on ISAs and a plea for piece

By: Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org), August 15, 2014 4:41 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
David Kanter (dkanter.delete@this.realworldtech.com) on August 15, 2014 3:01 pm wrote:
> juanrga (nospam.delete@this.juanrga.com) on August 15, 2014 11:39 am wrote:
> > David Kanter (dkanter.delete@this.realworldtech.com) on August 15, 2014 9:41 am wrote:
> >
> > > I also am skeptical that anyone can match Intel in performance while trailing behind by a node. To do that,
> > > it is necessary to offer a very different product with a
> > > different system architecture. E.g., target workloads
> > > where cache does not help and simply slap down more memory controllers and cores (hint: that's a GPU!).
>
> > The ISA advantage will be greatly reduced in the top-end
> > side of the performance spectrum, but will not vanish.
> > Keller mentioned during Core Day conference that his K12
> > core will have a "bigger engine" than its x86 sister
> > thanks to the advantages of ARMv8 over x86-64, which allows to spend more transistors on compute.
>
> I happen to know the differences between those two designs. I'm not really sure it's
> going to translate into a significant performance delta. My guess is maybe 10%.

10% is two years of Intel's current 5% improvement a year.

Maybe that's why there's so much disagreement here? Some of us see "two years" and think that's massive, some of us see "10%" and think that's nothing?

..

I don't want to get involved in the fight over whether various forthcoming ARM64 CPUs are "real" or "servers", but I do get the feeling that most of the vitriol is being generated as a result of miscommunication.

In particular, I get the feeling that the x86 partisans have a particular model in mind for what a "server" IS, and are vociferous that nothing in the ARM camp meets that definition. (Of course it doesn't, if the definition includes "runs x86 code", but what we're seeing is more subtle than that. The expectation is that a server is a certain type of box, running certain types of code, with certain types of IO, costing a certain amount, and being sold to a certain type of customer. )

On the other hand, the ARM proponent are trying to be a lot more catholic in their tastes. They see a "server" as a much more generic term, and see everywhere they look, jobs that could be done perfectly well with boxes that are cheap, that don't demand particular RAS features, that can run fairly generic software, that can be unbalanced in various ways (whether it's amount of RAM, or RAM bandwidth, or IO or whatever). They see a world which needs ever more CDNs, ever more memcached boxes, maybe boxes that sit between IPv6 and IPv4 networks and translate between them, maybe boxes that do nothing but scan twitter feeds looking for keywords and correlating activity, etc etc.
Point is, they see a world of computing tasks to be done, and which can be done adequately, and a lot more cheaply, on various models of these upcoming ARM "server" SoCs. In many ways this is no different from the point in the mid-90's where first Google and then a few other internet companies made a big deal about the fact that they did not need (and were not prepared to pay) for "server" quality hardware --- they were quite happy to put together boxes that did what they needed and did not do a damn thing more.
The frustration arises because the pro-x86 people appear to refuse to engage with this possibility

(I'd draw an analogy to gaming, where the types of people who play a particular type of game game on souped up $3000 rigs simply will not accept that playing a game on your iPhone or Android tablet counts as gaming in any "real" sense --- and thus are mostly blind to how the world around them is changing.
One can understand their anger/fear --- the sooner the world is content with that sort of gaming, the sooner the world will stop manufacturing, at least at prices and in form factors that are useful to gamers, the types of GPUs that hardcore gamers utilize. But pretending the world is not changing because you don't want it to has never served anyone well.)

..

Finally, over the past three months or so, something appears to have broken on this board.
The way I see it, the value (and joy) of this forum is that people can throw out ideas and have them critiqued. Some of the ideas we throw out will be flawed --- and with luck the arguments presented against them will convince us. Some of the ideas we throw out will be undecidable, at least for now, but hopefully we'll all learn something as they are attacked and defended.

An important point in all this, however, is that just because ideas are presented does not mean that they are strongly held, and does not mean that they need to be attacked like a rabid wolverine. Posts that consists of nothing but "It seems to me plausible, but I could be wrong, that maybe the right thing for Intel to do is..." or "Some people say ARM is like this, but then I've also read it's like that" are difficult and irritating to read. That is not the way you talk to your friends in real life, and it shouldn't (IMHO) have to be the way you talk on a forum like this.

I'd urge everyone on this board to step back a little and reimagine what's happening here as something like a group of EE seniors chatting with each other in the dorm room late at night. We all have interesting FACTS that we can use to bolster arguments. We all have interesting OPINIONS about where things will (and should) go, opinions based on patterns we perceive, on our interpretation of history, on our understanding of the economics and business issues involved. We all have interesting QUESTIONS, some fact based (is this possible? has anyone ever done this), some opinion based (how would you handle this engineering/business problem).

The joy of the conversation is in learning stuff along the way, it's not in "winning" by reducing your opponent to a pulp. Even if your opponent is a fool, in real life the way you would handle that is to explain (once, maybe with one followup) that he is wrong, and then to gently ignore him. Maybe take him aside and explain that his enthusiasm is appreciated but he's not really following dorm etiquette.
EVERYONE needs to understand that the fun, in discussing "does ISA matter; will ARM64 servers take off; these features will definitely (not) be in the A8; etc" is in the first few posts where the initial arguments on each side are made. And EVERYONE needs to appreciate that once each argument has been made twice, it's time to move on. We'll revise the issue in a year when we have a year's more data, but until then nothing is achieved by repeating the same point a third time or more, or switching from technical discussion to impugning motives, ad hominem attacks, and accusations of stupidity/incompetence/lying.

Let me end by giving just one example of all this. A few weeks ago Apple's Cyclone was being discussed. I said, based on my understanding (ie facts, opinions, my personal history), that this seemed like a 4-wide design to me. Reading the subsequence discussion, I've been converted to the opinion that it IS actually a six-wide design. That's valuable; that's how the system should work. I begin with a legitimate (but likely incorrect) opinion, and on seeing various good argument, I change to an opinion that's (likely) closer to correct.
BUT
I've also come to the opinion that the way Apple achieved this is not through a "simple" 6-wide design, but through a clustered design specifically two 3-wide clusters, presumably one basically a full 64-bit version of the Swift execution core, and the other slightly stripped down (missing division/sqrt and maybe various special purpose [OS, atomics, etc] instructions). This, I think, would have been interesting and pleasant for everyone to discuss, but I was reluctant to raise the matter given the unpleasant tone that so much of the discussion had taken.

So that's my attempt to bring things back on track.
September looks likely to be the most interesting CPU month in a long long time. Many people are going to want to say many things about a variety of new devices launching or about to be launched. It would be nice if we all treated what we learn/hypothesize about as entertaining and good-natured ribbing among friends, rather than a match to the death in which every piece of bad news for my tribe has to be crushed, along with those who support it, lest shame befall my god.
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TopicPosted ByDate
An ARM-based Mac article by GasseeYuhong Bao2014/08/03 02:24 PM
  An ARM-based Mac article by GasseeJoe User2014/08/03 04:51 PM
  An ARM-based Mac article by GasseeExophase2014/08/03 10:06 PM
    An ARM-based Mac article by GasseeMichael S2014/08/04 12:44 AM
      An ARM-based Mac article by GasseeExophase2014/08/04 08:45 AM
        DiscountsRob Thorpe2014/08/04 01:57 PM
          DiscountsAaron Spink2014/08/05 02:34 AM
        An ARM-based Mac article by GasseeAaron Spink2014/08/05 02:32 AM
          Current trajectory favors arm-book in futureanon2014/08/06 02:48 PM
            Current trajectory favors arm-book in futureUngo2014/08/06 05:34 PM
            Current trajectory favors arm-book in futureDoug S2014/08/06 09:21 PM
            The return to irrelevance.Alberto2014/08/07 03:04 AM
    An ARM-based Mac article by GasseeJacob Marley2014/08/04 04:07 AM
  An ARM-based Mac article by Gasseeanon2014/08/03 10:29 PM
    An ARM-based Mac article by GasseeExophase2014/08/03 11:05 PM
      An ARM-based Mac article by GasseeNiels Jørgen Kruse2014/08/03 11:32 PM
    An ARM-based Mac article by Gasseeex-apple2014/08/04 06:20 PM
      An ARM-based Mac article by GasseePatrick Chase2014/08/04 07:51 PM
        Mac Intel urban legendsWes Felter2014/08/05 08:19 PM
          Mac Intel urban legendsUngo2014/08/06 03:09 PM
  An ARM-based Mac article by Gasseejuanrga2014/08/04 02:05 AM
    Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Doug S2014/08/04 08:01 AM
      Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Exophase2014/08/04 03:20 PM
        Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Patrick Chase2014/08/04 07:46 PM
        Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Doug S2014/08/04 08:14 PM
          Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Aaron Spink2014/08/05 02:11 AM
            Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Patrick Chase2014/08/05 08:40 AM
      Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?vvid2014/08/05 09:51 AM
        Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Doug S2014/08/05 02:11 PM
          Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Doug S2014/08/05 02:15 PM
          Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?vvid2014/08/05 05:42 PM
            Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Ungo2014/08/06 06:04 PM
              Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?vvid2014/08/08 04:35 AM
                Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Ungo2014/08/08 02:58 PM
      Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?juanrga2014/08/05 10:27 AM
        Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Michael S2014/08/08 04:58 AM
          Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?juanrga2014/08/08 11:00 AM
            Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Klimax2014/08/08 01:17 PM
            Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Ungo2014/08/08 04:48 PM
              Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?juanrga2014/08/08 06:40 PM
                Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?David Kanter2014/08/08 11:51 PM
                  Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?juanrga2014/08/09 05:57 AM
                    Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Aaron Spink2014/08/09 07:43 AM
                      Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?juanrga2014/08/09 08:06 AM
                      Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Jukka Larja2014/08/17 04:40 AM
                  Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?dmcq2014/08/09 09:50 AM
                  Intel binning advantagePaul A. Clayton2014/08/09 10:58 AM
                  Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Ronald Maas2014/08/10 07:12 PM
                    Where is the profit?Paul A. Clayton2014/08/10 09:23 PM
                Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Ungo2014/08/11 03:02 PM
        Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?David Kanter2014/08/08 11:41 PM
          Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?juanrga2014/08/09 06:01 AM
            Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?dmcq2014/08/09 10:10 AM
              Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Exophase2014/08/10 10:20 AM
  Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?Mark Roulo2014/08/04 08:43 AM
    Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?Anon2014/08/04 01:17 PM
      Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?Kevin G2014/08/05 11:11 AM
        Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?Ricardo B2014/08/05 02:30 PM
    Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?Maxwell2014/08/04 07:55 PM
      Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?gallier22014/08/05 01:28 AM
        Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?Patrick Chase2014/08/05 08:48 AM
        Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?David Hess2014/08/05 04:59 PM
      Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?David Hess2014/08/05 04:56 PM
        Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?rwessel2014/08/05 05:40 PM
          Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?David Hess2014/08/06 11:59 AM
  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAlberto2014/08/06 03:51 AM
    A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechdmcq2014/08/06 05:01 AM
    A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjuanrga2014/08/06 11:55 AM
      A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/06 07:54 PM
        A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/06 07:57 PM
        A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechPatrick Chase2014/08/07 09:39 AM
        A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjuanrga2014/08/08 10:49 AM
          A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMegol2014/08/08 11:23 AM
            A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjuanrga2014/08/08 12:09 PM
              A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechKlimax2014/08/08 01:12 PM
                A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjuanrga2014/08/08 04:36 PM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechKlimax2014/08/09 01:31 AM
                    Actually, he did.iz2014/08/09 02:05 AM
                      Actually, he did.Klimax2014/08/09 02:36 AM
                        Actually, he did.Klimax2014/08/09 02:51 AM
                          Actually, he did.juanrga2014/08/09 05:26 AM
                            Actually, he did.Klimax2014/08/10 11:01 AM
                              Actually, he did.Wilco2014/08/10 12:29 PM
                                Actually, he did.Klimax2014/08/10 02:04 PM
                                  Actually, he did.Wilco2014/08/11 02:52 AM
                                    Actually, he did.Klimax2014/08/11 11:08 AM
              A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjoel2014/08/08 02:26 PM
                A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/09 11:01 AM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechKlimax2014/08/09 02:10 PM
                    x87 taxMichael S2014/08/09 02:37 PM
                      x87 taxKlimax2014/08/10 08:48 AM
                        Visual C and x87Eugene Nalimov2014/08/11 04:07 PM
                          Visual C and x87rwessel2014/08/11 06:32 PM
                            Visual C and x87Eugene Nalimov2014/08/12 09:29 AM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjoel2014/08/11 04:21 PM
            A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/09 12:29 AM
              A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMegol2014/08/09 04:22 AM
                A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/09 05:03 AM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechDavid Kanter2014/08/09 09:55 AM
                    Complexity = f (area, X, Y) not f(area)Paul A. Clayton2014/08/09 01:47 PM
                    x86 theoretical limit on maximum performance.Jouni Osmala2014/08/10 04:27 AM
                      x86 theoretical limit on maximum performance.dmcq2014/08/10 05:09 AM
                        x86 theoretical limit on maximum performance.Jouni Osmala2014/08/10 05:53 AM
                      x86 theoretical limit on maximum performance.juanrga2014/08/10 06:24 AM
                        x86 theoretical limit on maximum performance.Aaron Spink2014/08/10 07:24 AM
                          x86 theoretical limit on maximum performance.juanrga2014/08/11 07:05 PM
                            x86 theoretical limit on maximum performance.Aaron Spink2014/08/11 08:28 PM
                        Stop trollingDavid Kanter2014/08/10 09:12 PM
                          Stop trollingExophase2014/08/10 09:34 PM
                            Thunder chips dissipate 20 to 95 watts for SoCsjuanrga2014/08/11 06:38 PM
                              Thunder chips dissipate 20 to 95 watts for SoCsKlimax2014/08/11 10:03 PM
                          Is comparing to highest bin fair?Paul A. Clayton2014/08/11 01:37 AM
                            Is comparing to highest bin fair?David Kanter2014/08/13 12:18 PM
                              What kind of comparison was intended?Paul A. Clayton2014/08/13 04:18 PM
                          Stop ignoring datajuanrga2014/08/11 07:00 PM
                            Stop ignoring dataKlimax2014/08/11 10:06 PM
                              Seriously guys stop this anti-ARM charadejuanrga2014/08/12 02:21 AM
                                Seriously guys stop this anti-ARM charadeAaron Spink2014/08/12 02:24 AM
                                  Seriously guys stop this anti-ARM charadejuanrga2014/08/12 03:00 AM
                                    Seriously guys stop this anti-ARM charadeAaron Spink2014/08/12 03:08 AM
                                      Seriously guys stop this anti-ARM charadejuanrga2014/08/12 03:25 AM
                                Seriously guys stop this anti-ARM charadeKlimax2014/08/12 06:29 AM
                                  Seriously guys stop this anti-ARM charadejuanrga2014/08/12 11:19 AM
                                    Seriously guys stop this anti-ARM charadeKlimax2014/08/12 02:08 PM
                                Seriously guys stop this pro-ARM troll called JuanrgaJ Random Hacker2014/08/19 05:47 PM
                                  Seriously guys stop this pro-ARM troll called Juanrgaanon2014/08/20 03:46 PM
                            Design targets aren't dataDavid Kanter2014/08/13 01:07 PM
                              I agreejuanrga2014/08/13 03:16 PM
                                I agreeDavid Kanter2014/08/14 11:37 PM
                                  Not again, thanksjuanrga2014/08/15 03:22 AM
                                  I agreeRonald Maas2014/08/15 07:40 AM
                                    I agreeMichael S2014/08/15 07:55 AM
                                      I agreeDavid Kanter2014/08/15 09:43 AM
                                      I agreejuanrga2014/08/15 11:28 AM
                                    I agreeDavid Kanter2014/08/15 09:41 AM
                                      I agreejuanrga2014/08/15 11:39 AM
                                        I agreeKlimax2014/08/15 01:57 PM
                                        I agreeDavid Kanter2014/08/15 03:01 PM
                                          on ISAs and a plea for pieceMaynard Handley2014/08/15 04:41 PM
                                            on ISAs and a plea for piecejuanrga2014/08/16 03:15 AM
                                              on ISAs and a plea for pieceKlimax2014/08/16 03:56 AM
                                                on ISAs and a plea for piecejuanrga2014/08/16 04:39 AM
                                                  on ISAs and a plea for pieceKlimax2014/08/16 07:52 AM
                                                    on ISAs and a plea for piecejuanrga2014/08/16 11:21 AM
                                            on ISAs and a plea for pieceRicardo B2014/08/16 08:51 AM
                                              on ISAs and a plea for pieceMaynard Handley2014/08/16 09:45 AM
                                                on ISAs and a plea for pieceRicardo B2014/08/16 10:14 AM
                                              on ISAs and a plea for piecejuanrga2014/08/16 10:54 AM
                                                on ISAs and a plea for pieceRicardo B2014/08/16 11:32 AM
                                              on ISAs and a plea for pieceSymmetry2014/08/17 06:32 AM
                                                on ISAs and a plea for pieceRicardo B2014/08/17 07:07 AM
                                          K12Alexko2014/08/15 05:43 PM
                                            K12David Kanter2014/08/15 06:54 PM
                                              K12Alexko2014/08/16 03:14 AM
                                              K12juanrga2014/08/16 04:34 AM
                                                Sorry cannot share any detailsDavid Kanter2014/08/16 11:31 AM
                                                  K12, some guesses/leaksjuanrga2014/08/18 02:48 PM
                                          "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]juanrga2014/08/16 02:56 AM
                                            "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Kira2014/08/16 09:07 AM
                                              "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Maynard Handley2014/08/16 09:56 AM
                                                "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Doug S2014/08/16 10:28 AM
                                                  "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]juanrga2014/08/16 12:01 PM
                                                    "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]tarlinian2014/08/16 01:56 PM
                                                      "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]juanrga2014/08/17 02:29 PM
                                                        "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]tarlinian2014/08/17 03:08 PM
                                                          Metal pitchesDavid Kanter2014/08/17 03:20 PM
                                                          "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]juanrga2014/08/17 04:14 PM
                                              "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]juanrga2014/08/16 11:49 AM
                                            Intel manufacturing advantage is still hereDavid Kanter2014/08/16 11:27 AM
                                              Intel manufacturing advantage is still herejuanrga2014/08/16 12:45 PM
                                                Intel manufacturing advantage is still hereDavid Kanter2014/08/16 02:16 PM
                                                  Intel manufacturing advantage is still herejuanrga2014/08/17 02:52 PM
                                                    History is very usefulDavid Kanter2014/08/17 03:18 PM
                                                      History is very useful, but can not be used to make infallible predictionsjuanrga2014/08/17 04:33 PM
                                                        History is very useful, but can not be used to make infallible predictionsDavid Kanter2014/08/17 06:28 PM
                                                          History is very useful, but can not be used to make infallible predictionsPurana Archer2014/08/18 03:32 AM
                                                            History is very useful, but can not be used to make infallible predictionsGabriele Svelto2014/08/18 08:17 AM
                                                              History is very useful, but can not be used to make infallible predictionsMaynard Handley2014/08/18 01:36 PM
                                                                History is very useful, but can not be used to make infallible predictionsGabriele Svelto2014/08/19 01:53 AM
                                                                History is very useful, but can not be used to make infallible predictionstarlinian2014/08/19 01:14 PM
                                                        History is very useful, but can not be used to make infallible predictionsAaron Spink2014/08/17 10:10 PM
                                                        Intel has process advantage.Jouni Osmala2014/08/18 01:36 AM
                                                          Intel has process advantage.juanrga2014/08/19 03:00 AM
                                                            Intel has process advantage.Jouni Osmala2014/08/20 04:33 AM
                                                              Intel has process advantage.dmcq2014/08/20 08:17 AM
                                                                Intel has process advantage.Michael S2014/08/20 08:58 AM
                                                                  Intel has process advantage.dmcq2014/08/20 05:11 PM
                                                                Intel has process advantage.Jouni Osmala2014/08/20 11:49 PM
                                                                  Intel has process advantage.dmcq2014/08/21 01:51 AM
                                                                    Intel has process advantage.juanrga2014/08/21 03:05 AM
                                                                  Intel process advantage is shrinkingjuanrga2014/08/21 02:15 AM
                                                                    Could you please stopDaniel B2014/08/21 04:41 AM
                                                                      Could you please stopanon2014/08/21 09:20 AM
                                                                    Intel process advantage is shrinkingjuanrga2014/08/25 12:29 PM
                                                                      Intel process advantage is shrinkingKlimax2014/08/25 02:14 PM
                                                                        Intel process advantage is shrinkingjuanrga2014/08/25 03:11 PM
                                                                          Intel process advantage is shrinkingKlimax2014/08/25 10:12 PM
                                                                            Intel process advantage is shrinkingjuanrga2014/08/26 02:16 AM
                                                                              Intel process advantage is shrinkingKlimax2014/08/26 03:38 AM
                                                                                Intel process advantage is shrinkingjuanrga2014/08/26 03:52 AM
                                                                                  Intel process advantage is shrinkingKlimax2014/08/26 03:55 AM
                                                                                    Intel process advantage is shrinkingKlimax2014/08/26 04:07 AM
                                                                                      Intel process advantage is shrinkingjuanrga2014/08/26 04:40 AM
                                                                                        Intel process advantage is shrinkingAaron Spink2014/08/26 04:50 AM
                                                                                  Intel process advantage is shrinkingDavid Kanter2014/08/26 06:25 PM
                                                                                    Intel process advantage is shrinkingjuanrga2014/08/27 04:10 AM
                                                                                      Intel process advantage is shrinkingjuanrga2014/08/27 04:15 AM
                                                                            Intel process advantage is shrinkingMaynard Handley2014/08/26 02:49 PM
                                                                              Intel process advantage is shrinkingjuanrga2014/08/26 04:44 PM
                                                                              Intel process advantage is shrinkingKlimax2014/08/26 10:37 PM
                                                                      Intel process advantage is shrinkingDoug S2014/08/25 10:24 PM
                                                                        Intel process advantage is shrinkingdmcq2014/08/26 12:17 AM
                                                                        Intel process advantage is shrinkingjuanrga2014/08/26 02:22 AM
                                                                      Are you really that daft?Daniel B2014/08/26 05:00 AM
                                                                        Are you really that daft?Ronald Maas2014/08/26 04:37 PM
                                                                          Conservative, or just realistic?Daniel B2014/08/27 01:27 AM
                                                                      Some new data to scrap overMaynard Handley2014/08/27 01:34 PM
                                                                        Some new data to scrap overAaron Spink2014/08/27 02:21 PM
                                                                          Some new data to scrap overWilco2014/08/27 03:38 PM
                                                                            Some new data to scrap overAaron Spink2014/08/27 11:22 PM
                                                                            Some new data to scrap overgallier22014/08/28 02:26 AM
                                                                          Some new data to scrap overMaynard Handley2014/08/27 03:56 PM
                                                                            Some new data to scrap overAaron Spink2014/08/27 11:14 PM
                                                                            Some new data to scrap overgallier22014/08/28 02:42 AM
                                                                              Some new data to scrap overWilco2014/08/28 05:11 AM
                                                                        Some new data to scrap overjuanrga2014/08/27 04:35 PM
                                                                          Some new data to scrap overAaron Spink2014/08/28 12:04 AM
                                                                            Some new data to scrap overjuanrga2014/08/28 06:57 AM
                                                                        Some new data to scrap overRicardo B2014/08/29 09:14 AM
                                                Will there ever be a desktop Broadwell?Doug S2014/08/16 08:06 PM
                                                  Will there ever be a desktop Broadwell?Ricardo B2014/08/17 07:01 AM
                                                  Will there ever be a desktop Broadwell?juanrga2014/08/17 02:43 PM
                                            "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Aaron Spink2014/08/16 09:10 PM
                                              "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]dmcq2014/08/17 02:58 AM
                                              "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Maynard Handley2014/08/17 10:06 AM
                                                "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]tarlinian2014/08/17 10:40 AM
                                                  "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Maynard Handley2014/08/17 12:37 PM
                                                    "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]tarlinian2014/08/17 01:12 PM
                                                    "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Alberto2014/08/17 01:12 PM
                                                    "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Michael S2014/08/17 01:15 PM
                                                      "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Maynard Handley2014/08/17 01:45 PM
                                                        "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Michael S2014/08/17 02:13 PM
                                                        "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]David Kanter2014/08/17 03:29 PM
                                                          "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Maynard Handley2014/08/17 04:10 PM
                                                            "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]tarlinian2014/08/17 05:08 PM
                                                            "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Klimax2014/08/17 10:42 PM
                                                              "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Maynard Handley2014/08/18 01:21 PM
                                                            "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Alberto2014/08/18 04:19 AM
                                                            Die Size matters a LOT!Jouni Osmala2014/08/18 01:21 PM
                                        I agreeDavid Hess2014/08/17 03:24 PM
                                      I agreeRonald Maas2014/08/15 11:14 PM
                                        I agreedmcq2014/08/16 03:53 AM
                                          Beyond web serversjuanrga2014/08/16 04:55 AM
                                            Beyond web serversdmcq2014/08/16 05:40 AM
                                              Beyond web serversjuanrga2014/08/16 11:43 AM
                                                Beyond web serversAaron Spink2014/08/16 10:07 PM
                                                  Beyond web serversjuanrga2014/08/17 02:35 PM
                                                    Beyond web serversAaron Spink2014/08/17 04:24 PM
                                                      Beyond web serversdmcq2014/08/18 05:50 AM
                                                        Beyond web serversAaron Spink2014/08/18 03:58 PM
                                            Beyond web serversMichael S2014/08/16 12:43 PM
                                              Beyond web serversjuanrga2014/08/16 12:55 PM
                                                Beyond web serversMichael S2014/08/16 01:04 PM
                                                  Beyond web serversjuanrga2014/08/17 08:19 AM
                                                    Beyond web serversrwessel2014/08/17 09:34 AM
                                                    Beyond web serversDavid Kanter2014/08/17 10:23 AM
                                                      Beyond web serversMichael S2014/08/17 11:04 AM
                                                        Beyond web serversRicardo B2014/08/17 11:37 AM
                                                          Beyond web serversDavid Kanter2014/08/17 12:31 PM
                                                      Beyond web serversjuanrga2014/08/17 04:59 PM
                                                        Beyond web serversDavid Kanter2014/08/17 06:42 PM
                                                          Beyond web serversjuanrga2014/08/18 02:39 PM
                                              Beyond web serversGabriele Svelto2014/08/16 11:33 PM
                                                Beyond web serversRonald Maas2014/08/17 09:06 AM
                                                  Amdahl's law (NT)Michael S2014/08/17 11:08 AM
                                                Beyond web serversjuanrga2014/08/17 02:41 PM
                                      Xeon-class performancePaul A. Clayton2014/08/16 10:31 AM
                                        Xeon-class performancejuanrga2014/08/16 11:53 AM
                                          Xeon-class performanceKlimax2014/08/17 02:29 PM
                              Design targets aren't datadistantobserver2014/08/16 12:22 PM
                      x86 theoretical limit on maximum performance.Kevin G2014/08/10 10:26 PM
                    A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/10 05:25 PM
                      A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechDavid Kanter2014/08/10 09:15 PM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechExophase2014/08/10 10:03 PM
                          A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/11 12:33 AM
                            A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechnone2014/08/11 01:35 AM
                              A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechnope2014/08/11 02:05 AM
                              A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/11 04:02 AM
                            A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechRicardo B2014/08/11 04:04 AM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMegol2014/08/11 08:10 AM
                    A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/11 08:44 PM
              A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechGabriele Svelto2014/08/10 12:37 AM
                A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjuanrga2014/08/10 06:07 AM
                A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/11 05:13 AM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechGabriele Svelto2014/08/11 12:08 PM
                    A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/11 09:32 PM
              A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/10 03:11 AM
                A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/10 05:27 PM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/10 11:30 PM
                    A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/11 03:56 AM
                      A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/11 05:23 AM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/11 06:29 AM
                      A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMegol2014/08/11 08:30 AM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/11 08:46 PM
                          A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMegol2014/08/12 05:48 AM
                            A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMegol2014/08/13 09:25 AM
                              A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/13 04:55 PM
          A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechDavid Kanter2014/08/08 11:36 PM
            A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/09 12:12 AM
              A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechdmcq2014/08/09 03:00 AM
              A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/09 03:54 AM
                A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/10 09:50 PM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechExophase2014/08/10 10:35 PM
                    A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/11 04:20 AM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/11 12:48 AM
                    A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/11 04:10 AM
                      A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/11 05:43 AM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/11 06:21 AM
            A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjuanrga2014/08/09 06:38 AM
              ISA doesn't matterDavid Kanter2014/08/09 10:50 AM
                ISA doesn't matterBrett2014/08/09 11:51 AM
                  ISA doesn't matterLinus Torvalds2014/08/09 01:36 PM
                    ISA doesn't matterBrett2014/08/09 10:37 PM
                      ISA doesn't matterMichael S2014/08/10 02:21 AM
                        ISA doesn't matterdmcq2014/08/10 04:06 AM
                        ISA doesn't matterBrett2014/08/10 02:21 PM
                          ISA doesn't matteranon2014/08/10 09:03 PM
                            ISA doesn't matterBrett2014/08/10 11:45 PM
                              ISA doesn't matterAaron Spink2014/08/11 12:57 AM
                              ISA doesn't matteranon2014/08/11 04:18 AM
                                ISA doesn't matterBrett2014/08/16 03:38 PM
                              ISA doesn't matter -- PARMAook2014/08/26 11:50 AM
                          IBM fab business is losing money, the POWER line is notMark Roulo2014/08/11 07:44 AM
                    ISA doesn't matterTREZA2014/08/10 04:27 AM
                    ISA doesn't matterjuanrga2014/08/10 05:34 AM
                      ISA doesn't matterMichael S2014/08/10 06:01 AM
                        ISA does matterjuanrga2014/08/11 07:28 PM
                          ISA does matterMichael S2014/08/12 01:20 AM
                            ISA does matterjuanrga2014/08/12 02:38 AM
                              ISA does matterAaron Spink2014/08/12 03:06 AM
                                ISA does matterjuanrga2014/08/12 03:27 AM
                                  ISA does matterUngo2014/08/12 03:28 PM
                                    ISA does matterjuanrga2014/08/12 03:43 PM
                                      Banning of Juanrgagallier22014/08/13 08:56 AM
                                        bad idea (NT)Michael S2014/08/13 09:02 AM
                      ISA doesn't matterAaron Spink2014/08/10 07:48 AM
                      Best *Student* Paper Paul A. Clayton2014/08/10 12:31 PM
                ISA doesn't matterjuanrga2014/08/10 04:32 AM
                  ISA doesn't matterWilco2014/08/10 05:48 AM
                    ISA doesn't matterLinus Torvalds2014/08/10 11:38 AM
                      ISA doesn't matterUngo2014/08/11 03:59 PM
                ISA doesn't matterEtienne2014/08/11 07:17 AM
                  ISA doesn't matterGabriele Svelto2014/08/12 11:31 PM
                    ISA doesn't matterEtienne2014/08/13 03:09 AM
          A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/09 03:44 AM
            A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjuanrga2014/08/09 06:43 AM
              A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/09 10:17 AM
                A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/09 12:38 PM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAlberto2014/08/09 01:41 PM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechWilco2014/08/09 01:49 PM
                    A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAlberto2014/08/09 02:13 PM
                      A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechWilco2014/08/09 02:30 PM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAlberto2014/08/09 03:15 PM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechcarop2014/08/10 02:01 AM
                          A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechWilco2014/08/10 04:50 AM
                            A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/10 06:23 AM
                              A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechWilco2014/08/10 06:38 AM
                                Thank you (NT)Michael S2014/08/10 07:16 AM
                                Nope, Samsung ARM cpu was canned.Alberto2014/08/11 02:57 AM
                                  Nope, Samsung ARM cpu was canned.Wilco2014/08/11 03:14 AM
                                  Nope, Samsung ARM cpu was canned.David Hess2014/08/11 11:56 AM
                                    Nope, Samsung ARM cpu was canned.juanrga2014/08/11 07:32 PM
                              ISA does matterjuanrga2014/08/11 07:34 PM
                          A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjuanrga2014/08/10 06:19 AM
                      A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechWilco2014/08/09 03:10 PM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/10 03:01 AM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAlberto2014/08/10 06:17 AM
                A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjuanrga2014/08/10 03:40 AM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/10 04:27 AM
                    A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechWilco2014/08/10 05:00 AM
                      A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/10 05:50 AM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechWilco2014/08/10 06:51 AM
                      A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/10 08:04 AM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechWilco2014/08/10 08:30 AM
                          A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/10 08:46 AM
                            A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechWilco2014/08/11 05:37 PM
                              A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/12 01:58 AM
                                A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/12 02:11 AM
                                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/12 02:22 AM
                                    A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/12 02:40 AM
                                Applied Micro systems not benchmarkedDavid Kanter2014/08/13 11:29 AM
                                  Applied Micro systems not benchmarkedjuanrga2014/08/13 11:51 AM
                          A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/10 08:48 AM
                            A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/10 09:19 AM
                    A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjuanrga2014/08/10 06:00 AM
                      A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/10 06:18 AM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechJouni Osmala2014/08/10 02:12 PM
                          A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechdmcq2014/08/10 02:43 PM
          A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechRonald Maas2014/08/10 10:56 PM
            A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechpTmd2014/08/11 12:57 AM
            A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/11 01:02 AM
              ISA importance and bike sheddingPaul A. Clayton2014/08/11 02:39 AM
              A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechJouni Osmala2014/08/11 03:43 AM
                A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/11 05:56 AM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechJouni Osmala2014/08/11 12:14 PM
            ISA does matterjuanrga2014/08/11 07:48 PM
              ISA does matterUngo2014/08/12 04:37 PM
                ISA does matterjuanrga2014/08/13 05:18 AM
            Look at the system level, ISA doesn't matterDavid Kanter2014/08/13 11:47 AM
              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Mark Roulo2014/08/14 08:30 AM
                POWER guys commented on this years ago ...juanrga2014/08/16 04:29 AM
                  POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Maynard Handley2014/08/16 09:35 AM
                    POWER guys commented on this years ago ...juanrga2014/08/16 11:35 AM
                    POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Michael S2014/08/16 12:55 PM
                      POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Maynard Handley2014/08/16 02:24 PM
                        POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Michael S2014/08/16 02:54 PM
                          POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Maynard Handley2014/08/16 03:56 PM
                        POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Michael S2014/08/16 03:02 PM
                        POWER guys commented on this years ago ...David Kanter2014/08/16 04:09 PM
                        POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Ricardo B2014/08/16 05:43 PM
                          POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Maynard Handley2014/08/16 06:35 PM
                            POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Ricardo B2014/08/16 07:17 PM
                              OS/2Ricardo B2014/08/16 07:20 PM
                              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...rwessel2014/08/16 09:36 PM
                              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Maynard Handley2014/08/17 12:24 PM
                                POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Ricardo B2014/08/17 01:41 PM
                                POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Gabriele Svelto2014/08/18 02:20 AM
                          POWER guys commented on this years ago ...rwessel2014/08/16 09:43 PM
                          POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Michael S2014/08/16 11:30 PM
                            POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Ricardo B2014/08/17 06:28 AM
                        POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Aaron Spink2014/08/16 10:25 PM
                          POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/17 12:10 AM
                            POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Aaron Spink2014/08/17 12:42 AM
                              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/17 03:40 AM
                                POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Ricardo B2014/08/17 06:43 AM
                                  POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/17 07:53 AM
                                POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/17 07:42 AM
                              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Ronald Maas2014/08/17 09:57 AM
                                POWER guys commented on this years ago ...rwessel2014/08/17 10:40 AM
                                POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Ricardo B2014/08/17 12:06 PM
                                  POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Aaron Spink2014/08/17 01:56 PM
                                  POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Michael S2014/08/17 02:22 PM
                                    POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Ricardo B2014/08/17 03:14 PM
                                      cheap membarsMichael S2014/08/17 05:56 PM
                                        cheap membarsnksingh2014/08/21 11:34 AM
                                          cheap membarsMichael S2014/08/21 12:31 PM
                                            cheap membarsnksingh2014/08/21 02:54 PM
                                              cheap membarsMichael S2014/08/21 06:40 PM
                                            cheap membarsanon2014/08/21 11:17 PM
                                              cheap membarsMichael S2014/08/22 03:16 AM
                                                cheap membarsanon2014/08/22 07:33 AM
                                                  cheap membarsMichael S2014/08/22 08:18 AM
                                                    cheap membarsanon2014/08/22 05:50 PM
                                                      cheap membarsPatrick Chase2014/08/24 11:06 AM
                                                        cheap membarsPatrick Chase2014/08/24 11:11 AM
                                                          cheap membarsanon2014/08/24 07:21 PM
                                                            cheap membarsPatrick Chase2014/08/25 11:02 AM
                                                              cheap membarsdmcq2014/08/30 02:15 AM
                                      POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/17 10:55 PM
                              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Howard Chu2014/08/28 09:17 PM
                                POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Aaron Spink2014/08/29 07:35 AM
                                  POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Michael S2014/08/29 08:34 AM
                                  POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/29 03:49 PM
                                    POWER guys commented on this years ago ...foobar2014/08/30 09:26 PM
                                      POWER guys commented on this years ago ...dmcq2014/08/31 04:54 AM
                                        POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Wilco2014/08/31 12:52 PM
                          POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Maynard Handley2014/08/17 09:52 AM
                            POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Maynard Handley2014/08/17 10:31 AM
                              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Gabriele Svelto2014/08/18 02:11 AM
                            POWER guys commented on this years ago ...nksingh2014/08/25 03:55 AM
                            POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Patrick Chase2014/08/25 11:15 AM
                              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Patrick Chase2014/08/25 11:23 AM
                              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...nksingh2014/08/25 09:26 PM
                                POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Patrick Chase2014/08/25 11:32 PM
                                  POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Aaron Spink2014/08/26 04:41 AM
                                    POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/26 06:06 AM
                                      POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Aaron Spink2014/08/26 05:27 PM
                                        POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/26 11:02 PM
                                          POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Aaron Spink2014/08/26 11:51 PM
                                            POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/28 08:25 PM
                                              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/28 10:45 PM
                                              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...rwessel2014/08/29 01:14 AM
                                                POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/29 03:49 AM
                                                  POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Michael S2014/08/29 06:43 AM
                                          POWER guys commented on this years ago ...nksingh2014/08/26 11:54 PM
                                        POWER guys commented on this years ago ...dmcq2014/08/27 02:29 AM
                                          POWER guys commented on this years ago ...dmcq2014/08/27 08:16 AM
                                    Idiom recognition for LL/SC?Paul A. Clayton2014/08/26 01:28 PM
                        POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Gabriele Svelto2014/08/16 11:22 PM
                      AltiVec was Power6 (NT)Kira2014/08/17 11:33 AM
                        AltiVec was Power6Maynard Handley2014/08/17 12:29 PM
                          AltiVec was Power6Kira2014/08/17 12:53 PM
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