The End of Moore's Law

By: Kevin G (kevin.delete@this.cubitdesigns.com), October 2, 2013 9:48 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Greg Gritton (GregNada.delete@this.gmail.com) on October 1, 2013 9:11 am wrote:
> hobold (hobold.delete@this.vectorizer.org) on September 30, 2013 3:00 am wrote:
> > David Kanter (dkanter.delete@this.realworldtech.com) on September 29, 2013 11:39 am wrote:
> > [...]
> > > That being said, I think the move from 28nm to 20nm or 16nm will be very tricky
> > > because the process technology won't be as much help as everyone thinks.
> > >
> >
> > It seems to me that the end of Moore's Law is something that no one wanted to
> > see coming, but everybody will say "I told you so" as soon as we're beyond.
> >
> > IMHO the benefits of Moore's Law will end quite a bit before transistors stop shrinking.
> > In the good ole' days, a shrink of structure size gave us three nice consequences:
> >
> > 1. lower energy consumption
> > 2. higher switching speeds
> > 3. lower cost
> >
> > Back when Pentium 4 was the first major CPU to be made in 90nm, the first
> > of those three consequences started to vanish. (It seems to me the lion's
> > share of design efforts these days is focused on compensating for this.)
> >
> > Today, number two on the list is on its way out.
> >
> > Number three will be next. I suspect that the difficulties and
> > cost of moving to 450mm wafer size is foreshadowing this.
> >
> > Nevertheless, transistors could continue to shrink a bit
> > further, and nominally support the letters of Moore's
> > Law a bit longer. I am just not sure if it will actually be done when there is no real benefit to be had.
>
> So far, the benefits haven't completely stopped, but just slowed down.
>
> Process shrinks in the 1990s gave huge benefits, sometimes doubling performance
> by the time the process generation was complete and the design had been tweaked
> to take advantage of the new process.
>
> Intel processors make a good example. In mid 1997 Intel introduced the
> "Klamath" Pentium II processor, fabricated on a 350nm process, at 233-266MHZ.
> By late 1997 the fastest bin was up to 300MHz. Going to the 250nm process in January 1998
> initially only sped up the design to 266-333MHz (with "Descutes"), but by late 1998
> that design was up to 450MHZ, 50% faster than 350nm's fastest. Meanwhile, intel
> introduced the Pentium III design with with a similar pipeline, Katmai, that
> started at 450-500MHZ February of 1999, and eventually made it to 600MHz by August.
> The next generation "Coppermine" processors, on 180nm, started at 500-733MHZ in October
> 1999 and eventually made 1.3GHz by 2001. (Note that the pipelines of these processors
> are similar, so MHz is a reasonable proxy for process performance.)

Coppermine only went to 1 Ghz and the 1.1 Ghz models were recalled. The Pentium 3 did make it to 1.4 Ghz but required another shrink to 130 nm to get there.

The Pentim 4 did launch using a 180 nm and reached 2.0 Ghz. The Pentium 4 on 130 nm would be a better example as it scaled from 1.6 Ghz to 3.46 Ghz.

> Performance benefited from the reduced capacitance of smaller features.
> Power per transistor not only benefited from the reduced capacitance, but it got a larger
> benefit from the fact that the voltage was reduced with every process generation.
> But, this stopped once voltage hit 1V. Process shrinks still helped power per transistor,
> but more closely spaced lines meant higher capacitance, and hence power, per area and MHz.
> The continued exponential increase in transistors meant dramatically increasing chip
> power, which needed increasingly sophisticated design techniques to combat.
>
> Power was one wall, but transistor speeds don't increase with each process shrink as
> much as they used to, and wiring can sometimes actually get slower. So, while a leading
> edge process still buys improved performance, the degree of improvement is much smaller
> than it used to be.
>
> Meanwhile, "Moore's second law", or "Rock's law", says that the cost of a fab doubles every
> 4 years. Evetually, the increasing cost of a new process generation will exceed the
> decreasing benefit of process scaling, and the scaling will come to a stop. Moore's
> law is a type of bubble. Like many bubbles, the existence of the bubble is easy to
> spot, and it isn't hard to tell that the bubble must burst at some point. Predicting
> exactly when it will burst is much harder.

The question is how many more improvements mass production lithography can go. Intel seems set on releasing 10 nm chips but 7 nm is not certain. If the benefits of lithography shrinks run out at the same time as the ability to shrink using lithography, I'd consider that good timing. Well at least as long as a replacement is queued up.
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TopicPosted ByDate
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                                                                            Intel vs. industry gapDoug S2013/10/03 08:59 AM
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                                                                  The decline of Intelanon2013/10/02 01:53 AM
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                                                                    The decline of IntelDoug S2013/10/06 09:11 PM
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                                                          Reducing Intel's lead with less than twice the spending??anon2013/10/01 07:07 PM
                                                            Reducing Intel's lead with less than twice the spending??mas2013/10/01 10:04 PM
                                                            Reducing Intel's lead with less than twice the spending??mas2013/10/01 10:06 PM
                                                              Reducing Intel's lead with less than twice the spending??mas2013/10/01 10:06 PM
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                                                  The decline of Intelmas2013/10/01 03:24 PM
                                                The decline of Intelanon2013/09/30 05:00 PM
                                          The decline of ItaniumDavid Kanter2013/09/29 10:19 PM
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                                              competitive marketDavid Kanter2013/09/30 07:39 AM
                                                competitive marketRichardC2013/09/30 08:08 AM
                                                  competitive marketDavid Kanter2013/09/30 11:08 AM
                                                    competitive marketRichardC2013/09/30 01:00 PM
                                                    competitive marketAnon2013/10/02 11:34 PM
                                              competitive marketDoug S2013/09/30 10:13 AM
                                                competitive marketRichardC2013/09/30 10:28 AM
                              The decline of ItaniumKevin G2013/09/27 09:07 AM
                              The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/27 10:30 AM
                                The decline of Itaniumsomeone2013/09/27 11:00 AM
                                  The decline of ItaniumTREZA2013/09/27 12:50 PM
                                    The decline of ItaniumMegol2013/09/27 11:52 PM
                                  The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/27 04:03 PM
                                    The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/28 02:22 AM
                                      The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/28 08:00 AM
                                        That's BSDavid Kanter2013/09/28 08:22 AM
                                        The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/28 04:15 PM
                                        The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 08:01 AM
                                          The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 08:06 AM
                                          The decline of ItaniumKevin G2013/09/29 10:06 AM
                                            Apple has 2-3 CPU design teamsDavid Kanter2013/09/29 10:39 AM
                                              The End of Moore's Lawhobold2013/09/30 02:00 AM
                                                Lower cost to process scaling can no longer be assumed.Mark Roulo2013/09/30 09:50 AM
                                                  Lower cost to process scaling can no longer be assumed.David Kanter2013/09/30 12:41 PM
                                                    Lower cost to process scaling can no longer be assumed.EduardoS2013/09/30 01:05 PM
                                                    Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Mark Roulo2013/09/30 02:15 PM
                                                      Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?mas2013/09/30 07:09 PM
                                                      Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Doug S2013/09/30 07:16 PM
                                                        Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?mas2013/09/30 08:05 PM
                                                          Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Doug S2013/10/01 11:28 AM
                                                            Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?mas2013/10/01 03:20 PM
                                                              Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Doug S2013/10/01 07:51 PM
                                                          Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Exophase2013/10/01 12:03 PM
                                                            Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?mas2013/10/01 03:17 PM
                                                              Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Exophase2013/10/01 09:18 PM
                                                                Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Doug S2013/10/02 09:18 AM
                                                                  Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Exophase2013/10/02 09:28 AM
                                                    Lower cost to process scaling can no longer be assumed.tarlinian2013/09/30 06:02 PM
                                                      Lower cost to process scaling can no longer be assumed.David Kanter2013/09/30 08:20 PM
                                                The End of Moore's LawGreg Gritton2013/10/01 08:11 AM
                                                  The End of Moore's LawKevin G2013/10/02 09:48 AM
                                    The decline of ItaniumFoo_2013/09/28 07:50 AM
                                  The decline of ItaniumRicardo B2013/09/28 03:17 PM
                                The decline of ItaniumDan Fay2013/09/27 01:51 PM
                                  The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/28 09:58 AM
                                    The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/28 10:39 AM
                                      The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/28 12:11 PM
                                        The decline of ItaniumDan Fay2013/09/28 02:38 PM
                                          The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/28 04:09 PM
                                            The decline of ItaniumDan Fay2013/09/28 04:59 PM
                                            The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 05:45 AM
                                              The decline of Itaniumnone2013/09/29 06:10 AM
                                                Bay Trail die costmas2013/09/29 06:31 AM
                                                  Bay Trail die costnone2013/09/29 06:40 AM
                                                    Bay Trail die costmas2013/09/29 07:11 AM
                                                      Bay Trail die costmas2013/09/29 07:16 AM
                                                      Bay Trail die costDoug S2013/09/29 10:13 AM
                                                        Bay Trail die costmas2013/09/29 10:59 AM
                                                  Bay Trail die costRichardC2013/10/01 05:20 AM
                                              The decline of Itaniumbakaneko2013/09/29 07:59 AM
                                                The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 08:16 AM
                                                The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 08:31 AM
                                                  The decline of Itaniumbakaneko2013/09/29 08:48 AM
                                                    The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 10:12 AM
                                                      The decline of Itaniumbakaneko2013/09/29 10:53 AM
                                                        The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 11:11 AM
                                                          The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/29 02:15 PM
                                                            The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 10:28 PM
                                                              The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/30 12:26 AM
                                                                The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/30 06:20 AM
                                                                  The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/30 07:04 PM
                                                                    The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/30 07:42 PM
                                                                      The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/30 10:32 PM
                                                                        The decline of ItaniumDavid Kanter2013/09/30 11:43 PM
                                                                          The decline of Itaniumanon2013/10/01 01:37 AM
                                                                            The decline of ItaniumDavid Kanter2013/10/01 08:17 AM
                                                                        The decline of Itaniummas2013/10/01 12:54 AM
                                                                          The decline of Itaniumanon2013/10/01 01:39 AM
                                                          The decline of Itaniumbakaneko2013/09/30 03:26 AM
                                                      The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/29 02:08 PM
                                                        The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/29 03:50 PM
                                                          The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 10:42 PM
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                                                            Restricted rules for initial process use at foundries?Paul A. Clayton2013/09/30 03:33 PM
                                                              Restricted rules for initial process use at foundries?Ricardo B2013/09/30 11:47 PM
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                                                $150 7" 800p Z2580 Dell Venue 7RichardC2013/10/03 07:51 AM
                                                  $150 7" 800p Z2580 Dell Venue 7mas2013/10/03 08:41 AM
                                                    $150 7" 800p Z2580 Dell Venue 7RichardC2013/10/03 09:56 AM
                                                    $150 7" 800p Z2580 Dell Venue 7Michael S2013/10/03 09:58 AM
                                                    $150 7" 800p Z2580 Dell Venue 7RichardC2013/10/03 10:07 AM
                                                      cheap would be in kindle fireRichardC2013/10/03 10:12 AM
                                                      $150 7" 800p Z2580 Dell Venue 7none2013/10/03 10:13 AM
                                                        Samsung Galaxy Tab battery lifeMichael S2013/10/03 01:18 PM
                                                          Samsung Galaxy Tab battery lifenone2013/10/03 02:17 PM
                                                            Samsung Galaxy Tab battery lifeExophase2013/10/03 02:42 PM
                                          The decline of Itaniumnone2013/09/29 01:15 AM
                                            The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/29 10:25 AM
                                              The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 11:23 AM
                                              Qualcomm?David Kanter2013/09/29 10:45 PM
                                                Qualcomm?none2013/09/30 12:36 AM
                                                  Qualcomm?Alberto2013/10/01 08:03 AM
                                                  Qualcomm?Alberto2013/10/01 12:03 PM
                                        A7 much faster at graphics than BayTrailThu2013/09/28 07:52 PM
                                          A7 much faster at graphics than BayTrailMichael S2013/09/29 01:24 AM
                                            A7 much faster at graphics than BayTrailMaynard Handley2013/09/29 08:41 AM
                                            A7 much faster at graphics than BayTrailbakaneko2013/09/29 09:44 AM
                                              A7 much faster at graphics than BayTrailLinus Torvalds2013/09/29 01:22 PM
                                                A7 much faster at graphics than BayTrailnone2013/09/29 02:37 PM
                              The decline of Itaniumanoanon2013/09/28 03:14 AM
                                The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/28 10:44 AM
                              The decline of ItaniumDavid Hess2013/09/28 08:31 AM
                            The decline of ItaniumKevin G2013/09/27 08:47 AM
                              The decline of ItaniumDavid Hess2013/10/05 05:35 PM
                                The decline of ItaniumKevin G2013/10/06 07:55 AM
                                  The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/10/06 08:13 AM
                            The decline of Itaniumbakaneko2013/09/27 09:10 AM
                              The decline of Itaniumsomeone2013/09/27 11:24 AM
                                The decline of ItaniumEduardoS2013/09/27 12:39 PM
                                  The decline of Itaniumsomeone2013/09/27 01:38 PM
                                    The decline of ItaniumEduardoS2013/09/27 02:49 PM
                                      The decline of Itaniumsomeone2013/09/28 08:20 AM
                                        The decline of ItaniumEduardoS2013/09/28 10:05 AM
                                  The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/27 08:22 PM
                                    The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/27 11:45 PM
                                      The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/28 02:08 AM
                                    The decline of ItaniumEduardoS2013/09/28 10:08 AM
                                      The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/28 04:17 PM
                                        The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/29 02:29 AM
                                The decline of Itaniumbakaneko2013/09/27 12:41 PM
                                Difficulty of measuring performance from ArchitecturePaul A. Clayton2013/09/27 02:23 PM
                                  Difficulty of measuring performance from Architecturesomeone2013/09/27 03:46 PM
                                    Difficulty of measuring performance from ArchitectureEduardoS2013/09/27 03:52 PM
                                      Difficulty of measuring performance from Architecturesomeone2013/09/27 04:10 PM
                                The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/27 04:09 PM
                                  The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/28 10:19 AM
                                why did you exclude EV7?Michael S2013/09/28 10:16 AM
                                  why did you exclude EV7?slacker2013/09/28 07:37 PM
                                    why did you exclude EV7?Michael S2013/09/28 11:50 PM
                                    Wasn't Athlon XP also copper interconnect? (NT)Paul A. Clayton2013/09/29 09:06 AM
                                      Wasn't Athlon XP also copper interconnect?slacker2013/09/29 02:17 PM
                                        Was the SPEC CPU2000 result CU or Al?Paul A. Clayton2013/09/30 04:14 PM
                                          Was the SPEC CPU2000 result CU or Al?slacker2013/10/01 01:48 AM
                              The decline of ItaniumRicardo B2013/09/28 03:23 PM
                                The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/29 02:46 AM
                          The decline of ItaniumMegol2013/09/27 10:02 AM
                            The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/28 12:31 PM
            Charlie re: Apple and ARMSimon Farnsworth2013/09/25 03:06 AM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 03:22 AM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMSimon Farnsworth2013/09/25 04:32 AM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 04:59 AM
                    Charlie re: Apple and ARMDavid Kanter2013/09/25 12:26 PM
                      Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 04:32 PM
                  future of eDRAMbakaneko2013/09/25 05:58 AM
                    future of eDRAManon2013/09/25 06:43 AM
                      future of eDRAMbakaneko2013/09/25 08:00 AM
                        future of eDRAManon2013/09/25 08:24 AM
                          future of eDRAMbakaneko2013/09/25 10:46 AM
                            future of eDRAManon2013/09/25 04:39 PM
                              future of eDRAMbakaneko2013/09/26 09:51 AM
                                future of eDRAMDavid Kanter2013/09/28 09:29 AM
                              future of eDRAMbakaneko2013/09/27 04:23 AM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARMKevin G2013/09/25 06:18 AM
                    Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 07:02 AM
                      Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/25 09:23 AM
                        Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 09:59 AM
                        Charlie re: Apple and ARMNiels Jørgen Kruse2013/09/25 10:59 AM
                          Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/25 11:46 AM
                        Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/25 01:15 PM
                          POWER8 has 8 threads per coreMark Roulo2013/09/25 03:18 PM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMsomeone2013/09/25 07:07 AM
                  Thanks, very informative (NT)anon2013/09/25 07:11 AM
                  Keep in mind IBM has eDRAM elsewhere than POWER (NT)anon2013/09/25 10:03 AM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARMRichardC2013/09/25 06:12 AM
              It isn't just memory controllersMark Roulo2013/09/25 08:09 AM
        Charlie re: Apple and ARMFoo_2013/09/23 11:52 PM
    Charlie re: Apple and ARMDrazick2013/09/23 09:29 AM
    Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/23 10:55 AM
      Charlie re: Apple and ARMDrazick2013/09/23 11:00 AM
      Charlie re: Apple and ARMMichael S2013/09/23 03:01 PM
      Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/23 04:31 PM
        Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/23 06:34 PM
    Charlie re: Apple and ARMAlberto2013/09/24 12:11 PM
      Charlie re: Apple and ARMWilco2013/09/24 05:17 PM
        Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/24 07:44 PM
          Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 12:56 AM
            Charlie re: Apple and ARMnone2013/09/25 01:50 AM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 02:06 AM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARMWilco2013/09/25 02:14 AM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 02:28 AM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARMMichael S2013/09/25 03:24 AM
                    Charlie re: Apple and ARMnone2013/09/25 03:55 AM
                    Charlie re: Apple and ARMEduardoS2013/09/25 01:07 PM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/25 09:01 AM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMAlberto2013/09/25 12:12 PM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/25 01:23 PM
          Charlie re: Apple and ARMWilco2013/09/25 01:45 AM
            Charlie re: Apple and ARMLinus Torvalds2013/09/25 04:49 PM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARMMichael S2013/09/26 09:52 AM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/26 10:51 AM
                  Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsMark Roulo2013/09/26 12:04 PM
                    Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsDoug S2013/09/26 01:07 PM
                      Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsMark Roulo2013/09/26 02:06 PM
                        Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsDoug S2013/09/26 05:21 PM
                          Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsrwessel2013/09/26 05:44 PM
                          Animated GIF seems slow on iPadssysanon2013/09/27 03:33 PM
                            Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsDoug S2013/09/27 05:29 PM
                              Animated GIF seems slow on iPadssysanon2013/09/27 07:36 PM
                                Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsDoug S2013/09/27 08:07 PM
                                  Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsanonymou52013/09/27 11:58 PM
                              Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsJ.Random Webmasta2013/09/28 12:11 AM
                        Slow with Core i7 920Jouni Osmala2013/09/26 10:25 PM
                    Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsNoSpammer2013/09/27 12:13 AM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/26 12:18 PM
                    Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/26 01:19 PM
                      Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/26 01:35 PM
                      Charlie re: Apple and ARMJohn Poole2013/09/26 02:11 PM
                        Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/26 05:31 PM
                          Charlie re: Apple and ARMJohn Poole2013/09/27 10:02 PM
                      Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)David W2013/09/27 12:47 AM
                        Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)David Kanter2013/09/28 09:09 AM
                          Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)David Hess2013/09/28 09:21 AM
                            Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Michael S2013/09/28 10:00 AM
                              Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)David Hess2013/09/28 10:27 AM
                              Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)bakaneko2013/09/28 11:11 AM
                                Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Michael S2013/09/28 11:50 AM
                                  Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)EduardoS2013/09/28 12:50 PM
                                    Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Michael S2013/09/28 01:05 PM
                                  Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Doug S2013/09/28 04:15 PM
                                    Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)David Hess2013/09/28 07:03 PM
                                      Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Gabriele Svelto2013/09/30 03:23 AM
                                        Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Jukka Larja2013/09/30 06:23 AM
                                          Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Doug S2013/09/30 07:19 PM
                                            Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Jukka Larja2013/10/01 03:55 AM
                                              Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Rob Thorpe2013/10/01 07:26 AM
                                                Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Michael S2013/10/01 12:53 PM
                                                  Adobe Acrobat reader start up timeMichael S2013/10/02 12:19 AM
                                                    Adobe Acrobat reader start up timebdcrazy2013/10/11 05:28 AM
                          Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultRob Thorpe2013/10/01 07:14 AM
                            Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultj2013/10/01 10:12 AM
                              There are two of us (or three)Mark Roulo2013/10/01 12:15 PM
                              Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultRob Thorpe2013/10/01 03:05 PM
                            Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultSymmetry2013/10/02 11:51 AM
                              Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultDoug S2013/10/02 06:44 PM
                                Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultrwessel2013/10/02 10:21 PM
                                  Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultClemens Ladisch2013/10/02 11:20 PM
                                    Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultrwessel2013/10/03 12:12 AM
                                  Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultSymmetry2013/10/03 05:19 AM
                                Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultGabriele Svelto2013/10/03 01:05 AM
                                  Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultDoug S2013/10/03 09:15 AM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARMJohn Poole2013/09/26 01:59 PM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/26 02:53 PM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARMJohn Poole2013/10/01 09:55 PM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMLinus Torvalds2013/09/26 07:15 PM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARMJohn Poole2013/10/01 09:45 PM
                    Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/10/02 09:14 AM
                      Charlie re: Apple and ARMJohn Poole2013/10/02 09:03 PM
                        Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/10/02 11:00 PM
                        Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/10/03 09:08 AM
        Charlie re: Apple and ARMAlberto2013/09/25 12:50 PM
    Charlie re: Apple and ARMRonald Maas2013/09/24 09:39 PM
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How do you spell avocado?