Brett (ggtgp.delete@this.yahoo.com) on September 28, 2013 3:14 pm wrote:
> David Hess (davidwhess.delete@this.gmail.com) on September 28, 2013 10:58 am wrote:
>
> > Many of the features Apple introduced and other copied are things I do *not* want in a laptop.
> >
> > Chiclet keys just take me back to the days of the TRS-80 Color Computer.
> > I did not like Chiclet keyboards then and I still do not like them.
>
> Apple CARES about ergonomics, it only looks like a chiclet keyboard. That said you
> cannot do full travel keys in a thin design, it will take a week to get used to.

Apple cares about style that sells. Currently that includes a thin profile, a glossy glare susceptible display, and a sleek keyboard. Every time I visit a store that has laptops on display, I spend a few minutes testing them out including the keyboards and I get some strange looks from salespeople and customers when I stare off into the distance touch typing *fast* for a few minutes on each keyboard. I did not even settle for those "consumer" rated abbreviated 101 keyboards they were trying to push a couple years ago although apparently whatever that marketing angle was failed since I have not seen any for a while.

> > I would much prefer "tough" to "thin" and the whole embedded non-replacable battery thing
> > just rankles me because of my existing experience with the life expectancy and failure
> > modes of prismatic lithium-polymer batteries. When they wear out they have a tendency
> > to expand in volume and crush everything normal to their largest area surfaces.
>
> You cannot build a thin laptop with round cells in a cartridge:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlUBBwEuHCs

That is true enough but I would compromise thickness for user replaceable batteries and rubber bumpers on the corners and edges.

> With flat pack polymer cell batteries you can have more individual cells (~ten) and wire
> them up with smart electronics so you discharge them one at a time and do wear leveling.
> So a half discharged laptop has half its batteries go though a recharge cycle. You can also
> pack in 10 hours of charge into that weight/space instead of the more typical 6.
> Apple expects you to get 5 years of use out of their batteries, three times the lifespan
> of (smart?) replaceable batteries. By then you will be wanting a new laptop anyway.

Are they actually wired to discharge them one at a time? I guess that would make sense if their irregular arrangement meant that some cells were by design higher capacity than others. They must support very low internal resistance to operate at that low an impedance.

Compared to that much effort, it would be just as easy to include cell balancing at the individual level during both charge and discharge which is what I have done in the past when high reliability was called for.

> I went to the Dell site for comparison, but they do not list how many hours a laptop will last, and
> the online customer rep would only quote "4 Cell 40 WHr Battery", for a Inspiron 15 Touch which actually
> has a 6 cell battery... Trying to ask if the battery was smart or dumb is just futile.
> Dell quotes 600 recharge cycles, verses 1000 for Apple, and you have to figure it is a dumb
> battery charging/discharging all six cells at the same time, so it will last ~2 years.
> On the upside $300 is sure a lot cheaper than ~$1000.
>
> HP quotes 80% initial capacity after 300 cycles, giving me severe doubt about Dells 600 cycle claim. I have a
> rarely used cheap laptop that I left plugged in, and after 3 years when I went to use it, it lasted 2 minutes.
> Recharged the battery to full and got another 3 minutes out of it. Works fine with a new battery, battery management
> by me and the software was poor. If this was a smart battery it was so cheap that it did not matter.

I would not trust the specifications for expected battery lifetime given by any manufacturer and I would especially not trust Dell or HP. Comparisons between them will be useless. These are the same guys who could not figure out how to dim an LCD cold cathode fluorescent backlight.

Assuming that the lithium chemistry battery is not actually mistreated, then lowering the range over which it is charged and discharged can significantly extend its lifetime. Essentially you can trade capacity for life and total energy if you avoid charging or discharging it over a larger range. Lithium chemistries have some interesting nonlinear side reactions which cause premature aging if they are left charged to a high state so if you only charge them to say 80% capacity, then they last a lot longer.

> > Had I built a few small form factor PCs with arrangements to carry data back and forth between
> > them instead of buying my last last laptop, then the PCs would still be usable while the expensive
> > laptop which I had to return twice for warranty repairs is now a pile of junk.
>
> You got robbed, which is why people buy cheap crap, so they
> know what they are getting and paid that much for it.
> If you want to know which laptops are lemons go on eBay and look at the resale values.
>
> Basically you can pay $300 for cheap heavy junk, or $1000 for a nice light Apple with Windows dual
> boot. I went with cheap crap as I don't need a laptop except when traveling on vacation, but now
> that use is getting replaced by iPad. I cannot see that I will ever buy another laptop.

That was my conclusion. It was an aluminum cased Fujitsu E series Lifebook if that matters but the whole episode left a bad taste.

If I need another laptop, I will probably hit up an amateur radio swap meet where there are lots of old but reconditioned units available inexpensively that have passed their infant mortality test. Another option might be an industrial grade tough laptop of some sort but I am reluctant to pay new prices now on something that is essentially expendable at the manufacturer's whim.