U shape curve on performance...

Article: Microservers must Specialize to Survive
By: Michael S (already5chosen.delete@this.yahoo.com), February 4, 2013 6:48 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Jouni Osmala (josmala.delete@this.cc.hut.fi) on February 4, 2013 1:07 am wrote:
> > Patrick's point, which I agree with, is that the x86 penalty really depends a lot on
> > context. I think that for a scalar core, it's probably more than 15%. But for something
> > like the P3, it's a lot less. That's doubly true once you start talking about caches
> > in the range of 1MB/core. At that point, the x86 penalty is really quite small.
> >
> > And it's a fair point, but one I didn't want to dive into
> > because of the inherent complexity. But it's true,
> > the x86 overhead depends on the performance of the core; the higher performance the lower the overhead.
>
> Unfortunately we are not having alphas around anymore to show that in practice.
> But key issue is this, once we are in high enough performance situation, we start wondering
> what we could do to improve it even further. The branch misprediction penalty is one of key things to limit
> that. And x86 increases the pipeline length.

At the low-performance part of the curve x86 tax could be easily in range of 30 to 100%.
On the other hand, 2-3 clock increase in branch mispredict penalty (don't forget, 2-3 clocks out 12-20 clocks) accounts, may be, for 1% decrease in performance, but likely even less. Not quite a u-turn.

> Then the increased register pressure's effect on how many memory
> subsystem operations you need at given performance level. Of course intel has spend hardware there to fix
> performance problems, hardware that consumes power and that if applied to riscier system could instead of
> filling buffers with superfluous memory operations could spend them with operations inherent in problem.

There certainly exist problems which run-time is dominated by L1D hit throughput. But they are not very common, to say the least. And for those, I'd think, the relative percentage of memory accesses caused by register starvation is lower than average.
I.e. again, we are talking about single-digit impact on performance, even in the worst case.

> Then there is just penalty of having far wider micro-ops stored in OoO structures compared to RISCier designs.

I am not sure it is necessary, or even that it is how things done in the new generation of PRF-based x86 cores. There are indications (L1D load latency) that SandyB stores only 11 or 12 immediate bits in reservation stations, that's less than your typical RISC. The rest of the fields should be similar to RISC.

> And renaming of condition codes still require hardware that needs to be active.

It performs useful work by taking part of the pressure off the GPR-related parts of design.
Anyway, pure GPR-only RISCs no more exist in high performance range. All 5 existing high-performance general-purpose ISAs (IPF/Power/SPARC/x86/zArch), as well as a single newcomer (Arm), hold comparison results either as condition codes or in special-purpose register file.


> The problem isn't how much die area they spend anymore, its where the extra die area adds
> latency or consumes power, and that's where x86 penalty really comes in these days.

Except, in practice the difference is lost in noise of other factors.
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Article Online: Microservers must Specialize to SurviveDavid Kanter2013/01/28 12:47 PM
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                    Price/perf curve on intel.Jouni Osmala2013/01/31 10:28 PM
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                      when thoughput matters, ultra-cheap Intel CPUs are not attractiverwessel2013/02/02 12:54 AM
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              "Just recompile"Mark Roulo2013/02/05 07:40 AM
                "Just recompile"Michael S2013/02/05 09:35 AM
                  "Just recompile"Mark Roulo2013/02/05 09:55 AM
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        x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturePatrick Chase2013/02/02 08:58 AM
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            x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitectureanon2013/02/03 01:58 PM
              x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturePatrick Chase2013/02/03 02:35 PM
                x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturePatrick Chase2013/02/03 02:39 PM
                x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitectureanon2013/02/03 05:08 PM
                  x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturePatrick Chase2013/02/03 07:05 PM
                    x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitectureanon2013/02/03 08:52 PM
                      x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitectureDavid Kanter2013/02/03 10:23 PM
                        U shape curve on performance...Jouni Osmala2013/02/04 12:07 AM
                          U shape curve on performance...none2013/02/04 02:03 AM
                            U shape curve on performance...Michael S2013/02/04 06:55 AM
                              U shape curve on performance...Patrick Chase2013/02/04 09:14 AM
                                U shape curve on performance...Michael S2013/02/04 01:43 PM
                                  U shape curve on performance...Patrick Chase2013/02/04 03:06 PM
                            Microcode can be usefulPaul A. Clayton2013/02/04 07:08 AM
                          U shape curve on performance...Michael S2013/02/04 06:48 AM
                          U shape curve on performance...Patrick Chase2013/02/04 09:05 AM
                            It only works if ... ??Paul A. Clayton2013/02/04 11:20 AM
                              It only works if ... ??Patrick Chase2013/02/04 11:48 AM
                                It only works if ... ??Patrick Chase2013/02/04 12:02 PM
                                It only works if ... ??Patrick Chase2013/02/04 12:08 PM
                                  It only works if ... ??Patrick Chase2013/02/04 12:15 PM
                                  It only works if ... ??anon2013/02/04 04:45 PM
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                                                            Thank you very much!David Hess2013/03/07 10:22 PM
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                                                      ParityLinus Torvalds2013/03/03 02:06 PM
                                                        ParityAndi Kleen2013/03/03 06:15 PM
                                            Except the borrow bitMatthew D2013/02/25 11:07 PM
                                              Except the borrow bitrwessel2013/02/25 11:42 PM
                                              Except the borrow bitLinus Torvalds2013/02/26 10:13 AM
                                                are ZSCO flags really fundamental?Michael S2013/02/27 03:24 PM
                                                  are ZSCO flags really fundamental?Linus Torvalds2013/02/27 04:41 PM
                                                    are ZSCO flags really fundamental?Michael S2013/02/28 12:39 AM
                                                    are ZSCO flags really fundamental?2013/03/01 09:23 AM
                                                  are ZSCO flags really fundamental?EduardoS2013/02/27 10:07 PM
                                                    are ZSCO flags really fundamental?Michael S2013/02/28 03:58 AM
                                                  are ZSCO flags really fundamental?rwessel2013/02/27 11:29 PM
                                                    are ZSCO flags really fundamental?rwessel2013/02/27 11:32 PM
                                                    Bit numbering on big endian machinesKonrad Schwarz2013/02/28 12:49 AM
                                                      Bit numbering on big endian machinesrwessel2013/02/28 01:32 AM
                                          ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/25 04:54 AM
                                            ARMv8 cleanlinessEduardoS2013/02/25 05:24 AM
                                              ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/25 06:36 AM
                                                ARMv8 cleanlinessEduardoS2013/02/25 12:06 PM
                                                  ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/25 04:24 PM
                                                    ARMv8 cleanlinessEduardoS2013/02/25 04:55 PM
                                                    Utility of data loss exceptionsPaul A. Clayton2013/02/25 07:18 PM
                                                      Utility of data loss exceptionsrwessel2013/02/26 12:00 AM
                                                        Excessively expensive mode changingPaul A. Clayton2013/02/26 05:15 AM
                                                      Utility of data loss exceptionsEduardoS2013/02/26 01:55 AM
                                                        Utility of data loss exceptionsTREZA2013/02/26 03:53 AM
                                                          Utility of data loss exceptionsEduardoS2013/02/26 04:37 AM
                                                      Utility of data loss exceptionsEtienne2013/02/26 05:01 AM
                                            1b vs. 4b not a huge difference?Paul A. Clayton2013/02/25 08:57 AM
                                  Possible benefit of multi-bit CCPaul A. Clayton2013/02/23 07:09 AM
                                ARMv8 cleanlinessrwessel2013/02/17 11:01 PM
                                  ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/18 04:33 PM
                                    ARMv8 cleanlinessEduardoS2013/02/18 07:18 PM
                                      ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/25 05:19 AM
                      ARMv8 cleanlinessTREZA2013/02/15 03:21 AM
                      ARMv8 cleanliness2013/02/17 09:49 AM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessLinus Torvalds2013/02/17 10:54 AM
                          ARMv8 cleanlinessLinus Torvalds2013/02/17 10:58 AM
                          ARMv8 cleanlinessnone2013/02/17 03:36 PM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessTREZA2013/02/17 10:59 AM
                          ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/17 11:30 AM
                            and-compare and or-comparePaul A. Clayton2013/02/17 04:28 PM
                              early branch resolutionanon2013/02/18 01:05 AM
                                My ignorance about compilers is vasterPaul A. Clayton2013/02/18 12:30 PM
                                early branch resolutionanon2013/02/18 04:12 PM
                              early branch resolution?EBFE2013/02/19 12:03 AM
                                Early resolution: some but limited potentialPaul A. Clayton2013/02/19 04:52 PM
                                  Early resolution: some but limited potentialhobold2013/02/20 01:02 PM
                                    PPC750 was an inspirationPaul A. Clayton2013/02/23 07:09 AM
                          ARMv8 cleanlinessTREZA2013/02/17 12:53 PM
                            ARMv8 cleanlinessExophase2013/02/17 03:49 PM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/17 11:07 AM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessbakaneko2013/02/17 11:43 AM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessJouni Osmala2013/02/17 12:10 PM
                          -1 comparison true seems betterPaul A. Clayton2013/02/17 05:07 PM
                  ARMv8 cleanlinessEtienne2013/07/17 01:58 AM
      ARM server benchmark- why Apache?Per Hesselgren2013/02/04 11:13 PM
        ARM server benchmark- why Apache?anon2013/02/04 11:38 PM
          ARM server benchmark- why Apache?Per Hesselgren2013/02/05 12:25 AM
            ARM server benchmark- why Apache?Michael S2013/02/05 01:13 AM
          ARM server benchmark- why Apache?Michael S2013/02/05 12:51 AM
          I think that was debunked alreadyDavid Kanter2013/02/05 06:36 PM
        ARM server benchmark- why Apache?bakaneko2013/02/06 01:37 AM
          ARM server benchmark- why Apache?Michael S2013/02/06 02:43 AM
            Marketing to PHBs?Paul A. Clayton2013/02/06 05:40 AM
            ARM server benchmark- why Apache?bakaneko2013/02/06 06:08 AM
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