The decline of Intel

By: David Kanter (dkanter.delete@this.realworldtech.com), October 5, 2013 12:41 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Purana Archer (ancientarcher.delete@this.gmail.com) on October 4, 2013 6:38 am wrote:
> David Kanter (dkanter.delete@this.realworldtech.com) on October 2, 2013 10:45 am wrote:
> > > I was not talking about Samsung's total capex, just the capex on Logic which is expected to be around
> > > US$7-8bn. Samsung's total capex for 2013 is expected to come at US$23bn (far far higher than that
> > > Intel) includes its capex on DRAM, NAND, consumer electronics and displays. On just the logic capex,
> > > the point I was making was that this is the first time in 25 years, since the start of the microprocessor
> > > industry really, that a competitor in Logic is able to match Intel's capex. That has huge implications.
> > > Assuming the other guys ,like Samsung, TSMC and GloFo are not entirely stupid and don't literally
> > > piss away the money, you are going to see a narrowing of the tech lead that Intel enjoys today -
> > > which is the direct result of its outsized capex spend of previous years.
> >
> > I don't know what numbers you are using, but they sound wrong:
> > http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1280675
> >
> > I don't care about samsung's spending on displays or CE. That's not relevant to logic.
> >
> > Also, capex != R&D.
> >
> sure, TSMC said that along with Alliance partners, it spends much more than Intel on R&D.
>
> "Unlike Intel and Samsung Electronics' vertical integration, TSMC is working closely with EDA, IP, software
> IP, systems software and design services providers – which the foundry has dubbed a "Grand Alliance."
> The TSMC-led alliance allocated a combined US$13.56 billion to R&D in 2012, the sources estimated."
> http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20131003PD215.html
>
> The Common Platform (Samsung, IBM and GloFo) also spend as much, I would guess.

None of that is related to actual process technology development. Moreover, if you've ever talked with Synopsys, you'd know that they do far more cutting edge work with Intel than anyone else because Intel is far ahead of everyone else on process.

In fact, Intel uses that to get advantageous pricing from tools vendors, because the vendors are effectively learning how to work with things like FinFETs.

Also, digitimes isn't a particularly reliable source, it's basically a mouthpiece for Taiwanese companies.

> > > Well, Intel introduced HKMG in 2007, Samsung in 2012 and
> > > TSMC in 2013. Finfet - Intel introduced in 2011 and
> > > TSMC and Samsung in 2014.
> >
> > When making these sorts of comparisons, you should be very careful. Intel starts shipping products
> > in massive volumes...typically the first production at TSMC is FPGAs, and it takes a while for
> > them to really reach the same level of maturity as Intel. Ditto for any foundry really.
> >
> > Samsung and TSMC have committed to early 2014 customer tape-outs. That means actual production in 2015.
> >
> > Just think about it for a minute. TSMC and Samsung aren't going to even ship any 20nm
> > parts in production this year, because their yields are terrible according to Digitimes.
> > Why would you believe that in ~1 year they can fix the 20nm problems, ramp FinFETs and
> > handle the yield issues there, and then ramp volume? That isn't plausible.
> >
> > In my mind, the foundries have a huge credibility problem about any claims they make because they
> > consistently fail to deliver, and many of their claims are based on non-comparable timelines.
> >
>
> you are right. 14/16nm finfet is going be done only in 2015.

So you believe we will see 16nm FinFET SoCs (not FPGAs) in high volume in 2015?

>Remember however that the foundries will be
> using the same front end as the 20nm scalar, so the 2 node jump in 2 years, doesn't >look too ambitious.

You are getting FEOL and BEOL confused. BEOL is metallization, FEOL is the devices. 16nm uses a 20nm metal stack, which is why the density doesn't improve.

Moreover, nobody in their right mind would ever consider TSMC 28nm --> 16nm to be two nodes, that's just BS marketing from TSMC. Just look at the improvement in terms of performance and density. The density of 16nm is one node better than 28nm...which was mentioned earlier in this thread.

> > >So, the gap is already narrowing.
> >
> > I will believe it when I see actual evidence.
> >
> > >My point is, if you don't assume the others are
> > > chipmunks, they will invest the capex spend relatively wisely,
> >
> > Like spending on gate-first HKMG? Or FD-SOI? etc. etc.
> >
> > >then there is no way that Intel can maintain
> > > that 3-4 years edge in tech when spending the same or less.
> > > It is mathematical really, the edge is a function
> > > of the cumulative capex and r&d spend. when the spend gap narrows, the tech difference >should also narrow.
> >
> > First of all, Intel is working under very different constraints than Samsung or TSMC. Foundries need
> > to support an ecosystem and are limited by that. Moving to FinFETs is hard because all your IP needs
> > to change. OTOH, Intel basically controls the IP development and can really co-optimize.
> >
> > I agree you have a valid point that as TSMC or Samsung becomes larger, they have
> > the potential to narrow the gap. But that doesn't seem to be happening.
> >
>
> The gap is narrowing.

You have no data to support his claim and moreover, there is no indication that the foundries are actually catching up to Intel...except from foundry marketing departments, who cannot be trusted.

>Just give some time for the r&d and capex dollars that the ARM camp has invested
> to flow through.

So why don't you tell me when you expect TSMC/Samsung to catch up with Intel on contacted gate pitch, transistor performance, etc.?

Moreover, you still fail to understand that 'the ARM camp' is a bunch of folks competing with each other and very few actually do much on process tech. When we talk about manufacturing, the only companies that are relevant are TSMC, Samsung, GF, and IBM. It doesn't matter how much money Rockchip or Mediatek makes.

This is exactly like the people who talk about "ARM vs. Intel" without realizing that those two companies are not really competitors (well perhaps with Quark they are, but they aren't competitors in any meaningful sense).

>After all, as I said, if you earn more, you can invest more and thereby stay ahead and
> earn more.

Except that the foundries have to 'catch up' before they can 'get ahead'. Also, some of them have yet to master that whole 'earn money' trick.

>Intel benefited from this virtuous cycle in x86, thereby crushing AMD. The unfortunate thing
> for Intel is that the ARM guys got money from somewhere else that was not dominated by >Intel.

Yet again...it doesn't matter how much money Apple makes on iPhones if they aren't spending anything on process technology development. Please stop making specious arguments.

> Sooner or
> later they will invest the money in capex and r&d to narrow the tech gap and maybe >overtake Intel.
>That
> will happen irrespective.

Tell me when. Do you think it's 2 years? 4 years? 7 years?

David
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TopicPosted ByDate
Charlie re: Apple and ARMjose2013/09/23 04:43 AM
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        Charlie re: Apple and ARMGabriele Svelto2013/09/23 10:24 AM
          Charlie re: Apple and ARMPatrick Chase2013/09/23 10:40 AM
        Charlie re: Apple and ARMsomeone2013/09/23 12:42 PM
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        Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/23 10:44 AM
        Charlie re: Apple and ARMMichael S2013/09/23 11:02 AM
          Charlie re: Apple and ARMsomeone2013/09/23 12:57 PM
            Charlie re: Apple and ARMMichael S2013/09/23 03:56 PM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARMRicardo B2013/09/24 12:32 AM
          Charlie re: Apple and ARMMartin Høyer Kristiansen2013/09/23 01:30 PM
      Charlie re: Apple and ARMNiels Jørgen Kruse2013/09/23 11:09 AM
        Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/23 05:09 PM
      Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/23 12:03 PM
        Charlie re: Apple and ARMMichael S2013/09/23 04:27 PM
          Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/23 04:39 PM
          Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/23 05:22 PM
            Charlie re: Apple and ARMsomeone2013/09/24 08:13 AM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/24 10:24 AM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMsomeone2013/09/24 10:41 AM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/24 05:54 PM
                    The decline of ItaniumPaul A. Clayton2013/09/24 09:52 PM
                      The decline of ItaniumKira2013/09/25 06:07 AM
                        The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/25 06:15 AM
                          The decline of ItaniumKira2013/09/25 06:21 AM
                            Does Secure64 sell hardware?Paul A. Clayton2013/09/25 08:18 AM
                              Does Secure64 sell hardware?Kira2013/09/25 09:18 AM
                                Turns out they do rx2800 now. (NT)Kira2013/09/25 09:20 AM
                                Thanks again. RWT has some knowledgeable posters! (NT)Paul A. Clayton2013/09/25 01:38 PM
                      The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/25 09:34 AM
                        The decline of ItaniumDavid Hess2013/09/25 05:10 PM
                          The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/25 08:15 PM
                            The decline of ItaniumDavid Hess2013/09/27 08:11 AM
                              The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/27 05:37 PM
                                The decline of ItaniumDavid Hess2013/09/28 09:43 AM
                        The decline of Itaniumbakaneko2013/09/26 03:06 PM
                          The decline of ItaniumGabriele Svelto2013/09/26 03:35 PM
                            The decline of ItaniumKira2013/09/26 04:18 PM
                              The decline of Itaniumsomeone2013/09/27 08:08 AM
                                The decline of ItaniumDavid Hess2013/09/27 08:20 AM
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                                    The decline of ItaniumLinus Torvalds2013/09/27 12:00 PM
                                      i960someone2013/09/27 01:06 PM
                                        i960Michael S2013/09/28 09:47 AM
                                          i960JS2013/09/29 02:43 AM
                                    The decline of ItaniumDavid Hess2013/09/28 10:00 AM
                                      The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/28 10:51 AM
                                        The decline of ItaniumDavid Hess2013/09/28 11:59 AM
                                          The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/28 12:43 PM
                                            The decline of ItaniumDavid Hess2013/09/28 08:53 PM
                                        The decline of Itaniumgallier22013/09/30 01:06 AM
                                          x86 MCUsMichael S2013/09/30 02:13 AM
                                The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/27 09:52 AM
                                  The decline of Itaniumsomeone2013/09/27 11:29 AM
                                The decline of ItaniumKira2013/09/27 10:19 AM
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                          The decline of ItaniumDavid Hess2013/09/27 08:06 AM
                            The decline of Itaniumsomeone2013/09/27 08:25 AM
                              The decline of ItaniumLinus Torvalds2013/09/27 10:07 AM
                                The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/27 06:09 PM
                                  The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/27 07:07 PM
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                                    Laptop DesignDavid Hess2013/09/28 10:58 AM
                                      Laptop DesignBrett2013/09/28 03:14 PM
                                        Laptop DesignDavid Hess2013/09/28 08:35 PM
                                        Laptop Designanon2013/09/30 02:11 AM
                                          Laptop DesignBrett2013/09/30 06:02 PM
                                      Laptop DesignRichardC2013/09/28 05:14 PM
                                        Laptop DesignDavid Hess2013/09/28 08:40 PM
                                          Laptop DesignMichael S2013/09/29 03:21 AM
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                                      The decline of ItaniumRichardC2013/09/29 05:52 AM
                                      PS2Konrad Schwarz2013/09/30 12:53 AM
                                        PS2none2013/09/30 01:19 AM
                                        PS2Doug S2013/09/30 11:09 AM
                                        PS2sysanon2013/09/30 05:09 PM
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                                      Apple's innovationsRichardC2013/09/29 07:00 AM
                                      The decline of ItaniumBrett2013/09/29 02:56 PM
                                        The decline of ItaniumRichardC2013/09/29 06:00 PM
                                          Apple's innovationsBrett2013/10/10 08:20 PM
                                The decline of ItaniumRichardC2013/09/28 05:44 AM
                                  The decline of ItaniumRicardo B2013/09/28 05:23 PM
                                    The decline of ItaniumRichardC2013/09/29 04:51 AM
                                      The decline of ItaniumRicardo B2013/09/29 08:27 AM
                                        The decline of ItaniumRichardC2013/09/29 12:28 PM
                                          The decline of ItaniumRicardo B2013/09/29 04:00 PM
                                            The decline of ItaniumRichardC2013/09/29 06:07 PM
                                            The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/30 07:04 AM
                                              The decline of IntelRichardC2013/09/30 07:19 AM
                                                The decline of IntelKevin G2013/09/30 10:53 AM
                                                  The decline of IntelRichardC2013/09/30 11:13 AM
                                                    The decline of IntelKevin G2013/10/02 09:11 AM
                                                      The decline of Inteltarlinian2013/10/02 09:27 AM
                                                        The decline of IntelKevin G2013/10/04 10:24 AM
                                                          450mm and EUV insertionDavid Kanter2013/10/04 11:24 AM
                                                            450mm and EUV insertiontarlinian2013/10/04 12:23 PM
                                                              450mm and EUV insertionAnonym2013/10/04 11:39 PM
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                                                                        450mm and EUV insertiontarlinian2013/10/05 04:21 PM
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                                                            450mm and EUV insertionKevin G2013/10/05 05:50 AM
                                                  The decline of IntelBrett2013/09/30 06:11 PM
                                                    The decline of IntelPurana Archer2013/10/01 05:52 AM
                                                      The decline of Intelanon2013/10/01 06:27 AM
                                                        The decline of IntelPurana Archer2013/10/01 07:13 AM
                                                          The decline of Intelmas2013/10/01 04:46 PM
                                                            The decline of IntelPurana Archer2013/10/02 12:26 AM
                                                              The decline of Intelanon2013/10/02 02:05 AM
                                                                The decline of Intelnone2013/10/02 02:18 AM
                                                                  The decline of IntelPurana Archer2013/10/02 02:35 AM
                                                                    The decline of Intelanon2013/10/02 02:57 AM
                                                                      The decline of IntelDoug S2013/10/02 10:08 AM
                                                                        The decline of Intelmas2013/10/02 10:40 AM
                                                                          The decline of IntelDoug S2013/10/02 07:32 PM
                                                                            The decline of IntelDavid Kanter2013/10/02 10:17 PM
                                                                      Intel vs. industry gapDavid Kanter2013/10/02 04:17 PM
                                                                        Intel vs. industry gapMaynard Handley2013/10/02 05:59 PM
                                                                          Intel vs. industry gaptarlinian2013/10/02 06:13 PM
                                                                            Intel vs. industry gapAnon2013/10/03 12:15 AM
                                                                              Intel vs. industry gaptarlinian2013/10/03 09:01 AM
                                                                          Intel vs. industry gapDavid Kanter2013/10/02 10:10 PM
                                                                            Intel vs. industry gapDoug S2013/10/03 09:59 AM
                                                                              Intel vs. industry gapanon2013/10/03 04:12 PM
                                                                                Intel vs. industry gapDoug S2013/10/03 04:56 PM
                                                                                  Intel vs. industry gapanon2013/10/03 05:48 PM
                                                                                  Intel vs. industry gapanonymou52013/10/03 05:59 PM
                                                                                    Intel vs. industry gapmas2013/10/04 01:10 AM
                                                                    The decline of IntelKlimax2013/10/02 03:46 AM
                                                                  The decline of Intelanon2013/10/02 02:53 AM
                                                              The decline of Inteltarlinian2013/10/02 09:24 AM
                                                      The decline of IntelDavid Kanter2013/10/01 09:06 AM
                                                        The decline of IntelPurana Archer2013/10/02 12:09 AM
                                                          The decline of Inteltarlinian2013/10/02 08:58 AM
                                                          The decline of IntelDavid Kanter2013/10/02 10:45 AM
                                                            The decline of IntelPurana Archer2013/10/04 06:38 AM
                                                              The decline of IntelDavid Kanter2013/10/05 12:41 AM
                                                                The decline of IntelKevin G2013/10/05 08:14 AM
                                                                  The decline of IntelNiels Jørgen Kruse2013/10/05 12:49 PM
                                                                    The decline of IntelKevin G2013/10/06 08:45 AM
                                                                    The decline of IntelDoug S2013/10/06 10:11 PM
                                                                      The decline of IntelNiels Jørgen Kruse2013/10/07 06:14 AM
                                                                        The decline of IntelDoug S2013/10/07 04:36 PM
                                                           Tool Reuse, CAPEX EfficiencyAnonym2013/10/02 01:37 PM
                                                             Tool Reuse, CAPEX Efficiencytarlinian2013/10/02 03:55 PM
                                                      capex spendingDoug S2013/10/01 12:06 PM
                                                        Reducing Intel's lead with less than twice the spending??Paul A. Clayton2013/10/01 05:27 PM
                                                          Reducing Intel's lead with less than twice the spending??anon2013/10/01 08:07 PM
                                                            Reducing Intel's lead with less than twice the spending??mas2013/10/01 11:04 PM
                                                            Reducing Intel's lead with less than twice the spending??mas2013/10/01 11:06 PM
                                                              Reducing Intel's lead with less than twice the spending??mas2013/10/01 11:06 PM
                                                  Intel fabs on 22nmAlberto2013/10/01 03:23 AM
                                                  The decline of Intelmas2013/10/01 04:24 PM
                                                The decline of Intelanon2013/09/30 06:00 PM
                                          The decline of ItaniumDavid Kanter2013/09/29 11:19 PM
                                            competitive marketRichardC2013/09/30 06:33 AM
                                              competitive marketDavid Kanter2013/09/30 08:39 AM
                                                competitive marketRichardC2013/09/30 09:08 AM
                                                  competitive marketDavid Kanter2013/09/30 12:08 PM
                                                    competitive marketRichardC2013/09/30 02:00 PM
                                                    competitive marketAnon2013/10/03 12:34 AM
                                              competitive marketDoug S2013/09/30 11:13 AM
                                                competitive marketRichardC2013/09/30 11:28 AM
                              The decline of ItaniumKevin G2013/09/27 10:07 AM
                              The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/27 11:30 AM
                                The decline of Itaniumsomeone2013/09/27 12:00 PM
                                  The decline of ItaniumTREZA2013/09/27 01:50 PM
                                    The decline of ItaniumMegol2013/09/28 12:52 AM
                                  The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/27 05:03 PM
                                    The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/28 03:22 AM
                                      The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/28 09:00 AM
                                        That's BSDavid Kanter2013/09/28 09:22 AM
                                        The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/28 05:15 PM
                                        The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 09:01 AM
                                          The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 09:06 AM
                                          The decline of ItaniumKevin G2013/09/29 11:06 AM
                                            Apple has 2-3 CPU design teamsDavid Kanter2013/09/29 11:39 AM
                                              The End of Moore's Lawhobold2013/09/30 03:00 AM
                                                Lower cost to process scaling can no longer be assumed.Mark Roulo2013/09/30 10:50 AM
                                                  Lower cost to process scaling can no longer be assumed.David Kanter2013/09/30 01:41 PM
                                                    Lower cost to process scaling can no longer be assumed.EduardoS2013/09/30 02:05 PM
                                                    Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Mark Roulo2013/09/30 03:15 PM
                                                      Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?mas2013/09/30 08:09 PM
                                                      Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Doug S2013/09/30 08:16 PM
                                                        Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?mas2013/09/30 09:05 PM
                                                          Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Doug S2013/10/01 12:28 PM
                                                            Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?mas2013/10/01 04:20 PM
                                                              Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Doug S2013/10/01 08:51 PM
                                                          Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Exophase2013/10/01 01:03 PM
                                                            Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?mas2013/10/01 04:17 PM
                                                              Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Exophase2013/10/01 10:18 PM
                                                                Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Doug S2013/10/02 10:18 AM
                                                                  Shouldn't the customers have *SOME* reason to move to the new process?Exophase2013/10/02 10:28 AM
                                                    Lower cost to process scaling can no longer be assumed.tarlinian2013/09/30 07:02 PM
                                                      Lower cost to process scaling can no longer be assumed.David Kanter2013/09/30 09:20 PM
                                                The End of Moore's LawGreg Gritton2013/10/01 09:11 AM
                                                  The End of Moore's LawKevin G2013/10/02 10:48 AM
                                    The decline of ItaniumFoo_2013/09/28 08:50 AM
                                  The decline of ItaniumRicardo B2013/09/28 04:17 PM
                                The decline of ItaniumDan Fay2013/09/27 02:51 PM
                                  The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/28 10:58 AM
                                    The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/28 11:39 AM
                                      The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/28 01:11 PM
                                        The decline of ItaniumDan Fay2013/09/28 03:38 PM
                                          The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/28 05:09 PM
                                            The decline of ItaniumDan Fay2013/09/28 05:59 PM
                                            The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 06:45 AM
                                              The decline of Itaniumnone2013/09/29 07:10 AM
                                                Bay Trail die costmas2013/09/29 07:31 AM
                                                  Bay Trail die costnone2013/09/29 07:40 AM
                                                    Bay Trail die costmas2013/09/29 08:11 AM
                                                      Bay Trail die costmas2013/09/29 08:16 AM
                                                      Bay Trail die costDoug S2013/09/29 11:13 AM
                                                        Bay Trail die costmas2013/09/29 11:59 AM
                                                  Bay Trail die costRichardC2013/10/01 06:20 AM
                                              The decline of Itaniumbakaneko2013/09/29 08:59 AM
                                                The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 09:16 AM
                                                The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 09:31 AM
                                                  The decline of Itaniumbakaneko2013/09/29 09:48 AM
                                                    The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 11:12 AM
                                                      The decline of Itaniumbakaneko2013/09/29 11:53 AM
                                                        The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 12:11 PM
                                                          The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/29 03:15 PM
                                                            The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 11:28 PM
                                                              The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/30 01:26 AM
                                                                The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/30 07:20 AM
                                                                  The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/30 08:04 PM
                                                                    The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/30 08:42 PM
                                                                      The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/30 11:32 PM
                                                                        The decline of ItaniumDavid Kanter2013/10/01 12:43 AM
                                                                          The decline of Itaniumanon2013/10/01 02:37 AM
                                                                            The decline of ItaniumDavid Kanter2013/10/01 09:17 AM
                                                                        The decline of Itaniummas2013/10/01 01:54 AM
                                                                          The decline of Itaniumanon2013/10/01 02:39 AM
                                                          The decline of Itaniumbakaneko2013/09/30 04:26 AM
                                                      The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/29 03:08 PM
                                                        The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/29 04:50 PM
                                                          The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 11:42 PM
                                                          Semiconductor realitiesDavid Kanter2013/09/30 11:30 AM
                                                            Restricted rules for initial process use at foundries?Paul A. Clayton2013/09/30 04:33 PM
                                                              Restricted rules for initial process use at foundries?Ricardo B2013/10/01 12:47 AM
                                              $150 7" 800p Z2580 Dell Venue 7mas2013/10/02 12:10 PM
                                                $150 7" 800p Z2580 Dell Venue 7RichardC2013/10/03 08:51 AM
                                                  $150 7" 800p Z2580 Dell Venue 7mas2013/10/03 09:41 AM
                                                    $150 7" 800p Z2580 Dell Venue 7RichardC2013/10/03 10:56 AM
                                                    $150 7" 800p Z2580 Dell Venue 7Michael S2013/10/03 10:58 AM
                                                    $150 7" 800p Z2580 Dell Venue 7RichardC2013/10/03 11:07 AM
                                                      cheap would be in kindle fireRichardC2013/10/03 11:12 AM
                                                      $150 7" 800p Z2580 Dell Venue 7none2013/10/03 11:13 AM
                                                        Samsung Galaxy Tab battery lifeMichael S2013/10/03 02:18 PM
                                                          Samsung Galaxy Tab battery lifenone2013/10/03 03:17 PM
                                                            Samsung Galaxy Tab battery lifeExophase2013/10/03 03:42 PM
                                          The decline of Itaniumnone2013/09/29 02:15 AM
                                            The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/29 11:25 AM
                                              The decline of Itaniummas2013/09/29 12:23 PM
                                              Qualcomm?David Kanter2013/09/29 11:45 PM
                                                Qualcomm?none2013/09/30 01:36 AM
                                                  Qualcomm?Alberto2013/10/01 09:03 AM
                                                  Qualcomm?Alberto2013/10/01 01:03 PM
                                        A7 much faster at graphics than BayTrailThu2013/09/28 08:52 PM
                                          A7 much faster at graphics than BayTrailMichael S2013/09/29 02:24 AM
                                            A7 much faster at graphics than BayTrailMaynard Handley2013/09/29 09:41 AM
                                            A7 much faster at graphics than BayTrailbakaneko2013/09/29 10:44 AM
                                              A7 much faster at graphics than BayTrailLinus Torvalds2013/09/29 02:22 PM
                                                A7 much faster at graphics than BayTrailnone2013/09/29 03:37 PM
                              The decline of Itaniumanoanon2013/09/28 04:14 AM
                                The decline of ItaniumDoug S2013/09/28 11:44 AM
                              The decline of ItaniumDavid Hess2013/09/28 09:31 AM
                            The decline of ItaniumKevin G2013/09/27 09:47 AM
                              The decline of ItaniumDavid Hess2013/10/05 06:35 PM
                                The decline of ItaniumKevin G2013/10/06 08:55 AM
                                  The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/10/06 09:13 AM
                            The decline of Itaniumbakaneko2013/09/27 10:10 AM
                              The decline of Itaniumsomeone2013/09/27 12:24 PM
                                The decline of ItaniumEduardoS2013/09/27 01:39 PM
                                  The decline of Itaniumsomeone2013/09/27 02:38 PM
                                    The decline of ItaniumEduardoS2013/09/27 03:49 PM
                                      The decline of Itaniumsomeone2013/09/28 09:20 AM
                                        The decline of ItaniumEduardoS2013/09/28 11:05 AM
                                  The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/27 09:22 PM
                                    The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/28 12:45 AM
                                      The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/28 03:08 AM
                                    The decline of ItaniumEduardoS2013/09/28 11:08 AM
                                      The decline of Itaniumanon2013/09/28 05:17 PM
                                        The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/29 03:29 AM
                                The decline of Itaniumbakaneko2013/09/27 01:41 PM
                                Difficulty of measuring performance from ArchitecturePaul A. Clayton2013/09/27 03:23 PM
                                  Difficulty of measuring performance from Architecturesomeone2013/09/27 04:46 PM
                                    Difficulty of measuring performance from ArchitectureEduardoS2013/09/27 04:52 PM
                                      Difficulty of measuring performance from Architecturesomeone2013/09/27 05:10 PM
                                The decline of ItaniumMaynard Handley2013/09/27 05:09 PM
                                  The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/28 11:19 AM
                                why did you exclude EV7?Michael S2013/09/28 11:16 AM
                                  why did you exclude EV7?slacker2013/09/28 08:37 PM
                                    why did you exclude EV7?Michael S2013/09/29 12:50 AM
                                    Wasn't Athlon XP also copper interconnect? (NT)Paul A. Clayton2013/09/29 10:06 AM
                                      Wasn't Athlon XP also copper interconnect?slacker2013/09/29 03:17 PM
                                        Was the SPEC CPU2000 result CU or Al?Paul A. Clayton2013/09/30 05:14 PM
                                          Was the SPEC CPU2000 result CU or Al?slacker2013/10/01 02:48 AM
                              The decline of ItaniumRicardo B2013/09/28 04:23 PM
                                The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/29 03:46 AM
                          The decline of ItaniumMegol2013/09/27 11:02 AM
                            The decline of ItaniumMichael S2013/09/28 01:31 PM
            Charlie re: Apple and ARMSimon Farnsworth2013/09/25 04:06 AM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 04:22 AM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMSimon Farnsworth2013/09/25 05:32 AM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 05:59 AM
                    Charlie re: Apple and ARMDavid Kanter2013/09/25 01:26 PM
                      Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 05:32 PM
                  future of eDRAMbakaneko2013/09/25 06:58 AM
                    future of eDRAManon2013/09/25 07:43 AM
                      future of eDRAMbakaneko2013/09/25 09:00 AM
                        future of eDRAManon2013/09/25 09:24 AM
                          future of eDRAMbakaneko2013/09/25 11:46 AM
                            future of eDRAManon2013/09/25 05:39 PM
                              future of eDRAMbakaneko2013/09/26 10:51 AM
                                future of eDRAMDavid Kanter2013/09/28 10:29 AM
                              future of eDRAMbakaneko2013/09/27 05:23 AM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARMKevin G2013/09/25 07:18 AM
                    Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 08:02 AM
                      Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/25 10:23 AM
                        Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 10:59 AM
                        Charlie re: Apple and ARMNiels Jørgen Kruse2013/09/25 11:59 AM
                          Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/25 12:46 PM
                        Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/25 02:15 PM
                          POWER8 has 8 threads per coreMark Roulo2013/09/25 04:18 PM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMsomeone2013/09/25 08:07 AM
                  Thanks, very informative (NT)anon2013/09/25 08:11 AM
                  Keep in mind IBM has eDRAM elsewhere than POWER (NT)anon2013/09/25 11:03 AM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARMRichardC2013/09/25 07:12 AM
              It isn't just memory controllersMark Roulo2013/09/25 09:09 AM
        Charlie re: Apple and ARMFoo_2013/09/24 12:52 AM
    Charlie re: Apple and ARMDrazick2013/09/23 10:29 AM
    Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/23 11:55 AM
      Charlie re: Apple and ARMDrazick2013/09/23 12:00 PM
      Charlie re: Apple and ARMMichael S2013/09/23 04:01 PM
      Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/23 05:31 PM
        Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/23 07:34 PM
    Charlie re: Apple and ARMAlberto2013/09/24 01:11 PM
      Charlie re: Apple and ARMWilco2013/09/24 06:17 PM
        Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/24 08:44 PM
          Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 01:56 AM
            Charlie re: Apple and ARMnone2013/09/25 02:50 AM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 03:06 AM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARMWilco2013/09/25 03:14 AM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/09/25 03:28 AM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARMMichael S2013/09/25 04:24 AM
                    Charlie re: Apple and ARMnone2013/09/25 04:55 AM
                    Charlie re: Apple and ARMEduardoS2013/09/25 02:07 PM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/25 10:01 AM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMAlberto2013/09/25 01:12 PM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/25 02:23 PM
          Charlie re: Apple and ARMWilco2013/09/25 02:45 AM
            Charlie re: Apple and ARMLinus Torvalds2013/09/25 05:49 PM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARMMichael S2013/09/26 10:52 AM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/26 11:51 AM
                  Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsMark Roulo2013/09/26 01:04 PM
                    Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsDoug S2013/09/26 02:07 PM
                      Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsMark Roulo2013/09/26 03:06 PM
                        Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsDoug S2013/09/26 06:21 PM
                          Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsrwessel2013/09/26 06:44 PM
                          Animated GIF seems slow on iPadssysanon2013/09/27 04:33 PM
                            Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsDoug S2013/09/27 06:29 PM
                              Animated GIF seems slow on iPadssysanon2013/09/27 08:36 PM
                                Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsDoug S2013/09/27 09:07 PM
                                  Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsanonymou52013/09/28 12:58 AM
                              Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsJ.Random Webmasta2013/09/28 01:11 AM
                        Slow with Core i7 920Jouni Osmala2013/09/26 11:25 PM
                    Animated GIF seems slow on iPadsNoSpammer2013/09/27 01:13 AM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/26 01:18 PM
                    Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/26 02:19 PM
                      Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/26 02:35 PM
                      Charlie re: Apple and ARMJohn Poole2013/09/26 03:11 PM
                        Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/09/26 06:31 PM
                          Charlie re: Apple and ARMJohn Poole2013/09/27 11:02 PM
                      Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)David W2013/09/27 01:47 AM
                        Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)David Kanter2013/09/28 10:09 AM
                          Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)David Hess2013/09/28 10:21 AM
                            Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Michael S2013/09/28 11:00 AM
                              Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)David Hess2013/09/28 11:27 AM
                              Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)bakaneko2013/09/28 12:11 PM
                                Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Michael S2013/09/28 12:50 PM
                                  Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)EduardoS2013/09/28 01:50 PM
                                    Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Michael S2013/09/28 02:05 PM
                                  Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Doug S2013/09/28 05:15 PM
                                    Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)David Hess2013/09/28 08:03 PM
                                      Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Gabriele Svelto2013/09/30 04:23 AM
                                        Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Jukka Larja2013/09/30 07:23 AM
                                          Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Doug S2013/09/30 08:19 PM
                                            Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Jukka Larja2013/10/01 04:55 AM
                                              Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Rob Thorpe2013/10/01 08:26 AM
                                                Firefox PDF reader (re: Charlie re: Apple and ARM)Michael S2013/10/01 01:53 PM
                                                  Adobe Acrobat reader start up timeMichael S2013/10/02 01:19 AM
                                                    Adobe Acrobat reader start up timebdcrazy2013/10/11 06:28 AM
                          Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultRob Thorpe2013/10/01 08:14 AM
                            Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultj2013/10/01 11:12 AM
                              There are two of us (or three)Mark Roulo2013/10/01 01:15 PM
                              Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultRob Thorpe2013/10/01 04:05 PM
                            Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultSymmetry2013/10/02 12:51 PM
                              Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultDoug S2013/10/02 07:44 PM
                                Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultrwessel2013/10/02 11:21 PM
                                  Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultClemens Ladisch2013/10/03 12:20 AM
                                    Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultrwessel2013/10/03 01:12 AM
                                  Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultSymmetry2013/10/03 06:19 AM
                                Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultGabriele Svelto2013/10/03 02:05 AM
                                  Firefox PDF reader - am I the only person who likes the defaultDoug S2013/10/03 10:15 AM
              Charlie re: Apple and ARMJohn Poole2013/09/26 02:59 PM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMMaynard Handley2013/09/26 03:53 PM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARMJohn Poole2013/10/01 10:55 PM
                Charlie re: Apple and ARMLinus Torvalds2013/09/26 08:15 PM
                  Charlie re: Apple and ARMJohn Poole2013/10/01 10:45 PM
                    Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/10/02 10:14 AM
                      Charlie re: Apple and ARMJohn Poole2013/10/02 10:03 PM
                        Charlie re: Apple and ARManon2013/10/03 12:00 AM
                        Charlie re: Apple and ARMDoug S2013/10/03 10:08 AM
        Charlie re: Apple and ARMAlberto2013/09/25 01:50 PM
    Charlie re: Apple and ARMRonald Maas2013/09/24 10:39 PM
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How do you spell avocado?