U shape curve on performance...

Article: Microservers must Specialize to Survive
By: Patrick Chase (patrickjchase.delete@this.gmail.com), February 4, 2013 10:05 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Jouni Osmala (josmala.delete@this.cc.hut.fi) on February 4, 2013 1:07 am wrote:
> > Patrick's point, which I agree with, is that the x86 penalty really depends a lot on
> > context. I think that for a scalar core, it's probably more than 15%. But for something
> > like the P3, it's a lot less. That's doubly true once you start talking about caches
> > in the range of 1MB/core. At that point, the x86 penalty is really quite small.
> >
> > And it's a fair point, but one I didn't want to dive into
> > because of the inherent complexity. But it's true,
> > the x86 overhead depends on the performance of the core; the higher performance the lower the overhead.
>
> Unfortunately we are not having alphas around anymore to show that in practice.
> But key issue is this, once we are in high enough performance situation, we start wondering
> what we could do to improve it even further. The branch misprediction penalty is one of key things to limit
> that. And x86 increases the pipeline length. Then the increased register pressure's effect on how many memory
> subsystem operations you need at given performance level. Of course intel has spend hardware there to fix
> performance problems, hardware that consumes power and that if applied to riscier system could instead of
> filling buffers with superfluous memory operations could spend them with operations inherent in problem.
> Then there is just penalty of having far wider micro-ops stored in OoO structures compared to RISCier designs.
> And renaming of condition codes still require hardware that needs to be active.
> The problem isn't how much die area they spend anymore, its where the extra die area adds
> latency or consumes power, and that's where x86 penalty really comes in these days.

You can mitigate such decode power penalties by using a first-level Icache that contains uops instead of instructions. It only works if you're using physical register files (as opposed to reservation stations), though, because otherwise the uop size is unmanageable.

Interestingly enough, every Intel OoO CPU with PRFs has had some form of first-level uop cache (P4, Sandy Bridge, Ivy Bridge, Haswell). Do you think that perhaps they've figured this one out? :-)
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Article Online: Microservers must Specialize to SurviveDavid Kanter2013/01/28 01:47 PM
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            Or compare to *desktop* ASPsrwessel2013/01/30 04:07 PM
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                  when thoughput matters, ultra-cheap Intel CPUs are not attractiveMichael S2013/01/31 02:04 PM
                    Price/perf curve on intel.Jouni Osmala2013/01/31 11:28 PM
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                      when thoughput matters, ultra-cheap Intel CPUs are not attractiverwessel2013/02/02 01:54 AM
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  4x or 10x advantageS. Rao2013/01/30 05:35 PM
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      4x or 10x advantageS. Rao2013/02/03 10:32 PM
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                  x86_64Richard Cownie2013/02/05 09:44 AM
              "Just recompile"Mark Roulo2013/02/05 08:40 AM
                "Just recompile"Michael S2013/02/05 10:35 AM
                  "Just recompile"Mark Roulo2013/02/05 10:55 AM
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  x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturePatrick Chase2013/02/01 10:11 PM
    x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturempx2013/02/02 04:31 AM
      x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturePatrick Chase2013/02/02 09:27 AM
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    x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitectureanon2013/02/02 05:04 AM
      x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturePatrick Chase2013/02/02 09:42 AM
        x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturePatrick Chase2013/02/02 09:58 AM
        x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturePatrick Chase2013/02/02 10:26 AM
        x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitectureanon2013/02/02 05:49 PM
          x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturePer Hesselgren2013/02/03 01:44 AM
            x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitectureMichael S2013/02/03 02:59 AM
          x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturePatrick Chase2013/02/03 02:27 PM
            x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitectureanon2013/02/03 02:58 PM
              x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturePatrick Chase2013/02/03 03:35 PM
                x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturePatrick Chase2013/02/03 03:39 PM
                x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitectureanon2013/02/03 06:08 PM
                  x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturePatrick Chase2013/02/03 08:05 PM
                    x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitectureanon2013/02/03 09:52 PM
                      x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitectureDavid Kanter2013/02/03 11:23 PM
                        U shape curve on performance...Jouni Osmala2013/02/04 01:07 AM
                          U shape curve on performance...none2013/02/04 03:03 AM
                            U shape curve on performance...Michael S2013/02/04 07:55 AM
                              U shape curve on performance...Patrick Chase2013/02/04 10:14 AM
                                U shape curve on performance...Michael S2013/02/04 02:43 PM
                                  U shape curve on performance...Patrick Chase2013/02/04 04:06 PM
                            Microcode can be usefulPaul A. Clayton2013/02/04 08:08 AM
                          U shape curve on performance...Michael S2013/02/04 07:48 AM
                          U shape curve on performance...Patrick Chase2013/02/04 10:05 AM
                            It only works if ... ??Paul A. Clayton2013/02/04 12:20 PM
                              It only works if ... ??Patrick Chase2013/02/04 12:48 PM
                                It only works if ... ??Patrick Chase2013/02/04 01:02 PM
                                It only works if ... ??Patrick Chase2013/02/04 01:08 PM
                                  It only works if ... ??Patrick Chase2013/02/04 01:15 PM
                                  It only works if ... ??anon2013/02/04 05:45 PM
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                      x86 penalty depends on performance and microarchitecturerwessel2013/02/04 12:28 AM
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              spec95 vs Spec2kPer Hesselgren2013/02/04 04:42 AM
              spec95 vs Spec2kbakaneko2013/02/04 04:48 AM
                correct linksMichael S2013/02/04 06:10 AM
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                spec95 vs Spec2kMichael S2013/02/04 01:50 PM
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                  Cortex A9 ROBnone2013/02/04 04:58 PM
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                                                        What is wrong with ARM?David Hess2013/03/01 07:49 PM
                                                          What is wrong with ARM?Michael S2013/03/02 05:11 PM
                                                            What is wrong with ARM?David Hess2013/03/03 11:32 PM
                                                              What is wrong with ARM?Michael S2013/03/04 02:05 AM
                                                        What is wrong with ARM?David Hess2013/03/07 06:30 PM
                                                          Thank you very much!Paul A. Clayton2013/03/07 07:59 PM
                                                            Thank you very much!David Hess2013/03/07 11:22 PM
                                                              Thank you very much!gallier22013/03/08 01:43 AM
                                                                Thank you very much!David Hess2013/03/08 11:24 AM
                                                                  Thank you very much!Ungo2013/03/08 04:37 PM
                                                                    Thank you very much!David Hess2013/03/08 08:47 PM
                                                            Thank you very much!Ricardo B2013/03/08 05:07 AM
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                                                                ARM lackings a historical accident?Ricardo B2013/03/08 03:33 PM
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                                                    ParityAndi Kleen2013/03/03 01:47 PM
                                                      ParityLinus Torvalds2013/03/03 03:06 PM
                                                        ParityAndi Kleen2013/03/03 07:15 PM
                                            Except the borrow bitMatthew D2013/02/26 12:07 AM
                                              Except the borrow bitrwessel2013/02/26 12:42 AM
                                              Except the borrow bitLinus Torvalds2013/02/26 11:13 AM
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                                                    are ZSCO flags really fundamental?2013/03/01 10:23 AM
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                                                    are ZSCO flags really fundamental?Michael S2013/02/28 04:58 AM
                                                  are ZSCO flags really fundamental?rwessel2013/02/28 12:29 AM
                                                    are ZSCO flags really fundamental?rwessel2013/02/28 12:32 AM
                                                    Bit numbering on big endian machinesKonrad Schwarz2013/02/28 01:49 AM
                                                      Bit numbering on big endian machinesrwessel2013/02/28 02:32 AM
                                          ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/25 05:54 AM
                                            ARMv8 cleanlinessEduardoS2013/02/25 06:24 AM
                                              ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/25 07:36 AM
                                                ARMv8 cleanlinessEduardoS2013/02/25 01:06 PM
                                                  ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/25 05:24 PM
                                                    ARMv8 cleanlinessEduardoS2013/02/25 05:55 PM
                                                    Utility of data loss exceptionsPaul A. Clayton2013/02/25 08:18 PM
                                                      Utility of data loss exceptionsrwessel2013/02/26 01:00 AM
                                                        Excessively expensive mode changingPaul A. Clayton2013/02/26 06:15 AM
                                                      Utility of data loss exceptionsEduardoS2013/02/26 02:55 AM
                                                        Utility of data loss exceptionsTREZA2013/02/26 04:53 AM
                                                          Utility of data loss exceptionsEduardoS2013/02/26 05:37 AM
                                                      Utility of data loss exceptionsEtienne2013/02/26 06:01 AM
                                            1b vs. 4b not a huge difference?Paul A. Clayton2013/02/25 09:57 AM
                                  Possible benefit of multi-bit CCPaul A. Clayton2013/02/23 08:09 AM
                                ARMv8 cleanlinessrwessel2013/02/18 12:01 AM
                                  ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/18 05:33 PM
                                    ARMv8 cleanlinessEduardoS2013/02/18 08:18 PM
                                      ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/25 06:19 AM
                      ARMv8 cleanlinessTREZA2013/02/15 04:21 AM
                      ARMv8 cleanliness2013/02/17 10:49 AM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessLinus Torvalds2013/02/17 11:54 AM
                          ARMv8 cleanlinessLinus Torvalds2013/02/17 11:58 AM
                          ARMv8 cleanlinessnone2013/02/17 04:36 PM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessTREZA2013/02/17 11:59 AM
                          ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/17 12:30 PM
                            and-compare and or-comparePaul A. Clayton2013/02/17 05:28 PM
                              early branch resolutionanon2013/02/18 02:05 AM
                                My ignorance about compilers is vasterPaul A. Clayton2013/02/18 01:30 PM
                                early branch resolutionanon2013/02/18 05:12 PM
                              early branch resolution?EBFE2013/02/19 01:03 AM
                                Early resolution: some but limited potentialPaul A. Clayton2013/02/19 05:52 PM
                                  Early resolution: some but limited potentialhobold2013/02/20 02:02 PM
                                    PPC750 was an inspirationPaul A. Clayton2013/02/23 08:09 AM
                          ARMv8 cleanlinessTREZA2013/02/17 01:53 PM
                            ARMv8 cleanlinessExophase2013/02/17 04:49 PM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessWilco2013/02/17 12:07 PM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessbakaneko2013/02/17 12:43 PM
                        ARMv8 cleanlinessJouni Osmala2013/02/17 01:10 PM
                          -1 comparison true seems betterPaul A. Clayton2013/02/17 06:07 PM
                  ARMv8 cleanlinessEtienne2013/07/17 02:58 AM
      ARM server benchmark- why Apache?Per Hesselgren2013/02/05 12:13 AM
        ARM server benchmark- why Apache?anon2013/02/05 12:38 AM
          ARM server benchmark- why Apache?Per Hesselgren2013/02/05 01:25 AM
            ARM server benchmark- why Apache?Michael S2013/02/05 02:13 AM
          ARM server benchmark- why Apache?Michael S2013/02/05 01:51 AM
          I think that was debunked alreadyDavid Kanter2013/02/05 07:36 PM
        ARM server benchmark- why Apache?bakaneko2013/02/06 02:37 AM
          ARM server benchmark- why Apache?Michael S2013/02/06 03:43 AM
            Marketing to PHBs?Paul A. Clayton2013/02/06 06:40 AM
            ARM server benchmark- why Apache?bakaneko2013/02/06 07:08 AM
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