 PM
                            and-compare and or-comparePaul A. Clayton2013/02/17 05:28 PM
                              early branch resolutionanon2013/02/18 02:05 AM
                                My ignorance about compilers is vasterPaul A. Clayton2013/02/18 01:30 PM
                                early branch resolutionanon2013/02/18 05:12 PM
                              early branch resolution?EBFE2013/02/19 01:03 AM
                                Early resolution: some but limited potentialPaul A. Clayton2013/02/19 05:52 PM
                                  Early resolution: some but limited potentialhobold2013/02/20 02:02 PM
                                    PPC750 was an inspirationPaul A. Clayton2013/02/23 08:09 AM
                          ARMv8 cleanlinessTREZA2013/02/17 01:53 PM
                            ARMv8 cleanlinessExophase2013/02/17 04:49 PM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/17 12:07 PM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessbakaneko2013/02/17 12:43 PM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessJouni Osmala2013/02/17 01:10 PM
                          -1 comparison true seems betterPaul A. Clayton2013/02/17 06:07 PM
                  ARMv8 cleanlinessEtienne2013/07/17 02:58 AM
      ARM server benchmark- why Apache?Per Hesselgren2013/02/05 12:13 AM
        ARM server benchmark- why Apache?anon2013/02/05 12:38 AM
          ARM server benchmark- why Apache?Per Hesselgren2013/02/05 01:25 AM
            ARM server benchmark- why Apache?Michael S2013/02/05 02:13 AM
          ARM server benchmark- why Apache?Michael S2013/02/05 01:51 AM
          I think that was debunked alreadyDavid Kanter2013/02/05 07:36 PM
        ARM server benchmark- why Apache?bakaneko2013/02/06 02:37 AM
          ARM server benchmark- why Apache?Michael S2013/02/06 03:43 AM
            Marketing to PHBs?Paul A. Clayton2013/02/06 06:40 AM
            ARM server benchmark- why Apache?bakaneko2013/02/06 07:08 AM
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