Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???

Article: Knights Landing CPU Speculation
By: David Kanter (dkanter.delete@this.realworldtech.com), November 26, 2013 12:09 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Mark Roulo (nothanks.delete@this.xxx.com) on November 26, 2013 10:28 am wrote:
> Adam Kalisz (adam.kalisz.delete@this.outlook.com) on November 26, 2013 2:20 am wrote:
> > Sorry, if I don't follow the commenting rules and English grammar right
> > - it's my first comment here and English is my 3rd language.
> > I wrote with David about Intel KL on Twitter.
> >
> > -->
> >
> > I guess, I was right about the DRAM on package, I wasn't right about the size of it though. It looks like,
> > there will be 8 or 16GB of it instead of my initial guess of 1 GB (I thought of Crystalwell which would be
> > about 8x 100GBps) it looks like they will choose MCDRAM
> > and some lower bandwidth - higher-density parts. I'm
> > not very experienced in this field from the technical and manufacturing/ decission-making point of view.
>
> I would love to see an 8 GB eDRAM option, but I don't know how this works out.
>
> Anand has the 128 MB CrystalWell die at 84 mm^2 (on a 22nm process).
>
> 8 GB is 64x that ... so 5,376 mm^2. Even if we get a perfect size benefit from 22->14 nm,
> we're still looking at over 2,000 mm^2 just for the eDRAM. That seems ... um ... large?
>
> More ... Anand also claims that "Under load, operating at full bandwidth, the
> power usage is 3.5 - 4.5W" ... so 64 of these and we have ~200W just for the
> eDRAM. Sure, we'll see some power savings (maybe) because of 14nm, but ...
>
> Anyone?

They will use larger arrays and fewer chips. Each eDRAM chip has 100GB/s of memory bandwidth, and the leaked slides suggest 400-600GB/s of eDRAM bandwidth.

The real question is how much of the 84mm2 is the PHY for the eDRAM.

I calculated that a 16GB KNF configuration would use 1/5th of a 300mm2 wafer on 22nm. That's a ton of area, and probably represents around $500 of cost, so Intel's going to want to charge at least $1K for that.

David
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TopicPosted ByDate
Knights Landing CPU SpeculationDavid Kanter2013/11/18 03:03 AM
  Knights Landing CPU Speculationnone2013/11/18 03:59 AM
    Knights Landing CPU SpeculationPatrick Chase2013/11/23 04:18 PM
      Knights Landing CPU Speculation2013/11/26 02:20 AM
        Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???Mark Roulo2013/11/26 10:28 AM
          Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???David Kanter2013/11/26 12:09 PM
          Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???Eric Bron2013/11/26 12:21 PM
            Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???tarlinian2013/11/26 12:50 PM
              Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???Eric Bron2013/11/26 02:07 PM
                Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???Eric Bron2013/11/26 02:09 PM
                Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???aaron spink2013/11/26 04:03 PM
                  Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???Eric Bron2013/11/27 12:42 AM
                    Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???aaron spink2013/11/27 11:31 AM
              Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???David Kanter2013/11/26 05:25 PM
                Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???tarlinian2013/11/26 08:01 PM
          Over 2,000 mm^2 of eDRAM???Eric2013/11/27 03:54 AM
            eDRAM is DRAM in a logic-oriented processPaul A. Clayton2013/11/27 08:10 AM
  Knights Landing CPU SpeculationJames2013/11/18 06:26 AM
    Knights Landing CPU SpeculationMichael S2013/11/18 03:57 PM
      Knights Landing CPU SpeculationUrban Novak2013/11/19 01:49 AM
        Knights Landing CPU Speculationnone2013/11/19 02:19 AM
          Knights Landing CPU SpeculationEric2013/11/19 08:48 PM
            Total GPGPU/Xeon Phi market maybe ~ $500M/year ...Mark Roulo2013/11/20 11:35 AM
      Knights Landing CPU SpeculationWes Felter2013/11/19 01:06 PM
        Knights Landing CPU SpeculationMichael S2013/11/19 01:49 PM
  Knights Landing CPU SpeculationEric2013/11/18 01:17 PM
    Knights Landing CPU SpeculationDaniel2013/11/19 03:28 AM
      Knights Landing CPU SpeculationEric2013/11/19 08:36 PM
      HPC guys score FLOPS non-obviouslyMark Roulo2013/11/20 11:43 AM
        3-TFlops-DGEMMMichael S2013/11/20 11:59 AM
          3-TFlops-DGEMMMark Roulo2013/11/20 01:22 PM
            3-TFlops-DGEMMDaniel2013/11/20 02:04 PM
              3-TFlops-DGEMMEric2013/11/21 02:28 AM
                3-TFlops-DGEMMMichael S2013/11/21 06:48 AM
                  3-TFlops-DGEMMRecessionCone2013/11/21 12:13 PM
                    3-TFlops-DGEMMMichael S2013/11/21 03:34 PM
                  3-TFlops-DGEMMEric2013/11/22 03:10 AM
                    3-TFlops-DGEMMMichael S2013/11/22 05:41 AM
                    A (not very sensible) alternative: FMADD + FADDPaul A. Clayton2013/11/22 09:19 AM
                  3-TFlops-DGEMMSylvain Collange2013/11/24 03:37 AM
                    3-TFlops-DGEMMMichael S2013/11/24 07:06 AM
                      3-TFlops-DGEMMSylvain Collange2013/11/24 10:28 AM
        HPC guys score FLOPS non-obviouslyPatrick Chase2013/11/23 03:58 PM
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      Knights Landing CPU SpeculationAmiba Gelos2013/11/21 06:14 PM
      Knights Landing CPU SpeculationPatrick Chase2013/11/23 04:33 PM
        Knights Landing CPU SpeculationLinus Torvalds2013/11/25 12:29 PM
          Knights Landing CPU SpeculationLinus Torvalds2013/11/25 01:05 PM
          Knights Landing CPU SpeculationPatrick Chase2013/11/25 01:22 PM
            Knights Landing CPU SpeculationLinus Torvalds2013/11/26 11:11 AM
          Knights Landing CPU SpeculationEric2013/11/26 04:05 AM
            Knights Landing CPU SpeculationEric2013/11/26 04:15 AM
            Knights Landing CPU Speculationnone2013/11/26 04:33 AM
              Knights Landing CPU SpeculationEric2013/11/26 07:30 PM
                Knights Landing CPU SpeculationEric2013/11/26 07:34 PM
                  What is MCDRAM?anon2013/11/26 09:58 PM
                    What is MCDRAM?none2013/11/27 02:00 AM
                      What is MCDRAM?Klimax2013/11/27 03:19 AM
                  Knights Landing CPU SpeculationKlimax2013/11/27 12:06 AM
                Knights Landing CPU SpeculationKlimax2013/11/27 12:05 AM
            Knights Landing CPU Speculationanon2013/11/26 06:53 AM
              Knights Landing CPU Speculationnone2013/11/26 07:20 AM
                Knights Landing CPU SpeculationMichael S2013/11/26 09:06 AM
                  Knights Landing CPU Speculationnone2013/11/26 10:18 AM
                    Knights Landing CPU SpeculationEric Bron2013/11/26 02:21 PM
                      Knights Landing CPU SpeculationEric Bron2013/11/26 02:27 PM
                        Knights Landing CPU Speculationnone2013/11/26 03:26 PM
                    Knights Landing CPU Speculationanon2013/11/26 06:42 PM
                      Knights Landing CPU Speculationnone2013/11/27 02:08 AM
                        Knights Landing CPU Speculationanon2013/11/27 02:50 AM
                          Knights Landing CPU Speculationnone2013/11/27 02:58 AM
                      Knights Landing CPU SpeculationMichael S2013/11/27 02:25 AM
                        Knights Landing CPU Speculationanon2013/11/27 03:32 AM
                          Knights Landing CPU SpeculationMichael S2013/11/27 04:08 AM
    Knights Landing CPU SpeculationChung Leong2013/11/27 02:28 AM
      Knights Landing CPU SpeculationMichael S2013/11/27 03:53 AM
        Knights Landing CPU SpeculationChung Leong2013/11/27 02:03 PM
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    BiG.LiTTLe for KNL?Patrick Chase2013/11/23 03:54 PM
      BiG.LiTTLe for KNL?Patrick Chase2013/11/23 04:01 PM
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    Transactional memoryBhima2013/11/25 08:01 AM
      Transactional memoryPatrick Chase2013/11/25 12:52 PM
  Knights Landing CPU SpeculationDaniel2013/11/25 03:17 AM
    Knights Landing CPU SpeculationKlimax2013/11/25 04:12 AM
    Knights Landing CPU Speculationnone2013/11/25 05:05 AM
      Knights Landing CPU SpeculationKlimax2013/11/25 05:45 AM
        Knights Landing CPU Speculationnone2013/11/25 05:55 AM
          Knights Landing CPU Speculationgmb2013/11/25 08:21 AM
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