Potential way to autovectorization in the future.

Article: Knights Landing Details
By: Travis (travis.downs.delete@this.gmail.com), August 4, 2018 1:50 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
I forgot one big advantage of auto-vectorization: it is way more future-proof than assembly or intrinsics. As new ISAs become available, compilers will just be able to use them on your original source, so things should only get faster over time.

In that respect it's a bit like REP MOVS for copies: "since forever" it hasn't been the fastest approach when compared to hand-written contemporary approaches: but although it lags behind the best it keeps improving along with the best at roughly the same rate as new ISAs are introduced. So that REP MOVSB you wrote 25 years ago is pretty damn fast today compared the byte copy loop you might have written that would have been faster then. REP MOVS also allows you to effectively access 32-byte registers on modern neutered chips where AVX isn't available (Pentium/Celeron whatevers): you can't use the full-width mov instructions, but behind the scenes rep movs does, so you can very slightly cheat the segmentation.

Jouni Osmala (a.delete@this.b.com) on August 3, 2018 10:22 pm wrote:
> 2) AVX-512 should be the target ISA level which autovectorization makes sense. The potentially
> vectorizable subset is far greater, and you can avoid epilogue by it. The features of > ...
> Here's the problem of current situation, Intel tied AVX-512 to 10nm process for
> the mainstream and their 10nm process got postponed several times. And that leads
> it not being reasonable target for general audience for a long time.

I think Intel could have introduced AVX-512 a long time ago on client chips if they wanted, around when they introduced Skylake-SP.

I think Skylake client probably has most of the machinery needed for need for AVX-512, but it's just disabled/fused off[1]. For example I think it might very well have a 512-bit wide PRF. There were a lot of changes in Skylake client, including rearranging some port assignments and reducing the L2 associativity that makes sense mostly if they wanted to re-use the same core for Skylake-SP.

Also, take a look at these die shots:

Skylake client:

Skylake client die

Skylake server (including uncore):

Skylake server die

Can someone who knows about this stuff point out the PRF? Maybe the regular blocks under the letter "OoO" in the first picture?

You can see how the rectangular core part of the Skylake server die looks just like the Skylake client part, plus the "extra" AVX-512 EU and 768KiB of L2 cache hanging off the side mixed in with the uncore. So it looks very much like Skylake client was designed in mind already with this extension, which means that any part of the die inside the "core rectangle" in the server part would have already had all the transistors needed for AVX-512. In particular, it would have had 1 512-bit FMA unit (which isn't even anything else extra since that's just the two 256-bit FMAs it already has, stitched together). More importantly, it probably has all the in-core support for mask registers, the new AVX-512 instructions, etc, etc.

I think that's why you get some cheaper Skylake-SP server chips with 1 FMA unit: they are the ones whose uncore doesn't have that extra AVX block hanging off the top. So in this case the missing FMA unit isn't arbitrary segmentation: it's actually a result of that EU hanging off the side of the main code and able to be omitted in some uncore designs.

So I think if Intel wanted AVX-512 everywhere, they could do it, but they don't/didn't want it.

I think they should: AVX-512 support and in general better wide vector support is one of the last remaining technical advantages they have over Ryzen which is a pretty damn good product.




[1] In fact, disabling it is very easy, because even chips with functional AVX-512 keep it powered down until you use it, including the high lanes of all the ALUs, probably the high parts of the PRF, etc. So to disable AVX-512, you just have to disallow any execution of the instructions, and the existing powersaving mechanisms mean you don't pay much cost.
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                                          Knights Landing L/S bandwidthMichael S2014/01/08 03:40 PM
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                            Knights Landing L/S bandwidthanon2014/01/13 01:41 AM
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                      Knights Landing L/S bandwidthanon2014/01/06 04:01 AM
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                                              KNC code generator with EVEX back-end?Exophase2014/01/08 10:00 AM
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                                              KNC code generator with EVEX back-end?Eric Bron2014/01/08 10:35 AM
                                                KNC code generator with EVEX back-end?Michael S2014/01/08 11:07 AM
                                                  KNC code generator with EVEX back-end?Eric Bron2014/01/08 11:24 AM
                                                    KNC code generator with EVEX back-end?Michael S2014/01/08 11:43 AM
                                                      KNC code generator with EVEX back-end?Eric Bron2014/01/08 01:23 PM
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                                            evil questionhobold2014/01/08 10:22 AM
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                                                evil questionhobold2014/01/08 02:33 PM
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                                                        stupid question (was: evil question)Michael S2014/01/09 08:00 AM
                                                          stupid question (was: evil question)Michael S2014/01/09 08:12 AM
                                                            stupid question (was: evil question)Eric Bron2014/01/09 10:47 AM
                                                              stupid question (was: evil question)Michael S2014/01/09 11:48 AM
                                                                more decisive (hopefully) test caseMichael S2014/01/09 12:01 PM
                                                                  more decisive (hopefully) test caseEric Bron2014/01/09 12:08 PM
                                                                    more decisive (hopefully) test caseMichael S2014/01/09 12:24 PM
                                                                      more decisive (hopefully) test caseEric Bron2014/01/09 12:27 PM
                                                                        more decisive (hopefully) test caseMichael S2014/01/09 12:33 PM
                                                                  AVX2Eric Bron2014/01/09 12:14 PM
                                                                    AVX2Michael S2014/01/09 12:30 PM
                                                                      AVX2Eric Bron2014/01/09 12:40 PM
                                                                  another tryMichael S2014/01/09 03:02 PM
                                                                    another tryEric Bron2014/01/09 03:33 PM
                                                                      another tryMichael S2014/01/09 04:20 PM
                                                                      another try - ignore misformated mess aboveMichael S2014/01/09 04:24 PM
                                                                        another try - ignore misformated mess aboveGabriele Svelto2014/01/10 01:01 AM
                                                                          another try - ignore misformated mess aboveEric Bron2014/01/10 03:05 AM
                                                                            another try - ignore misformated mess aboveMichael S2014/01/11 10:23 AM
                                                                              another try - ignore misformated mess aboveEric Bron2014/01/11 11:08 AM
                                                                                another try - ignore misformated mess aboveMichael S2014/01/11 12:09 PM
                                                                                  another try - ignore misformated mess aboveMichael S2014/01/11 12:12 PM
                                                                                    another try - ignore misformated mess aboveEric Bron2014/01/11 12:24 PM
                                                                                      another try - ignore misformated mess aboveMichael S2014/01/11 01:24 PM
                                                                                        another try - ignore misformated mess aboveEric Bron2014/01/11 02:11 PM
                                                                                          another try - ignore misformated mess aboveMichael S2014/01/11 02:18 PM
                                                                                            another try - ignore misformated mess aboveEric Bron2014/01/11 02:27 PM
                                                                                              another try - ignore misformated mess aboveMichael S2014/01/11 02:29 PM
                                                                                                another try - ignore misformated mess aboveEric Bron2014/01/11 02:46 PM
                                                                                                  another try - ignore misformated mess aboveEric Bron2014/01/11 02:46 PM
                                                                                                  another try - ignore misformated mess aboveMichael S2014/01/11 03:28 PM
                                                                                        another try - ignore misformated mess aboveEric Bron2014/01/11 02:17 PM
                                                                                          another try - ignore misformated mess aboveMichael S2014/01/11 02:24 PM
                                                                    KNC versionMichael S2014/01/11 05:19 PM
                                                                      KNC versionEric Bron nli2014/01/12 02:59 AM
                                                                        KNC versionGabriele Svelto2014/01/12 09:06 AM
                                                  evil questionEric Bron2014/01/08 02:41 PM
              Knights Landing L/S bandwidthPatrick Chase2014/01/05 11:20 PM
                Knights Landing L/S bandwidthEric Bron2014/01/06 02:45 AM
                  Knights Landing L/S bandwidthanon2014/01/06 04:12 AM
                    Knights Landing L/S bandwidthMichael S2014/01/06 04:17 AM
                      Knights Landing L/S bandwidthanon2014/01/06 05:20 AM
          Knights Landing L/S bandwidthNicolas Capens2014/01/04 05:34 PM
            Knights Landing L/S bandwidthEric Bron2014/01/04 05:44 PM
              Knights Landing L/S bandwidthNicolas Capens2014/01/05 12:25 PM
                Knights Landing L/S bandwidthEric Bron2014/01/05 01:50 PM
                  Knights Landing L/S bandwidthNicolas Capens2014/01/05 03:34 PM
                    Might even help with gatherNicolas Capens2014/01/05 03:40 PM
                      What is an L0 cache?David Kanter2014/01/05 10:44 PM
                        What is an L0 cache?anon2014/01/06 05:57 AM
                          What is an L0 cache?Nicolas Capens2014/01/06 12:57 PM
                            What is an L0 cache?anon2014/01/06 02:18 PM
    Knights Landing L/S bandwidthDavid Kanter2014/01/04 10:58 AM
      Knights Landing L/S bandwidthNicolas Capens2014/01/04 04:24 PM
        Knights Landing L/S bandwidthEric Bron2014/01/04 04:46 PM
          Knights Landing L/S bandwidthKonrad Schwarz2014/01/08 12:48 AM
            Knights Landing L/S bandwidthMichael S2014/01/08 02:45 AM
        Knights Landing L/S bandwidthDavid Kanter2014/01/05 01:44 AM
          Knights Landing L/S bandwidthEric Bron2014/01/05 03:55 AM
          Knights Landing L/S bandwidthNicolas Capens2014/01/05 12:18 PM
            Knights Landing L/S bandwidthMaynard Handley2014/01/05 11:33 PM
              Knights Landing L/S bandwidthEric Bron2014/01/06 04:02 AM
                Knights Landing L/S bandwidthMichael S2014/01/06 04:23 AM
                  Knights Landing L/S bandwidthEric Bron2014/01/06 04:35 AM
                    Knights Landing L/S bandwidthMichael S2014/01/06 05:20 AM
                      Knights Landing L/S bandwidthMichael S2014/01/06 05:32 AM
                      Knights Landing L/S bandwidthEric Bron2014/01/06 05:36 AM
                        Knights Landing L/S bandwidthMichael S2014/01/06 06:00 AM
                          Knights Landing L/S bandwidthEric Bron2014/01/06 06:07 AM
                          Knights Landing L/S bandwidthEric Bron2014/01/06 06:14 AM
                            editsEric Bron2014/01/06 06:22 AM
                              optimized versionEric Bron2014/01/06 06:35 AM
                                yet more optimized versionEric Bron2014/01/06 06:42 AM
                                  latest version for todayEric Bron2014/01/06 06:51 AM
                                    Probably just L2 bandwith limitedNicolas Capens2014/01/06 11:48 AM
                                  yet more optimized versionMaynard Handley2014/01/06 06:54 PM
                                optimized versionMaynard Handley2014/01/06 06:52 PM
                                  optimized versionMichael S2014/01/07 10:42 AM
                                    optimized versionNicolas Capens2014/01/07 12:36 PM
                                      optimized versionMichael S2014/01/07 03:41 PM
                                        optimized versionNicolas Capens2014/01/07 10:52 PM
                                          optimized versionMichael S2014/01/08 02:10 AM
                                    optimized versionEric Bron2014/01/07 02:34 PM
                                      optimized versionMichael S2014/01/07 03:18 PM
                                        optimized versionEric Bron2014/01/07 03:30 PM
                                          optimized versionEric Bron2014/01/07 03:33 PM
                                            optimized versionMichael S2014/01/07 03:57 PM
                                    optimized versionMaynard Handley2014/01/07 06:50 PM
                                      optimized versionMichael S2014/01/08 02:39 AM
                Knights Landing L/S bandwidthMaynard Handley2014/01/06 06:47 PM
              Knights Landing L/S bandwidthNicolas Capens2014/01/06 09:18 AM
                Knights Landing L/S bandwidthMaynard Handley2014/01/06 06:56 PM
                  Knights Landing L/S bandwidthNicolas Capens2014/01/07 12:18 PM
        Knights Landing L/S bandwidthNoSpammer2014/01/05 01:15 PM
          Knights Landing L/S bandwidthNicolas Capens2014/01/05 03:06 PM
            Knights Landing L/S bandwidthNoSpammer2014/01/06 04:20 AM
              Knights Landing L/S bandwidthNicolas Capens2014/01/06 11:54 AM
                Knights Landing L/S bandwidthNoSpammer2014/01/06 01:24 PM
                  Knights Landing L/S bandwidthNicolas Capens2014/01/06 09:15 PM
                    Knights Landing L/S bandwidthNoSpammer2014/01/07 03:58 AM
                      Knights Landing L/S bandwidthNicolas Capens2014/01/07 03:18 PM
                        Knights Landing L/S bandwidthNoSpammer2014/01/08 01:38 PM
                          Knights Landing L/S bandwidthNicolas Capens2014/01/08 11:14 PM
  AVX512F questionMichael S2014/01/06 10:18 AM
    AVX512F questionNicolas Capens2014/01/06 12:01 PM
  Knights Landing - time for obituary?Michael S2018/07/31 03:00 PM
    Knights Landing - time for obituary?Adrian2018/07/31 09:24 PM
      Knights Landing - time for obituary?SoftwareEngineer2018/08/01 02:15 AM
        auto-vectorization is a dead endMichael S2018/08/01 03:48 AM
          Auto-vectorization of random C is a dead endMark Roulo2018/08/01 11:07 AM
            Auto-vectorization of random C is a dead endPassing Through2018/08/01 01:35 PM
              Auto-vectorization of random C is a dead endDavid Kanter2018/08/01 10:44 PM
                Auto-vectorization of random C is a dead endPassing Through2018/08/02 01:51 AM
            Auto-vectorization of random C is a dead endSoftwareEngineer2018/08/02 01:19 AM
              Auto-vectorization of random C is a dead endMark Roulo2018/08/02 09:50 AM
                Auto-vectorization of random C is a dead endMichael S2018/08/02 12:11 PM
                  Auto-vectorization of random C is a dead endj2018/08/02 11:37 PM
                    Auto-vectorization of random C is a dead endMichael S2018/08/03 03:50 AM
                      Auto-vectorization of random C is a dead endrwessel2018/08/03 11:06 PM
                  Auto-vectorization of random C is a dead endRicardo B2018/08/03 04:20 AM
                    Auto-vectorization of random C is a dead endMichael S2018/08/03 05:37 AM
                      Auto-vectorization of random C is a dead endRicardo B2018/08/03 11:22 AM
            Auto-vectorization of random C is a dead endTravis2018/08/03 07:58 PM
              Potential way to autovectorization in the future. Jouni Osmala2018/08/03 10:22 PM
                Potential way to autovectorization in the future. Jukka Larja2018/08/04 04:03 AM
                  Potential way to autovectorization in the future. Passing Through2018/08/04 06:47 AM
                Potential way to autovectorization in the future. Travis2018/08/04 01:50 PM
                  Potential way to autovectorization in the future. Michael S2018/08/04 02:33 PM
                    Potential way to autovectorization in the future. Travis2018/08/04 02:48 PM
                    Potential way to autovectorization in the future. Passing Through2018/08/04 02:58 PM
                  Skylake server/client AVX PRF speculationJeff S.2018/08/04 05:42 PM
                    Skylake server/client AVX PRF speculationanonymou52018/08/04 06:21 PM
                      Skylake server/client AVX PRF speculationJeff S.2018/08/04 06:38 PM
                        Skylake server/client AVX PRF speculationanonymou52018/08/04 07:45 PM
                          Skylake server/client AVX PRF speculationJeff S.2018/08/04 08:08 PM
                            Skylake server/client AVX PRF speculationanonymou52018/08/04 08:18 PM
                              Skylake server/client AVX PRF speculationNomad2018/08/05 11:10 PM
                                Skylake server/client AVX PRF speculationanonymou52018/08/06 12:14 PM
                                Skylake server/client AVX PRF speculationTravis2018/08/06 08:43 PM
                            Skylake server/client AVX PRF speculationTravis2018/08/06 08:39 PM
              Auto-vectorization of random C is a dead endBrett2018/08/04 01:55 PM
                Auto-vectorization of random C is a dead endTravis2018/08/04 02:38 PM
                  Auto-vectorization of random C is a dead endPassing Through2018/08/04 03:00 PM
                    New record for shortest post by Ireland - AI crashed? (NT)Travis2018/08/04 03:34 PM
                      New record for shortest post by Ireland - AI crashed?Passing Through2018/08/04 04:12 PM
                        New record for shortest post by Ireland - AI crashed?anonymou52018/08/04 06:00 PM
                          New record for shortest post by Ireland - AI crashed?Brett2018/08/04 06:40 PM
                            New record for shortest post by Ireland - AI crashed?anonymou52018/08/04 07:38 PM
                  Auto-vectorization of random C is a dead endnoko2018/08/04 09:46 PM
        The story of ispc (a 12 entry blog series)Simon Farnsworth2018/08/01 03:50 AM
          the 1st link is empty (NT)Michael S2018/08/01 04:05 AM
            the 1st link is emptySimon Farnsworth2018/08/01 06:42 AM
          Interesting read, thanks! (NT)SoftwareEngineer2018/08/01 06:57 AM
          Amazing readLaurent2018/08/01 09:00 AM
            Amazing readPassing Through2018/08/01 01:13 PM
              Amazing readDoug S2018/08/01 02:30 PM
                Amazing readPassing Through2018/08/01 02:49 PM
          ISPC vs OpenCL?j2018/08/02 11:41 PM
            ISPC vs OpenCL?coppcie2018/08/03 03:55 AM
            ISPC vs OpenCL?Passing Through2018/08/03 04:07 AM
              Go awayForum Reader2018/08/03 08:11 AM
              ISPC vs OpenCL?Gian-Carlo Pascutto2018/09/11 06:50 AM
            ISPC vs OpenCL?SoftwareEngineer2018/08/03 04:18 AM
        Knights Landing - time for obituary?Kevin G2018/08/01 07:14 AM
          Knights Landing - time for obituary?SoftwareEngineer2018/08/01 07:29 AM
        Knights Landing - time for obituary?Passing Through2018/08/01 07:38 AM
          Knights Landing - time for obituary?Eric Bron2018/08/02 06:57 AM
            Knights Landing - time for obituary?Passing Through2018/08/02 12:29 PM
              Knights Landing - time for obituary?Eric Bron2018/08/02 01:49 PM
                Knights Landing - time for obituary?Passing Through2018/08/02 02:17 PM
          chess algorithms vs, low level optimizationsEric Bron2018/08/02 07:15 AM
            AlphaZero vs StockfishMichael S2018/08/02 07:55 AM
              AlphaZero vs StockfishEric Bron2018/08/02 08:24 AM
                AlphaZero vs StockfishMichael S2018/08/02 09:01 AM
                  AlphaZero vs StockfishEric Bron2018/08/02 09:11 AM
                  Leela 4th vs all othersEric Bron nli2018/09/11 03:40 AM
              AlphaZero vs StockfishGian-Carlo Pascutto2018/09/11 06:31 AM
                AlphaZero vs StockfishEric Bron2018/09/11 09:26 AM
                  AlphaZero vs StockfishEric Bron2018/09/11 09:58 AM
                    AlphaZero vs StockfishPer Hesselgren2018/12/31 10:04 AM
                Leela Chess ZeroPer Hesselgren2018/12/31 12:00 PM
              AlphaZero vs Stockfish (on Xeon)Per Hesselgren2018/12/31 09:59 AM
        C/C++ and vector/parallel/distributedRichardC2018/08/02 05:50 AM
      Knights Landing - time for obituary?Passing Through2018/08/01 07:52 AM
        Knights Landing - time for obituary?Kevin G2018/08/01 02:03 PM
          Knights Landing - time for obituary?Passing Through2018/08/01 02:33 PM
      Knights Landing - time for obituary?Kevin G2018/08/01 08:26 AM
        Knights Landing - time for obituary?Kevin G2018/08/01 08:26 AM
        Knights Landing - time for obituary?juanrga2018/08/01 02:26 PM
          Knights Landing - time for obituary?hobel2018/08/02 05:46 AM
    Knights Landing - time for obituary?juanrga2018/07/31 11:25 PM
      Right, time for obituary for whole LRB lineageAM2018/08/02 11:46 AM
        Right, time for obituary for whole LRB lineageAdrian2018/08/02 11:46 PM
          LRBNI, AVX512, etc...Michael S2018/08/03 05:23 AM
        Right, time for obituary for whole LRB lineagejuanrga2018/08/03 04:11 AM
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How do you spell green?