Knights Landing CPU Speculation

Article: Knights Landing CPU Speculation
By: David Kanter (, November 20, 2013 9:52 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Amiba Gelos ( on November 19, 2013 8:36 pm wrote:
> David Kanter ( on November 18, 2013 3:03 am wrote:
> > Knights Landing is Intel’s first clean sheet redesign of the Larrabee family, targeted at throughput
> > computing and manufactured on a 14nm process with products expected in late 2014 or early 2015.
> > The adoption of AVX3, on-package embedded DRAM, and bootable products have been disclosed, but
> > most details are unknown. This article analyzes the options available for the Knights Landing
> > CPU core and explains why Intel’s existing cores are a poor fit for the target workloads, concluding
> > that the most likely outcome is a new custom core for Knights Landing.
> >
> >
> >
> > Questions, comments and discussion are welcome!
> >
> > David
> Great article as usual :-)
> I still hope I can read the Jaguar, GCN articles at RWT.
> You won't forget them won't you :D

I hope not, but GCN may be tough to do at such a late date :(

> Few questions emerged while reading the article.
> First, noticed that the scalar computing capacity of Larrabee is already 4 times
> of GCN's, not to mention Fermi/Kepler which rely on CPU to execute every "less-paralleled"
> code, further improvement over Larrabee core seems to be unnecessary.

That's true if I look at it from a competitive standpoint. But when I think about it from a user and system design perspective, I have a very different conclusion.

A lot of customers have applications with a combination of serial and parallel kernels. Just because KNC handles the serial kernels better than GCN or Kepler doesn't mean it is doing a good job. The serial performance on GPUs is absolutely terrible. So it's really about how much of the users work can be handled on KNL exclusively, rather than what the competitors are doing.

> Second, I wonder whether the claim that Knights Landing is bootable really implies we need good scalar
> core. A major advantage of bootable accelerator is that by moving from a heterogeneous MP to SMP the programming
> paradigm is greatly simplified. Therefore, faster scalar execution is not really needed.

GPUs are not bootable and therefore are typically used with SNB-EP or IVB-EP as a host processor. That means there is always a very high performance CPU nearby to handle serial portions of an application. KNL is bootable and for many scenarios will not have IVB-EP nearby; therefore it must have a higher performance core to handle such things.

< Previous Post in ThreadNext Post in Thread >
TopicPosted ByDate
Knights Landing CPU SpeculationDavid Kanter2013/11/18 02:03 AM
  Knights Landing CPU Speculationnone2013/11/18 02:59 AM
    Knights Landing CPU SpeculationPatrick Chase2013/11/23 03:18 PM
      Knights Landing CPU SpeculationAdam Kalisz2013/11/26 01:20 AM
        Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???Mark Roulo2013/11/26 09:28 AM
          Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???David Kanter2013/11/26 11:09 AM
          Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???Eric Bron2013/11/26 11:21 AM
            Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???tarlinian2013/11/26 11:50 AM
              Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???Eric Bron2013/11/26 01:07 PM
                Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???Eric Bron2013/11/26 01:09 PM
                Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???aaron spink2013/11/26 03:03 PM
                  Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???Eric Bron2013/11/26 11:42 PM
                    Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???aaron spink2013/11/27 10:31 AM
              Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???David Kanter2013/11/26 04:25 PM
                Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???tarlinian2013/11/26 07:01 PM
          Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???Eric2013/11/27 02:54 AM
            eDRAM is DRAM in a logic-oriented processPaul A. Clayton2013/11/27 07:10 AM
  Knights Landing CPU SpeculationJames2013/11/18 05:26 AM
    Knights Landing CPU SpeculationMichael S2013/11/18 02:57 PM
      Knights Landing CPU SpeculationUrban Novak2013/11/19 12:49 AM
        Knights Landing CPU Speculationnone2013/11/19 01:19 AM
          Knights Landing CPU SpeculationEric2013/11/19 07:48 PM
            Total GPGPU/Xeon Phi market maybe ~ $500M/year ...Mark Roulo2013/11/20 10:35 AM
      Knights Landing CPU SpeculationWes Felter2013/11/19 12:06 PM
        Knights Landing CPU SpeculationMichael S2013/11/19 12:49 PM
  Knights Landing CPU SpeculationEric2013/11/18 12:17 PM
    Knights Landing CPU SpeculationDaniel2013/11/19 02:28 AM
      Knights Landing CPU SpeculationEric2013/11/19 07:36 PM
      HPC guys score FLOPS non-obviouslyMark Roulo2013/11/20 10:43 AM
        3-TFlops-DGEMMMichael S2013/11/20 10:59 AM
          3-TFlops-DGEMMMark Roulo2013/11/20 12:22 PM
            3-TFlops-DGEMMDaniel2013/11/20 01:04 PM
              3-TFlops-DGEMMEric2013/11/21 01:28 AM
                3-TFlops-DGEMMMichael S2013/11/21 05:48 AM
                  3-TFlops-DGEMMRecessionCone2013/11/21 11:13 AM
                    3-TFlops-DGEMMMichael S2013/11/21 02:34 PM
                  3-TFlops-DGEMMEric2013/11/22 02:10 AM
                    3-TFlops-DGEMMMichael S2013/11/22 04:41 AM
                    A (not very sensible) alternative: FMADD + FADDPaul A. Clayton2013/11/22 08:19 AM
                  3-TFlops-DGEMMSylvain Collange2013/11/24 02:37 AM
                    3-TFlops-DGEMMMichael S2013/11/24 06:06 AM
                      3-TFlops-DGEMMSylvain Collange2013/11/24 09:28 AM
        HPC guys score FLOPS non-obviouslyPatrick Chase2013/11/23 02:58 PM
  Knights Landing CPU SpeculationPaul Caheny2013/11/18 01:25 PM
    Knights Landing CPU SpeculationKonrad Schwarz2013/11/19 12:24 AM
  Knights Landing CPU SpeculationAmiba Gelos2013/11/19 07:36 PM
    Knights Landing CPU SpeculationDavid Kanter2013/11/20 09:52 AM
    Knights Landing CPU SpeculationLinus Torvalds2013/11/21 02:12 PM
      Knights Landing CPU SpeculationAmiba Gelos2013/11/21 05:14 PM
      Knights Landing CPU SpeculationPatrick Chase2013/11/23 03:33 PM
        Knights Landing CPU SpeculationLinus Torvalds2013/11/25 11:29 AM
          Knights Landing CPU SpeculationLinus Torvalds2013/11/25 12:05 PM
          Knights Landing CPU SpeculationPatrick Chase2013/11/25 12:22 PM
            Knights Landing CPU SpeculationLinus Torvalds2013/11/26 10:11 AM
          Knights Landing CPU SpeculationEric2013/11/26 03:05 AM
            Knights Landing CPU SpeculationEric2013/11/26 03:15 AM
            Knights Landing CPU Speculationnone2013/11/26 03:33 AM
              Knights Landing CPU SpeculationEric2013/11/26 06:30 PM
                Knights Landing CPU SpeculationEric2013/11/26 06:34 PM
                  What is MCDRAM?anon2013/11/26 08:58 PM
                    What is MCDRAM?none2013/11/27 01:00 AM
                      What is MCDRAM?Klimax2013/11/27 02:19 AM
                  Knights Landing CPU SpeculationKlimax2013/11/26 11:06 PM
                Knights Landing CPU SpeculationKlimax2013/11/26 11:05 PM
            Knights Landing CPU Speculationanon2013/11/26 05:53 AM
              Knights Landing CPU Speculationnone2013/11/26 06:20 AM
                Knights Landing CPU SpeculationMichael S2013/11/26 08:06 AM
                  Knights Landing CPU Speculationnone2013/11/26 09:18 AM
                    Knights Landing CPU SpeculationEric Bron2013/11/26 01:21 PM
                      Knights Landing CPU SpeculationEric Bron2013/11/26 01:27 PM
                        Knights Landing CPU Speculationnone2013/11/26 02:26 PM
                    Knights Landing CPU Speculationanon2013/11/26 05:42 PM
                      Knights Landing CPU Speculationnone2013/11/27 01:08 AM
                        Knights Landing CPU Speculationanon2013/11/27 01:50 AM
                          Knights Landing CPU Speculationnone2013/11/27 01:58 AM
                      Knights Landing CPU SpeculationMichael S2013/11/27 01:25 AM
                        Knights Landing CPU Speculationanon2013/11/27 02:32 AM
                          Knights Landing CPU SpeculationMichael S2013/11/27 03:08 AM
    Knights Landing CPU SpeculationChung Leong2013/11/27 01:28 AM
      Knights Landing CPU SpeculationMichael S2013/11/27 02:53 AM
        Knights Landing CPU SpeculationChung Leong2013/11/27 01:03 PM
  BiG.LiTTLe for KNL?Jeff K2013/11/22 06:17 AM
    BiG.LiTTLe for KNL?Patrick Chase2013/11/23 02:54 PM
      BiG.LiTTLe for KNL?Patrick Chase2013/11/23 03:01 PM
  Transactional memoryPatrick Chase2013/11/23 02:37 PM
    Transactional memoryBhima2013/11/25 07:01 AM
      Transactional memoryPatrick Chase2013/11/25 11:52 AM
  Knights Landing CPU SpeculationDaniel2013/11/25 02:17 AM
    Knights Landing CPU SpeculationKlimax2013/11/25 03:12 AM
    Knights Landing CPU Speculationnone2013/11/25 04:05 AM
      Knights Landing CPU SpeculationKlimax2013/11/25 04:45 AM
        Knights Landing CPU Speculationnone2013/11/25 04:55 AM
          Knights Landing CPU Speculationgmb2013/11/25 07:21 AM
Reply to this Topic
Body: No Text
How do you spell green?