Charlie re: Apple and ARM

By: Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org), September 25, 2013 9:23 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
anon (anon.delete@this.anon.com) on September 25, 2013 8:02 am wrote:
> Kevin G (kevin.delete@this.cubitdesigns.com) on September 25, 2013 7:18 am wrote:
> > Simon Farnsworth (simon.delete@this.farnz.org.uk) on September 25, 2013 5:32 am wrote:
> > > anon (anon.delete@this.anon.com) on September 25, 2013 4:22 am wrote:
> > > > Simon Farnsworth (simon.delete@this.farnz.org.uk) on September 25, 2013 4:06 am wrote:
> > > > > Here's some uninformed speculation for you: Intel's biggest design advantage over their
> > > > > ARM competition is their skill in memory controllers. Iris Pro 5200 shows that one trick
> > > > > Intel can pull off is eDRAM designed for high performance; if Intel can sustain that performance,
> > > > > but offer low power consumption, you get the following speculation:
> > > > >
> > > > > Intel will offer a future phone/tablet chip with eDRAM on package replacing external memory completely (2
> > > > > GiB, 4 GiB, 16 GiB, whatever is appropriate to the market at the time). This chip will be expensive for
> > > > > the performance level it provides, but will always win power consumption measurements (and thus battery
> > > > > life benchmarks), by a large margin for applications that make heavy use of GPU and CPU, and a small margin
> > > > > for applications whose power consumption is dominated by other system components such as the screen.
> > > > >
> > > > > By being lower power consumption while having comparable performance to competing chips, it gives
> > > > > Intel-based phones and tablets a power consumption advantage. This, in turn, gets Intel design
> > > > > wins in high-end Android devices, as they can either design a nicer case with a smaller battery,
> > > > > or use the same battery size as a competing design, but with a longer battery life.
> > > > >
> > > > > All speculation, and it turns on Intel being able to offer
> > > > > low power, high performance eDRAM to make the sale.
> > > >
> > > > IBM has a lot of experience with eDRAM memory now, and
> > > > they share a lot of process tech with other foundries.
> > > >
> > > > Intel *may* get there first if they have a density edge, but if the technique
> > > > gives an advantage, I don't think others will be too far behind.
> > > >
> > >
> > > In my speculative world, you need both eDRAM process technology (and I'd be surprised too if Intel
> > > was ahead of anyone there, given IBM's long experience with it) and decent memory controller design
> > > experience to exploit eDRAM. IBM has that experience, as does Intel; I'm not sure how much experience
> > > the ARM vendors have with designing high performance, high efficiency memory controllers (my experience
> > > of ARM-based SoCs is that the memory subsystem is the biggest let-down in system performance).
> >
> > For eDRAM to be beneficial in the desired capacities (say 4 GB for smart phones), it would need to
> > be delivered across multiple dies. Intel and IBM both have experience with traditional MCM's but
> > they will need to move to TSV, interposers and/or other exotic packing techniques to meet the small
> > area requirements. Neither Intel or IBM have shipped products using these yet to my knowledge.
>
> No, but it seems on the verge of happening.
>
> http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1262885
>
> Of course, it's been talked about for a decade or more, but IBM says they actually have a roadmap
> now. Huge capacity and low power seems to coincide with what IBM wants from last level caches
> on high end machines, which may make it suitable for mobile too, if the cost is right.
>
> >
> > As for ARM-based SoC designers having experience with high performance
> > memory controllers, Apple has at least proven competition in this area.
>
> And ARM Holdings. Nvidia is no stranger to high performance memory controllers,
> and neither is AMD. Memory controllers are not the problem.
>

It's worth noting just WHY IBM cares about eDRAM, and why they are willing to spend so much for it.
Let's recall that hyper threading sounded like a great idea when it was first proposed, and the first commercialized, around 15 years ago. But the results were continually disappointing. Why?

The basic problem is that the bulk of dead time in execution is waiting for loads that miss in the LLC. We want our hyperthread to do something useful during that time. BUT unfortunately our hyperthread lands up using some fraction of the LLC for its own purposes. And so we have that, yes, the other hyperthread CAN work when main thread is waiting on DRAM --- but in the process it shrinks the effective size of LLC, and this effect can be worse than the win of using dead time. All this holds regardless of other issues like whether or not you do a crappy job of the buffers you provide to your threads, how you schedule them etc.

Exactly how this balances out depends on the workload and the LLC size. As we know, for most workloads, and once the mechanical details (buffers, scheduling) don't suck, for Intel sized LLCs (so about 1.5MB to 2MB/core) a hyperthread is worth about 25% of a core. Better than zero, but not great.

IBM, selling big iron POWER boxes to people who run lots of threads want to do better than this --- they'd like their hyperthreading to work so that every slot of every CPU is constantly active. They solve this by throwing a MASSIVE LLC cache at the problem, like 80MB (10MB/core) on the theory that "god damn it, now maybe you threads will stop fighting and play nice together". I don't know if they've ever given numbers, but this would give 2.5MB/thread (IBM can run up 4 threads/core) which beats Intel's 1.5..2MB/core, which in turn suggests that for most code you ARE going to hit the goal here --- the actual CPU has basically every slot occupied every cycle.
I don't think IBM have ever released numbers, but they thought it worthwhile to up the thread count from 2 to 4, so presumably the scheme works to some extent.

OK, point of all this is that IBM is trying to solve a very particular problem with their eDRAM. A problem that in no way maps onto mobile. I don't know if we have any evidence that a larger than 2MB or so LLC per core (or thread, if you were to hyperthread) is worth the cost (especially in energy).

The Intel reason for eDRAM (fast communication between GPU and CPU, large working space for GPU) is closer to mobile. It is quite possible that Apple already do this on the A7 --- there is a large block of what looks like 4MB of cache next to the GPUs, but off the CPUs, and to me its most likely job is to act like Crystalwell. Of course a larger version of that would be nice, but what Apple has seems to do the job.

Point is --- both of these are a FAR cry from 2GB of working RAM for the system. I think the gap between what's needed and what can be done is too far for that to be bridged. More relevant is something like a better Crystalwell, but even that may not be interesting until it can either be done on-die or CHEAPLY with TSVs.
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TopicPosted ByDate
Charlie re: Apple and ARMjose2013/09/23 03:43 AM
  Charlie re: Apple and ARMMark Roulo2013/09/23 06:38 AM
    graphics and disk matter tooRichardC2013/09/23 11:23 AM
    Charlie re: Apple and ARMJose2013/09/24 05:56 AM
      Previous CPU transitionsMark Roulo2013/09/24 06:20 AM
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  Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/23 08:16 AM
  Charlie re: Apple and ARMPatrick Chase2013/09/23 08:43 AM
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      Charlie re: Apple and ARMPatrick Chase2013/09/23 09:17 AM
        Charlie re: Apple and ARMGabriele Svelto2013/09/23 09:24 AM
          Charlie re: Apple and ARMPatrick Chase2013/09/23 09:40 AM
        Charlie re: Apple and ARMsomeone2013/09/23 11:42 AM
          Charlie re: Apple and ARMPatrick Chase2013/09/23 05:47 PM
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        Charlie re: Apple and ARMMichael S2013/09/23 10:02 AM
          Charlie re: Apple and ARMsomeone2013/09/23 11:57 AM
            Charlie re: Apple and ARMMichael S2013/09/23 02:56 PM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARMRicardo B2013/09/23 11:32 PM
          Charlie re: Apple and ARMMartin Høyer Kristiansen2013/09/23 12:30 PM
      Charlie re: Apple and ARMNiels Jørgen Kruse2013/09/23 10:09 AM
        Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/23 04:09 PM
      Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/23 11:03 AM
        Charlie re: Apple and ARMMichael S2013/09/23 03:27 PM
          Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/23 03:39 PM
          Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/23 04:22 PM
            Charlie re: Apple and ARMsomeone2013/09/24 07:13 AM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/24 09:24 AM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMsomeone2013/09/24 09:41 AM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/24 04:54 PM
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                      The decline of ItaniumKira2013/09/25 05:07 AM
                        The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/25 05:15 AM
                          The decline of ItaniumKira2013/09/25 05:21 AM
                            Does Secure64 sell hardware?Paul A. Clayton2013/09/25 07:18 AM
                              Does Secure64 sell hardware?Kira2013/09/25 08:18 AM
                                Turns out they do rx2800 now. (NT)Kira2013/09/25 08:20 AM
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                      The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/25 08:34 AM
                        The decline of ItaniumDavid Hess2013/09/25 04:10 PM
                          The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/25 07:15 PM
                            The decline of ItaniumDavid Hess2013/09/27 07:11 AM
                              The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/27 04:37 PM
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                                      i960someone2013/09/27 12:06 PM
                                        i960Michael S2013/09/28 08:47 AM
                                          i960JS2013/09/29 01:43 AM
                                    The decline of ItaniumDavid Hess2013/09/28 09:00 AM
                                      The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/28 09:51 AM
                                        The decline of ItaniumDavid Hess2013/09/28 10:59 AM
                                          The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/28 11:43 AM
                                            The decline of ItaniumDavid Hess2013/09/28 07:53 PM
                                        The decline of Itaniumgallier22013/09/30 12:06 AM
                                          x86 MCUsMichael S2013/09/30 01:13 AM
                                The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/27 08:52 AM
                                  The decline of Itaniumsomeone2013/09/27 10:29 AM
                                The decline of ItaniumKira2013/09/27 09:19 AM
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                          The decline of ItaniumDavid Hess2013/09/27 07:06 AM
                            The decline of Itaniumsomeone2013/09/27 07:25 AM
                              The decline of ItaniumLinus Torvalds2013/09/27 09:07 AM
                                The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/27 05:09 PM
                                  The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/27 06:07 PM
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                                      Laptop DesignBrett2013/09/28 02:14 PM
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                                      Laptop DesignRichardC2013/09/28 04:14 PM
                                        Laptop DesignDavid Hess2013/09/28 07:40 PM
                                          Laptop DesignMichael S2013/09/29 02:21 AM
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                                        PS2Doug S2013/09/30 10:09 AM
                                        PS2sysanon2013/09/30 04:09 PM
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                                      Apple's innovationsRichardC2013/09/29 06:00 AM
                                      The decline of ItaniumBrett2013/09/29 01:56 PM
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                                          Apple's innovationsBrett2013/10/10 07:20 PM
                                The decline of ItaniumRichardC2013/09/28 04:44 AM
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                                              The decline of IntelRichardC2013/09/30 06:19 AM
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                                                            450mm and EUV insertiontarlinian2013/10/04 11:23 AM
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                                                                The decline of Intelnone2013/10/02 01:18 AM
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                                                                    The decline of Intelanon2013/10/02 01:57 AM
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                                                                        Intel vs. industry gapMaynard Handley2013/10/02 04:59 PM
                                                                          Intel vs. industry gaptarlinian2013/10/02 05:13 PM
                                                                            Intel vs. industry gapAnon2013/10/02 11:15 PM
                                                                              Intel vs. industry gaptarlinian2013/10/03 08:01 AM
                                                                          Intel vs. industry gapDavid Kanter2013/10/02 09:10 PM
                                                                            Intel vs. industry gapDoug S2013/10/03 08:59 AM
                                                                              Intel vs. industry gapanon2013/10/03 03:12 PM
                                                                                Intel vs. industry gapDoug S2013/10/03 03:56 PM
                                                                                  Intel vs. industry gapanon2013/10/03 04:48 PM
                                                                                  Intel vs. industry gapanonymou52013/10/03 04:59 PM
                                                                                    Intel vs. industry gapmas2013/10/04 12:10 AM
                                                                    The decline of IntelKlimax2013/10/02 02:46 AM
                                                                  The decline of Intelanon2013/10/02 01:53 AM
                                                              The decline of Inteltarlinian2013/10/02 08:24 AM
                                                      The decline of IntelDavid Kanter2013/10/01 08:06 AM
                                                        The decline of IntelPurana Archer2013/10/01 11:09 PM
                                                          The decline of Inteltarlinian2013/10/02 07:58 AM
                                                          The decline of IntelDavid Kanter2013/10/02 09:45 AM
                                                            The decline of IntelPurana Archer2013/10/04 05:38 AM
                                                              The decline of IntelDavid Kanter2013/10/04 11:41 PM
                                                                The decline of IntelKevin G2013/10/05 07:14 AM
                                                                  The decline of IntelNiels Jørgen Kruse2013/10/05 11:49 AM
                                                                    The decline of IntelKevin G2013/10/06 07:45 AM
                                                                    The decline of IntelDoug S2013/10/06 09:11 PM
                                                                      The decline of IntelNiels Jørgen Kruse2013/10/07 05:14 AM
                                                                        The decline of IntelDoug S2013/10/07 03:36 PM
                                                           Tool Reuse, CAPEX EfficiencyAnonym2013/10/02 12:37 PM
                                                             Tool Reuse, CAPEX Efficiencytarlinian2013/10/02 02:55 PM
                                                      capex spendingDoug S2013/10/01 11:06 AM
                                                        Reducing Intel's lead with less than twice the spending??Paul A. Clayton2013/10/01 04:27 PM
                                                          Reducing Intel's lead with less than twice the spending??anon2013/10/01 07:07 PM
                                                            Reducing Intel's lead with less than twice the spending??mas2013/10/01 10:04 PM
                                                            Reducing Intel's lead with less than twice the spending??mas2013/10/01 10:06 PM
                                                              Reducing Intel's lead with less than twice the spending??mas2013/10/01 10:06 PM
                                                  Intel fabs on 22nmAlberto2013/10/01 02:23 AM
                                                  The decline of Intelmas2013/10/01 03:24 PM
                                                The decline of Intelanon2013/09/30 05:00 PM
                                          The decline of ItaniumDavid Kanter2013/09/29 10:19 PM
                                            competitive marketRichardC2013/09/30 05:33 AM
                                              competitive marketDavid Kanter2013/09/30 07:39 AM
                                                competitive marketRichardC2013/09/30 08:08 AM
                                                  competitive marketDavid Kanter2013/09/30 11:08 AM
                                                    competitive marketRichardC2013/09/30 01:00 PM
                                                    competitive marketAnon2013/10/02 11:34 PM
                                              competitive marketDoug S2013/09/30 10:13 AM
                                                competitive marketRichardC2013/09/30 10:28 AM
                              The decline of ItaniumKevin G2013/09/27 09:07 AM
                              The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/27 10:30 AM
                                The decline of Itaniumsomeone2013/09/27 11:00 AM
                                  The decline of ItaniumTREZA2013/09/27 12:50 PM
                                    The decline of ItaniumMegol2013/09/27 11:52 PM
                                  The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/27 04:03 PM
                                    The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/28 02:22 AM
                                      The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/28 08:00 AM
                                        That's BSDavid Kanter2013/09/28 08:22 AM
                                        The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/28 04:15 PM
                                        The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 08:01 AM
                                          The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 08:06 AM
                                          The decline of ItaniumKevin G2013/09/29 10:06 AM
                                            Apple has 2-3 CPU design teamsDavid Kanter2013/09/29 10:39 AM
                                              The End of Moore's Lawhobold2013/09/30 02:00 AM
                                                Lower cost to process scaling can no longer be assumed.Mark Roulo2013/09/30 09:50 AM
                                                  Lower cost to process scaling can no longer be assumed.David Kanter2013/09/30 12:41 PM
                                                    Lower cost to process scaling can no longer be assumed.EduardoS2013/09/30 01:05 PM
                                                    Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Mark Roulo2013/09/30 02:15 PM
                                                      Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?mas2013/09/30 07:09 PM
                                                      Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Doug S2013/09/30 07:16 PM
                                                        Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?mas2013/09/30 08:05 PM
                                                          Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Doug S2013/10/01 11:28 AM
                                                            Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?mas2013/10/01 03:20 PM
                                                              Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Doug S2013/10/01 07:51 PM
                                                          Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Exophase2013/10/01 12:03 PM
                                                            Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?mas2013/10/01 03:17 PM
                                                              Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Exophase2013/10/01 09:18 PM
                                                                Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Doug S2013/10/02 09:18 AM
                                                                  Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Exophase2013/10/02 09:28 AM
                                                    Lower cost to process scaling can no longer be assumed.tarlinian2013/09/30 06:02 PM
                                                      Lower cost to process scaling can no longer be assumed.David Kanter2013/09/30 08:20 PM
                                                The End of Moore's LawGreg Gritton2013/10/01 08:11 AM
                                                  The End of Moore's LawKevin G2013/10/02 09:48 AM
                                    The decline of ItaniumFoo_2013/09/28 07:50 AM
                                  The decline of ItaniumRicardo B2013/09/28 03:17 PM
                                The decline of ItaniumDan Fay2013/09/27 01:51 PM
                                  The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/28 09:58 AM
                                    The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/28 10:39 AM
                                      The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/28 12:11 PM
                                        The decline of ItaniumDan Fay2013/09/28 02:38 PM
                                          The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/28 04:09 PM
                                            The decline of ItaniumDan Fay2013/09/28 04:59 PM
                                            The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 05:45 AM
                                              The decline of Itaniumnone2013/09/29 06:10 AM
                                                Bay Trail die costmas2013/09/29 06:31 AM
                                                  Bay Trail die costnone2013/09/29 06:40 AM
                                                    Bay Trail die costmas2013/09/29 07:11 AM
                                                      Bay Trail die costmas2013/09/29 07:16 AM
                                                      Bay Trail die costDoug S2013/09/29 10:13 AM
                                                        Bay Trail die costmas2013/09/29 10:59 AM
                                                  Bay Trail die costRichardC2013/10/01 05:20 AM
                                              The decline of Itaniumbakaneko2013/09/29 07:59 AM
                                                The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 08:16 AM
                                                The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 08:31 AM
                                                  The decline of Itaniumbakaneko2013/09/29 08:48 AM
                                                    The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 10:12 AM
                                                      The decline of Itaniumbakaneko2013/09/29 10:53 AM
                                                        The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 11:11 AM
                                                          The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/29 02:15 PM
                                                            The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 10:28 PM
                                                              The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/30 12:26 AM
                                                                The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/30 06:20 AM
                                                                  The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/30 07:04 PM
                                                                    The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/30 07:42 PM
                                                                      The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/30 10:32 PM
                                                                        The decline of ItaniumDavid Kanter2013/09/30 11:43 PM
                                                                          The decline of Itaniumanon2013/10/01 01:37 AM
                                                                            The decline of ItaniumDavid Kanter2013/10/01 08:17 AM
                                                                        The decline of Itaniummas2013/10/01 12:54 AM
                                                                          The decline of Itaniumanon2013/10/01 01:39 AM
                                                          The decline of Itaniumbakaneko2013/09/30 03:26 AM
                                                      The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/29 02:08 PM
                                                        The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/29 03:50 PM
                                                          The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 10:42 PM
                                                          Semiconductor realitiesDavid Kanter2013/09/30 10:30 AM
                                                            Restricted rules for initial process use at foundries?Paul A. Clayton2013/09/30 03:33 PM
                                                              Restricted rules for initial process use at foundries?Ricardo B2013/09/30 11:47 PM
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                                                $150 7" 800p Z2580 Dell Venue 7RichardC2013/10/03 07:51 AM
                                                  $150 7" 800p Z2580 Dell Venue 7mas2013/10/03 08:41 AM
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                                                    $150 7" 800p Z2580 Dell Venue 7Michael S2013/10/03 09:58 AM
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                                                      cheap would be in kindle fireRichardC2013/10/03 10:12 AM
                                                      $150 7" 800p Z2580 Dell Venue 7none2013/10/03 10:13 AM
                                                        Samsung Galaxy Tab battery lifeMichael S2013/10/03 01:18 PM
                                                          Samsung Galaxy Tab battery lifenone2013/10/03 02:17 PM
                                                            Samsung Galaxy Tab battery lifeExophase2013/10/03 02:42 PM
                                          The decline of Itaniumnone2013/09/29 01:15 AM
                                            The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/29 10:25 AM
                                              The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 11:23 AM
                                              Qualcomm?David Kanter2013/09/29 10:45 PM
                                                Qualcomm?none2013/09/30 12:36 AM
                                                  Qualcomm?Alberto2013/10/01 08:03 AM
                                                  Qualcomm?Alberto2013/10/01 12:03 PM
                                        A7 much faster at graphics than BayTrailThu2013/09/28 07:52 PM
                                          A7 much faster at graphics than BayTrailMichael S2013/09/29 01:24 AM
                                            A7 much faster at graphics than BayTrailMaynard Handley2013/09/29 08:41 AM
                                            A7 much faster at graphics than BayTrailbakaneko2013/09/29 09:44 AM
                                              A7 much faster at graphics than BayTrailLinus Torvalds2013/09/29 01:22 PM
                                                A7 much faster at graphics than BayTrailnone2013/09/29 02:37 PM
                              The decline of Itaniumanoanon2013/09/28 03:14 AM
                                The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/28 10:44 AM
                              The decline of ItaniumDavid Hess2013/09/28 08:31 AM
                            The decline of ItaniumKevin G2013/09/27 08:47 AM
                              The decline of ItaniumDavid Hess2013/10/05 05:35 PM
                                The decline of ItaniumKevin G2013/10/06 07:55 AM
                                  The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/10/06 08:13 AM
                            The decline of Itaniumbakaneko2013/09/27 09:10 AM
                              The decline of Itaniumsomeone2013/09/27 11:24 AM
                                The decline of ItaniumEduardoS2013/09/27 12:39 PM
                                  The decline of Itaniumsomeone2013/09/27 01:38 PM
                                    The decline of ItaniumEduardoS2013/09/27 02:49 PM
                                      The decline of Itaniumsomeone2013/09/28 08:20 AM
                                        The decline of ItaniumEduardoS2013/09/28 10:05 AM
                                  The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/27 08:22 PM
                                    The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/27 11:45 PM
                                      The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/28 02:08 AM
                                    The decline of ItaniumEduardoS2013/09/28 10:08 AM
                                      The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/28 04:17 PM
                                        The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/29 02:29 AM
                                The decline of Itaniumbakaneko2013/09/27 12:41 PM
                                Difficulty of measuring performance from ArchitecturePaul A. Clayton2013/09/27 02:23 PM
                                  Difficulty of measuring performance from Architecturesomeone2013/09/27 03:46 PM
                                    Difficulty of measuring performance from ArchitectureEduardoS2013/09/27 03:52 PM
                                      Difficulty of measuring performance from Architecturesomeone2013/09/27 04:10 PM
                                The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/27 04:09 PM
                                  The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/28 10:19 AM
                                why did you exclude EV7?Michael S2013/09/28 10:16 AM
                                  why did you exclude EV7?slacker2013/09/28 07:37 PM
                                    why did you exclude EV7?Michael S2013/09/28 11:50 PM
                                    Wasn't Athlon XP also copper interconnect? (NT)Paul A. Clayton2013/09/29 09:06 AM
                                      Wasn't Athlon XP also copper interconnect?slacker2013/09/29 02:17 PM
                                        Was the SPEC CPU2000 result CU or Al?Paul A. Clayton2013/09/30 04:14 PM
                                          Was the SPEC CPU2000 result CU or Al?slacker2013/10/01 01:48 AM
                              The decline of ItaniumRicardo B2013/09/28 03:23 PM
                                The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/29 02:46 AM
                          The decline of ItaniumMegol2013/09/27 10:02 AM
                            The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/28 12:31 PM
            Charlie re: Apple and ARMSimon Farnsworth2013/09/25 03:06 AM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 03:22 AM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMSimon Farnsworth2013/09/25 04:32 AM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 04:59 AM
                    Charlie re: Apple and ARMDavid Kanter2013/09/25 12:26 PM
                      Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 04:32 PM
                  future of eDRAMbakaneko2013/09/25 05:58 AM
                    future of eDRAManon2013/09/25 06:43 AM
                      future of eDRAMbakaneko2013/09/25 08:00 AM
                        future of eDRAManon2013/09/25 08:24 AM
                          future of eDRAMbakaneko2013/09/25 10:46 AM
                            future of eDRAManon2013/09/25 04:39 PM
                              future of eDRAMbakaneko2013/09/26 09:51 AM
                                future of eDRAMDavid Kanter2013/09/28 09:29 AM
                              future of eDRAMbakaneko2013/09/27 04:23 AM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARMKevin G2013/09/25 06:18 AM
                    Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 07:02 AM
                      Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/25 09:23 AM
                        Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 09:59 AM
                        Charlie re: Apple and ARMNiels Jørgen Kruse2013/09/25 10:59 AM
                          Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/25 11:46 AM
                        Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/25 01:15 PM
                          POWER8 has 8 threads per coreMark Roulo2013/09/25 03:18 PM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMsomeone2013/09/25 07:07 AM
                  Thanks, very informative (NT)anon2013/09/25 07:11 AM
                  Keep in mind IBM has eDRAM elsewhere than POWER (NT)anon2013/09/25 10:03 AM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARMRichardC2013/09/25 06:12 AM
              It isn't just memory controllersMark Roulo2013/09/25 08:09 AM
        Charlie re: Apple and ARMFoo_2013/09/23 11:52 PM
    Charlie re: Apple and ARMDrazick2013/09/23 09:29 AM
    Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/23 10:55 AM
      Charlie re: Apple and ARMDrazick2013/09/23 11:00 AM
      Charlie re: Apple and ARMMichael S2013/09/23 03:01 PM
      Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/23 04:31 PM
        Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/23 06:34 PM
    Charlie re: Apple and ARMAlberto2013/09/24 12:11 PM
      Charlie re: Apple and ARMWilco2013/09/24 05:17 PM
        Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/24 07:44 PM
          Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 12:56 AM
            Charlie re: Apple and ARMnone2013/09/25 01:50 AM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 02:06 AM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARMWilco2013/09/25 02:14 AM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 02:28 AM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARMMichael S2013/09/25 03:24 AM
                    Charlie re: Apple and ARMnone2013/09/25 03:55 AM
                    Charlie re: Apple and ARMEduardoS2013/09/25 01:07 PM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/25 09:01 AM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMAlberto2013/09/25 12:12 PM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/25 01:23 PM
          Charlie re: Apple and ARMWilco2013/09/25 01:45 AM
            Charlie re: Apple and ARMLinus Torvalds2013/09/25 04:49 PM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARMMichael S2013/09/26 09:52 AM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/26 10:51 AM
                  Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsMark Roulo2013/09/26 12:04 PM
                    Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsDoug S2013/09/26 01:07 PM
                      Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsMark Roulo2013/09/26 02:06 PM
                        Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsDoug S2013/09/26 05:21 PM
                          Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsrwessel2013/09/26 05:44 PM
                          Animated GIF seems slow on iPadssysanon2013/09/27 03:33 PM
                            Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsDoug S2013/09/27 05:29 PM
                              Animated GIF seems slow on iPadssysanon2013/09/27 07:36 PM
                                Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsDoug S2013/09/27 08:07 PM
                                  Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsanonymou52013/09/27 11:58 PM
                              Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsJ.Random Webmasta2013/09/28 12:11 AM
                        Slow with Core i7 920Jouni Osmala2013/09/26 10:25 PM
                    Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsNoSpammer2013/09/27 12:13 AM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/26 12:18 PM
                    Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/26 01:19 PM
                      Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/26 01:35 PM
                      Charlie re: Apple and ARMJohn Poole2013/09/26 02:11 PM
                        Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/26 05:31 PM
                          Charlie re: Apple and ARMJohn Poole2013/09/27 10:02 PM
                      Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)David W2013/09/27 12:47 AM
                        Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)David Kanter2013/09/28 09:09 AM
                          Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)David Hess2013/09/28 09:21 AM
                            Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Michael S2013/09/28 10:00 AM
                              Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)David Hess2013/09/28 10:27 AM
                              Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)bakaneko2013/09/28 11:11 AM
                                Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Michael S2013/09/28 11:50 AM
                                  Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)EduardoS2013/09/28 12:50 PM
                                    Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Michael S2013/09/28 01:05 PM
                                  Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Doug S2013/09/28 04:15 PM
                                    Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)David Hess2013/09/28 07:03 PM
                                      Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Gabriele Svelto2013/09/30 03:23 AM
                                        Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Jukka Larja2013/09/30 06:23 AM
                                          Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Doug S2013/09/30 07:19 PM
                                            Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Jukka Larja2013/10/01 03:55 AM
                                              Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Rob Thorpe2013/10/01 07:26 AM
                                                Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Michael S2013/10/01 12:53 PM
                                                  Adobe Acrobat reader start up timeMichael S2013/10/02 12:19 AM
                                                    Adobe Acrobat reader start up timebdcrazy2013/10/11 05:28 AM
                          Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultRob Thorpe2013/10/01 07:14 AM
                            Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultj2013/10/01 10:12 AM
                              There are two of us (or three)Mark Roulo2013/10/01 12:15 PM
                              Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultRob Thorpe2013/10/01 03:05 PM
                            Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultSymmetry2013/10/02 11:51 AM
                              Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultDoug S2013/10/02 06:44 PM
                                Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultrwessel2013/10/02 10:21 PM
                                  Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultClemens Ladisch2013/10/02 11:20 PM
                                    Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultrwessel2013/10/03 12:12 AM
                                  Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultSymmetry2013/10/03 05:19 AM
                                Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultGabriele Svelto2013/10/03 01:05 AM
                                  Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultDoug S2013/10/03 09:15 AM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARMJohn Poole2013/09/26 01:59 PM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/26 02:53 PM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARMJohn Poole2013/10/01 09:55 PM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMLinus Torvalds2013/09/26 07:15 PM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARMJohn Poole2013/10/01 09:45 PM
                    Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/10/02 09:14 AM
                      Charlie re: Apple and ARMJohn Poole2013/10/02 09:03 PM
                        Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/10/02 11:00 PM
                        Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/10/03 09:08 AM
        Charlie re: Apple and ARMAlberto2013/09/25 12:50 PM
    Charlie re: Apple and ARMRonald Maas2013/09/24 09:39 PM
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How do you spell avocado?