Clock frequency comparisons and process

Article: Silvermont, Intel's Low Power Architecture
By: David Kanter (dkanter.delete@this.realworldtech.com), May 18, 2013 8:50 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
> > That's not trickery, that's life. Intel has better process technology and is able to
> > hit higher clock speeds.
>
> It's trickery when you use a slow CPU on purpose when much faster CPUs are available.
> And in terms of frequency ARM has caught up dramatically in recent years. I expect ARM
> to pull ahead in frequency with Tegra 4i, 20nm A15's and the first 64-bit ARMs.

This is ridiculous. First, the 20nm process node at TSMC, GF and Samsung will be about the same performance as the 28nm node. Rephrasing: There is no reason to expect 20nm designs to be higher frequency than 28nm ones. I think this goes to prove my point quite eloquently, which is process matters.

Second, I'd like to emphasize that the DVFS used in most mobile devices is terribly primitive. Just look at the poor gains in frequency that you see in Tegra 3 when reducing the number of cores. But it's hard to tell what is a function of the CPU core design vs. the implementation; both can play a role.

Third, I don't think the A15 frequency is very good at low power, based on available data for current implementations. The power testing I've seen from Intel (which I trust, having seen the setup and instrumentation) shows that the 1.7GHz dual A15 from Samsung consumes about 1.5W/core when unconstrained by power management. Frankly, I think that 1W is about the limit for all cores when running in a smartphone...

To get from 1.5W/core down to 500mW/core will require a huge sacrifice in frequency. If we assume P = k*V2*F, that suggests that peak frequency would need to drop down to 1.1GHz.

1GHz is not an impressive frequency today, and is not 'catching up'. The Tegra 4i is a somewhat different story, as it's still based on the A9.

But the fundamental problem illustrated by the above example is that frequency isn't an abstract quantity. Frequency @ power is a meaningful metric and I'd like to see more clear disclosure from the ARM-based vendors in particular. E.g., yes Tegra 4i can run at 2.3GHz, but with how many cores and at what power consumption in the CPU block and at the platform level? How does it look with 2 cores? With all 4 cores? And how does power change as you sweep across different frequencies? How does the frequency change for different durations of workloads (e.g., how does it drop down over time)?

I think if you were to really look at the complete picture here and start asking those questions, you'd really see that Apple, Intel and Qualcomm get significant benefits from their custom CPU cores (and process technology for Intel).

David
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                      quad-core since Nov 2006mpx2013/05/13 01:34 AM
                        quad-core since Nov 2006RichardC2013/05/13 03:48 AM
                          quad-core since Nov 2006Jukka Larja2013/05/14 11:34 AM
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                                How about anti-virus, security, utility, and encryption cpu usage and delays?David Ball2013/05/14 07:48 AM
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                               4C/4T 4.0GHz was significantly faster than 4C/4T 3.8GHz??Mark Roulo2013/05/14 05:37 PM
                                 4C/4T 4.0GHz was significantly faster than 4C/4T 3.8GHz??RichardC2013/05/14 05:54 PM
                                  Thanks. Mark Roulo2013/05/14 06:05 PM
                                   4C/4T 4.0GHz was significantly faster than 4C/4T 3.8GHz??Exophase2013/05/14 08:10 PM
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                  How Does Silvermont Compare To A15?TREZA2013/05/16 03:17 AM
                How Does Silvermont Compare To A15?Wilco2013/05/15 05:37 PM
                  How Does Silvermont Compare To A15?David Kanter2013/05/17 08:00 AM
                    How Does Silvermont Compare To A15?Exophase2013/05/17 08:52 AM
                      How Does Silvermont Compare To A15?David Kanter2013/05/17 09:38 PM
                        How Does Silvermont Compare To A15?Exophase2013/05/17 10:33 PM
                          FYI Tegra4 has A15 in it also, so 3 devices (NT)S. Rao2013/05/22 12:59 AM
                            FYI Tegra4 has A15 in it also, so 3 devicesMichael S2013/05/22 03:21 AM
                              FYI Tegra4 has A15 in it also, so 3 devicesS. Rao2013/05/22 10:06 AM
                        How Does Silvermont Compare To A15?Wilco2013/05/19 05:19 AM
                          How Does Silvermont Compare To A15?Patrick Chase2013/05/20 09:29 AM
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                      How Does Silvermont Compare To A15?David Kanter2013/05/17 09:29 PM
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                            How Does Silvermont Compare To A15?Exophase2013/05/18 09:57 AM
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                            How Does Silvermont Compare To A15?Exophase2013/05/18 10:07 AM
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                                            Quibbling on multithreadingPaul A. Clayton2013/06/01 10:11 AM
                                              Quibbling on multithreadingrwessel2013/06/02 11:54 PM
                                                Exploiting for SMT was my "contribution"Paul A. Clayton2013/06/03 04:53 AM
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                        Silvermont architecture in-depth articleRicardo B2013/05/30 04:41 PM
                          Didn't notice how this was to be organized...Sebastian Soeiro2013/05/30 07:55 PM
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            Of course. Not enough sleep. (NT)Ricardo B2013/05/29 02:27 PM
  No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?anon2013/06/28 03:27 AM
    No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Michael S2013/06/28 04:52 AM
      No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Exophase2013/06/28 01:54 PM
        No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Michael S2013/06/29 11:21 AM
          No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Exophase2013/06/29 09:07 PM
      No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Linus Torvalds2013/06/29 12:22 PM
        No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?anon2013/06/29 05:26 PM
          No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?EduardoS2013/06/29 06:50 PM
            No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?anon2013/06/29 09:15 PM
              No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?EduardoS2013/06/29 09:31 PM
                No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?anon2013/06/30 02:53 AM
                  No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?EduardoS2013/06/30 05:24 AM
                    No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?anon2013/06/30 10:41 AM
                      No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?EduardoS2013/06/30 01:26 PM
                        No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?anon2013/07/01 12:32 AM
                          No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?EduardoS2013/07/01 05:40 PM
                            No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?anon2013/07/01 06:44 PM
                            No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Michael S2013/07/02 05:40 AM
                              No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Exophase2013/07/02 09:03 AM
                              No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?EduardoS2013/07/02 05:20 PM
                          No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Patrick Chase2013/07/02 09:25 AM
                      No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Etienne2013/07/02 04:36 AM
                        No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?anon2013/07/02 07:13 AM
                          No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Patrick Chase2013/07/02 10:03 AM
                            No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?anon2013/07/02 04:12 PM
                              No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Patrick Chase2013/07/02 04:43 PM
                                No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?anon2013/07/02 05:47 PM
                                  No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Patrick Chase2013/07/02 07:36 PM
                                    No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?anon2013/07/02 09:03 PM
                                      No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Symmetry2013/07/03 07:14 AM
                                        No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Patrick Chase2013/07/03 09:04 PM
                                          No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Patrick Chase2013/07/04 03:23 AM
                        No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Patrick Chase2013/07/02 10:01 AM
                          No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Etienne2013/07/03 03:26 AM
                            layer 2 cache behaviourEtienne2013/07/05 03:14 AM
                              layer 2 cache behaviourMichael S2013/07/05 06:41 AM
                                layer 2 cache behaviourEtienne2013/07/05 09:15 AM
                              layer 2 cache behaviourPatrick Chase2013/07/05 11:37 AM
                                layer 2 cache behaviourMichael S2013/07/06 10:57 AM
                                  layer 2 cache behaviourPatrick Chase2013/07/06 12:08 PM
                                    layer 2 cache behaviourPatrick Chase2013/07/06 12:19 PM
                                    layer 2 cache behaviourEtienne2013/07/08 03:10 AM
                                      layer 2 cache behaviourPatrick Chase2013/07/08 10:02 AM
                                  layer 2 cache behaviourPatrick Chase2013/07/06 02:15 PM
                                  layer 2 cache behaviourUngo2013/07/09 03:24 PM
                      No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Patrick Chase2013/07/02 08:43 AM
                  No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Patrick Chase2013/07/02 08:34 AM
                    No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?anon2013/07/02 04:15 PM
            No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?none2013/06/30 05:03 AM
              No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?EduardoS2013/06/30 05:45 AM
                No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?none2013/06/30 06:28 AM
                  No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?EduardoS2013/06/30 01:27 PM
        No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?x2013/06/30 03:54 AM
          No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Foo_2013/06/30 06:15 AM
        No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?rwessel2013/06/30 10:11 PM
          No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Linus Torvalds2013/07/01 01:40 PM
            No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Patrick Chase2013/07/02 10:35 AM
              No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?Linus Torvalds2013/07/02 11:18 AM
            FPU in integer codes2013/07/02 11:38 AM
              FPU in integer codesPatrick Chase2013/07/02 11:56 AM
              FPU in integer codesLinus Torvalds2013/07/02 12:12 PM
                FPU in integer codesPatrick Chase2013/07/02 12:34 PM
                  FPU in integer codesLinus Torvalds2013/07/02 01:55 PM
        No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?2013/06/30 11:42 PM
          No out-of-order in FP cluster of silvermont?bakaneko2013/07/03 03:54 AM
        What about integer SIMD?Exophase2013/07/01 12:44 AM
          What about integer SIMD?anon2013/07/01 01:45 AM
            What about integer SIMD?Michael S2013/07/01 08:57 AM
              What about integer SIMD?rwessel2013/07/01 03:39 PM
                What about integer SIMD?Michael S2013/07/01 04:11 PM
                  What about integer SIMD?EduardoS2013/07/01 06:04 PM
                    What about integer SIMD?Michael S2013/07/02 12:32 AM
          What about integer SIMD?hi2013/07/01 08:15 AM
            What about integer SIMD?Exophase2013/07/01 10:50 AM
            What about integer SIMD?David Kanter2013/07/02 01:20 PM
              What about integer SIMD?hi2013/07/02 03:48 PM
                What about integer SIMD?David Kanter2013/07/04 03:19 PM
  Silvermont architecture in-depth articleSebastian Soeiro2013/07/30 09:34 AM
    TLBs are caches of page tablesPaul A. Clayton2013/07/30 11:03 AM
      TLBs are caches of page tablesSebastian Soeiro2013/07/30 01:18 PM
        TLBs are caches of page tablesPaul A. Clayton2013/07/30 03:59 PM
          TLBs are caches of page tablesSebastian Soeiro2013/07/30 05:27 PM
            TLBs are caches of page tablesrwessel2013/07/30 07:01 PM
              TLBs are caches of page tablesSebastian Soeiro2013/07/31 02:15 PM
                Floorplan images show physical locationsPaul A. Clayton2013/07/31 04:11 PM
                  Floorplan images show physical locationsSebastian Soeiro2013/07/31 09:12 PM
                    Floorplan images show physical locationsrwessel2013/08/01 12:21 AM
                      Floorplan images show physical locationsSebastian Soeiro2013/08/02 12:58 PM
                        Floorplan images show physical locationsAntti-Ville Tuunainen2013/08/02 02:09 PM
                        Floorplan images show physical locationsStubabe2013/08/02 07:49 PM
                          Floorplan images show physical locationsSebastian Soeiro2013/08/03 08:23 AM
                            Floorplan images show physical locationsrwessel2013/08/03 11:16 PM
                            Floorplan images show physical locationsMelody Speer2013/08/04 04:11 AM
                              Floorplan images show physical locationsSebastian Soeiro2013/08/04 05:42 PM
                                Floorplan images show physical locationsrwessel2013/08/04 10:58 PM
                                  Floorplan images show physical locationsSebastian Soeiro2013/08/07 03:33 PM
                                    Floorplan images show physical locationsrwessel2013/08/08 01:03 PM
                                      Floorplan images show physical locationsSebastian Soeiro2013/08/11 09:20 AM
                                        Page tables are set up by the OSPaul A. Clayton2013/08/11 01:25 PM
                                          Page tables are set up by the OSSebastian Soeiro2013/08/16 08:43 PM
                                            Multilevel page table formatPaul A. Clayton2013/08/17 11:18 AM
                                              Multilevel page table formatSebastian Soeiro2013/08/19 03:28 PM
                                                Multilevel page table formatrwessel2013/08/20 12:08 AM
                                                  Multilevel page table formatSebastian Soeiro2013/08/22 04:52 PM
                                                    Multilevel page table formatTREZA2013/08/22 05:30 PM
                                                    Multilevel page table formatrwessel2013/08/23 10:58 PM
                                                      Multilevel page table formatSebastian Soeiro2013/08/25 08:20 AM
                TLBs are caches of page tablesrwessel2013/08/01 12:41 AM
                  TLBs are caches of page tablesSebastian Soeiro2013/08/02 12:51 PM
                    TLBs are caches of page tablesrwessel2013/08/02 06:55 PM
  Silvermont instruction schedulingHugo Décharnes2013/10/02 03:25 AM
    Silvermont instruction schedulingMichael S2013/10/02 04:29 AM
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