POWER guys commented on this years ago ...

By: Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org), August 17, 2014 10:31 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org) on August 17, 2014 9:52 am wrote:
> Aaron Spink (aaronspink.delete@this.notearthlink.net) on August 16, 2014 10:25 pm wrote:
> > Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org) on August 16, 2014 2:24 pm wrote:
> > > Likewise for synchronization primitives. The consensus as I read the literature is
> > > that load locked/store conditional is substantially easier to implement and get right
> > > than LOCK prefixes and the random mix of other things that Intel has. I'm guessing
> > > it's then also easier to build HW TM on top of load locked/store conditional.
> > > Beyond this, I'm guessing it's substantially harder to design for and verify
> > > the Intel memory model than the looser POWER and ARM memory models.
> > >
> > Actually, many software people have come to mostly loathe LL/SC and its been
> > involved an lots of bugs of either software or hardware over the years. The
> > truth is that LL/SC is pretty much only used for effectively CMPXHG.
> >
> > And its generally easier to design and verify for the x86 MOM than for any of the more relaxed
> > memory models. Esp from a software perspective. And from a performance perspective, because of
> > the software issues, the stricter MOMs tend to have better performance. AKA with a weaker MOM,
> > software developers tend to be much more cautious which leads to lower performance. So far, the
> > performance/strictness relationship with MOMs has been a case of Theory != Practice.
> >
> > Maynard, you've been around long enough that you've almost certainly seen Linus
> > rant #X on this topic. This is definitely one of those areas where I agree with
> > Linus. Make it easier for the programmers, hardware designers be dammed.
>
> Does it matter much that the only thing LL/SC is used for is CMPXHG? I always thought that WAS pretty much
> the entire point --- it gives the HW an easier way to implement CMPXHG, and if you want to go off and do anything
> extra with them, go right ahead, but the HW was not designed with those extra capabilities in mind.
>
> Linus is welcome to his rants; I've ranted plenty in my time. But I think we have to distinguish between
> - this is optimal for ME AND MY TEAM because we've created a particular
> OS model which is centered around x86 capabilities and
> - this is optimal for ANYONE working at the OS level and
> - this is optimal for the HW (and let's face it, OS developers and compiler writers are a very small
> fraction of developers, let alone users, so if doing things this way helps everyone else it's a win)
>
> Certainly I was not convinced, after we went through the last version of "inverted page tables suck"
> that the CONCEPT was intrinsically bad. I read a lot of material about it from various sources, and
> the pattern I saw was that the Linux guys had (for defensible reasons) a very specific idea in mind
> of how they wanted to implement page tables, and their complaints seemed more to come down to "we can't
> efficiently implement the x86 design pattern on this HW" than anything deeper than that.
>
> So getting back to LL/SC, was it considered in, say, the context of Alpha
> and Ultrix a terrible idea? Would the alternatives have been better?

To add to what I've said, perhaps our various different opinions about this issue reflect our real world experiences? If you come from a Windows or Linux background where it's long been the case that, let's say, inexperienced programmers are expected to write device drivers and similar sophisticated code, then your experience is that such code is problematic and generally sucks, and that anything the HW can do to help is welcome.

If, on the other hand, you come from the Apple tradition (or, equivalently the IBM POWER tradition) the general history has been that competent developers inside the company handle the drivers (and everything else from the OS to the dev tools), that 3rd party developers are encouraged/required to use provided APIs/SPIs to express their intent (rather than going to the metal), and there just isn't this history of problems.

Which suggests that Apple is probably just fine sticking with a version of the ARM memory model that meets spec and is no stronger, whereas the other ARM vendors may encounter difficulties, unless they can persuade Linaro to provide APIs/SPIs that do everything required, and can persuade 3rd party developers to move to a more modern way of coding.

How does this play out in the Android world? On the one hand you have as big a collection of inexperienced cowboys as you might imagine in the various phone vendors; on the other you hand Google at the top providing a set of APIs and best practices and basically acting like MS, only the MS of today (which has learned through bitter experience the consequences of leaving low-level driver development to others), not the MS of 1993.

I admit to not following Android obsessively, but I love and look for a good schadenfreude experience as much as anyone, and I'm unaware of any major (or even minor) disasters in the Android phone space that can be traced back to the ARM weaker memory model and developers not properly handling it.
Which suggests that the problem was perhaps more a consequence of extremely constrained resources in the 90s (leading to metal-level driver development on Windows), and perhaps an ongoing unhealthy level of obsession with performance in mainstream Linux (as opposed to Android) today, leading to a culture that disdains using APIs/SPIs and the sort of abstraction in driver development that we see in Apple's IOKit and Windows' and Android's equivalents.
< Previous Post in ThreadNext Post in Thread >
TopicPosted ByDate
An ARM-based Mac article by GasseeYuhong Bao2014/08/03 02:24 PM
  An ARM-based Mac article by GasseeJoe User2014/08/03 04:51 PM
  An ARM-based Mac article by GasseeExophase2014/08/03 10:06 PM
    An ARM-based Mac article by GasseeMichael S2014/08/04 12:44 AM
      An ARM-based Mac article by GasseeExophase2014/08/04 08:45 AM
        DiscountsRob Thorpe2014/08/04 01:57 PM
          DiscountsAaron Spink2014/08/05 02:34 AM
        An ARM-based Mac article by GasseeAaron Spink2014/08/05 02:32 AM
          Current trajectory favors arm-book in futureanon2014/08/06 02:48 PM
            Current trajectory favors arm-book in futureUngo2014/08/06 05:34 PM
            Current trajectory favors arm-book in futureDoug S2014/08/06 09:21 PM
            The return to irrelevance.Alberto2014/08/07 03:04 AM
    An ARM-based Mac article by GasseeJacob Marley2014/08/04 04:07 AM
  An ARM-based Mac article by Gasseeanon2014/08/03 10:29 PM
    An ARM-based Mac article by GasseeExophase2014/08/03 11:05 PM
      An ARM-based Mac article by GasseeNiels Jørgen Kruse2014/08/03 11:32 PM
    An ARM-based Mac article by Gasseeex-apple2014/08/04 06:20 PM
      An ARM-based Mac article by GasseePatrick Chase2014/08/04 07:51 PM
        Mac Intel urban legendsWes Felter2014/08/05 08:19 PM
          Mac Intel urban legendsUngo2014/08/06 03:09 PM
  An ARM-based Mac article by Gasseejuanrga2014/08/04 02:05 AM
    Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Doug S2014/08/04 08:01 AM
      Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Exophase2014/08/04 03:20 PM
        Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Patrick Chase2014/08/04 07:46 PM
        Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Doug S2014/08/04 08:14 PM
          Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Aaron Spink2014/08/05 02:11 AM
            Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Patrick Chase2014/08/05 08:40 AM
      Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?vvid2014/08/05 09:51 AM
        Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Doug S2014/08/05 02:11 PM
          Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Doug S2014/08/05 02:15 PM
          Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?vvid2014/08/05 05:42 PM
            Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Ungo2014/08/06 06:04 PM
              Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?vvid2014/08/08 04:35 AM
                Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Ungo2014/08/08 02:58 PM
      Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?juanrga2014/08/05 10:27 AM
        Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Michael S2014/08/08 04:58 AM
          Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?juanrga2014/08/08 11:00 AM
            Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Klimax2014/08/08 01:17 PM
            Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Ungo2014/08/08 04:48 PM
              Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?juanrga2014/08/08 06:40 PM
                Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?David Kanter2014/08/08 11:51 PM
                  Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?juanrga2014/08/09 05:57 AM
                    Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Aaron Spink2014/08/09 07:43 AM
                      Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?juanrga2014/08/09 08:06 AM
                      Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Jukka Larja2014/08/17 04:40 AM
                  Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?dmcq2014/08/09 09:50 AM
                  Intel binning advantagePaul A. Clayton2014/08/09 10:58 AM
                  Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Ronald Maas2014/08/10 07:12 PM
                    Where is the profit?Paul A. Clayton2014/08/10 09:23 PM
                Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Ungo2014/08/11 03:02 PM
        Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?David Kanter2014/08/08 11:41 PM
          Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?juanrga2014/08/09 06:01 AM
            Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?dmcq2014/08/09 10:10 AM
              Why either or, why not both for the Pro line?Exophase2014/08/10 10:20 AM
  Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?Mark Roulo2014/08/04 08:43 AM
    Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?Anon2014/08/04 01:17 PM
      Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?Kevin G2014/08/05 11:11 AM
        Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?Ricardo B2014/08/05 02:30 PM
    Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?Maxwell2014/08/04 07:55 PM
      Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?gallier22014/08/05 01:28 AM
        Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?Patrick Chase2014/08/05 08:48 AM
        Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?David Hess2014/08/05 04:59 PM
      Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?David Hess2014/08/05 04:56 PM
        Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?rwessel2014/08/05 05:40 PM
          Shouldn't Gassee get his basic facts right?David Hess2014/08/06 11:59 AM
  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAlberto2014/08/06 03:51 AM
    A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechdmcq2014/08/06 05:01 AM
    A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjuanrga2014/08/06 11:55 AM
      A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/06 07:54 PM
        A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/06 07:57 PM
        A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechPatrick Chase2014/08/07 09:39 AM
        A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjuanrga2014/08/08 10:49 AM
          A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMegol2014/08/08 11:23 AM
            A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjuanrga2014/08/08 12:09 PM
              A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechKlimax2014/08/08 01:12 PM
                A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjuanrga2014/08/08 04:36 PM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechKlimax2014/08/09 01:31 AM
                    Actually, he did.iz2014/08/09 02:05 AM
                      Actually, he did.Klimax2014/08/09 02:36 AM
                        Actually, he did.Klimax2014/08/09 02:51 AM
                          Actually, he did.juanrga2014/08/09 05:26 AM
                            Actually, he did.Klimax2014/08/10 11:01 AM
                              Actually, he did.Wilco2014/08/10 12:29 PM
                                Actually, he did.Klimax2014/08/10 02:04 PM
                                  Actually, he did.Wilco2014/08/11 02:52 AM
                                    Actually, he did.Klimax2014/08/11 11:08 AM
              A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjoel2014/08/08 02:26 PM
                A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/09 11:01 AM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechKlimax2014/08/09 02:10 PM
                    x87 taxMichael S2014/08/09 02:37 PM
                      x87 taxKlimax2014/08/10 08:48 AM
                        Visual C and x87Eugene Nalimov2014/08/11 04:07 PM
                          Visual C and x87rwessel2014/08/11 06:32 PM
                            Visual C and x87Eugene Nalimov2014/08/12 09:29 AM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjoel2014/08/11 04:21 PM
            A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/09 12:29 AM
              A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMegol2014/08/09 04:22 AM
                A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/09 05:03 AM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechDavid Kanter2014/08/09 09:55 AM
                    Complexity = f (area, X, Y) not f(area)Paul A. Clayton2014/08/09 01:47 PM
                    x86 theoretical limit on maximum performance.Jouni Osmala2014/08/10 04:27 AM
                      x86 theoretical limit on maximum performance.dmcq2014/08/10 05:09 AM
                        x86 theoretical limit on maximum performance.Jouni Osmala2014/08/10 05:53 AM
                      x86 theoretical limit on maximum performance.juanrga2014/08/10 06:24 AM
                        x86 theoretical limit on maximum performance.Aaron Spink2014/08/10 07:24 AM
                          x86 theoretical limit on maximum performance.juanrga2014/08/11 07:05 PM
                            x86 theoretical limit on maximum performance.Aaron Spink2014/08/11 08:28 PM
                        Stop trollingDavid Kanter2014/08/10 09:12 PM
                          Stop trollingExophase2014/08/10 09:34 PM
                            Thunder chips dissipate 20 to 95 watts for SoCsjuanrga2014/08/11 06:38 PM
                              Thunder chips dissipate 20 to 95 watts for SoCsKlimax2014/08/11 10:03 PM
                          Is comparing to highest bin fair?Paul A. Clayton2014/08/11 01:37 AM
                            Is comparing to highest bin fair?David Kanter2014/08/13 12:18 PM
                              What kind of comparison was intended?Paul A. Clayton2014/08/13 04:18 PM
                          Stop ignoring datajuanrga2014/08/11 07:00 PM
                            Stop ignoring dataKlimax2014/08/11 10:06 PM
                              Seriously guys stop this anti-ARM charadejuanrga2014/08/12 02:21 AM
                                Seriously guys stop this anti-ARM charadeAaron Spink2014/08/12 02:24 AM
                                  Seriously guys stop this anti-ARM charadejuanrga2014/08/12 03:00 AM
                                    Seriously guys stop this anti-ARM charadeAaron Spink2014/08/12 03:08 AM
                                      Seriously guys stop this anti-ARM charadejuanrga2014/08/12 03:25 AM
                                Seriously guys stop this anti-ARM charadeKlimax2014/08/12 06:29 AM
                                  Seriously guys stop this anti-ARM charadejuanrga2014/08/12 11:19 AM
                                    Seriously guys stop this anti-ARM charadeKlimax2014/08/12 02:08 PM
                                Seriously guys stop this pro-ARM troll called JuanrgaJ Random Hacker2014/08/19 05:47 PM
                                  Seriously guys stop this pro-ARM troll called Juanrgaanon2014/08/20 03:46 PM
                            Design targets aren't dataDavid Kanter2014/08/13 01:07 PM
                              I agreejuanrga2014/08/13 03:16 PM
                                I agreeDavid Kanter2014/08/14 11:37 PM
                                  Not again, thanksjuanrga2014/08/15 03:22 AM
                                  I agreeRonald Maas2014/08/15 07:40 AM
                                    I agreeMichael S2014/08/15 07:55 AM
                                      I agreeDavid Kanter2014/08/15 09:43 AM
                                      I agreejuanrga2014/08/15 11:28 AM
                                    I agreeDavid Kanter2014/08/15 09:41 AM
                                      I agreejuanrga2014/08/15 11:39 AM
                                        I agreeKlimax2014/08/15 01:57 PM
                                        I agreeDavid Kanter2014/08/15 03:01 PM
                                          on ISAs and a plea for pieceMaynard Handley2014/08/15 04:41 PM
                                            on ISAs and a plea for piecejuanrga2014/08/16 03:15 AM
                                              on ISAs and a plea for pieceKlimax2014/08/16 03:56 AM
                                                on ISAs and a plea for piecejuanrga2014/08/16 04:39 AM
                                                  on ISAs and a plea for pieceKlimax2014/08/16 07:52 AM
                                                    on ISAs and a plea for piecejuanrga2014/08/16 11:21 AM
                                            on ISAs and a plea for pieceRicardo B2014/08/16 08:51 AM
                                              on ISAs and a plea for pieceMaynard Handley2014/08/16 09:45 AM
                                                on ISAs and a plea for pieceRicardo B2014/08/16 10:14 AM
                                              on ISAs and a plea for piecejuanrga2014/08/16 10:54 AM
                                                on ISAs and a plea for pieceRicardo B2014/08/16 11:32 AM
                                              on ISAs and a plea for pieceSymmetry2014/08/17 06:32 AM
                                                on ISAs and a plea for pieceRicardo B2014/08/17 07:07 AM
                                          K12Alexko2014/08/15 05:43 PM
                                            K12David Kanter2014/08/15 06:54 PM
                                              K12Alexko2014/08/16 03:14 AM
                                              K12juanrga2014/08/16 04:34 AM
                                                Sorry cannot share any detailsDavid Kanter2014/08/16 11:31 AM
                                                  K12, some guesses/leaksjuanrga2014/08/18 02:48 PM
                                          "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]juanrga2014/08/16 02:56 AM
                                            "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Kira2014/08/16 09:07 AM
                                              "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Maynard Handley2014/08/16 09:56 AM
                                                "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Doug S2014/08/16 10:28 AM
                                                  "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]juanrga2014/08/16 12:01 PM
                                                    "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]tarlinian2014/08/16 01:56 PM
                                                      "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]juanrga2014/08/17 02:29 PM
                                                        "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]tarlinian2014/08/17 03:08 PM
                                                          Metal pitchesDavid Kanter2014/08/17 03:20 PM
                                                          "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]juanrga2014/08/17 04:14 PM
                                              "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]juanrga2014/08/16 11:49 AM
                                            Intel manufacturing advantage is still hereDavid Kanter2014/08/16 11:27 AM
                                              Intel manufacturing advantage is still herejuanrga2014/08/16 12:45 PM
                                                Intel manufacturing advantage is still hereDavid Kanter2014/08/16 02:16 PM
                                                  Intel manufacturing advantage is still herejuanrga2014/08/17 02:52 PM
                                                    History is very usefulDavid Kanter2014/08/17 03:18 PM
                                                      History is very useful, but can not be used to make infallible predictionsjuanrga2014/08/17 04:33 PM
                                                        History is very useful, but can not be used to make infallible predictionsDavid Kanter2014/08/17 06:28 PM
                                                          History is very useful, but can not be used to make infallible predictionsPurana Archer2014/08/18 03:32 AM
                                                            History is very useful, but can not be used to make infallible predictionsGabriele Svelto2014/08/18 08:17 AM
                                                              History is very useful, but can not be used to make infallible predictionsMaynard Handley2014/08/18 01:36 PM
                                                                History is very useful, but can not be used to make infallible predictionsGabriele Svelto2014/08/19 01:53 AM
                                                                History is very useful, but can not be used to make infallible predictionstarlinian2014/08/19 01:14 PM
                                                        History is very useful, but can not be used to make infallible predictionsAaron Spink2014/08/17 10:10 PM
                                                        Intel has process advantage.Jouni Osmala2014/08/18 01:36 AM
                                                          Intel has process advantage.juanrga2014/08/19 03:00 AM
                                                            Intel has process advantage.Jouni Osmala2014/08/20 04:33 AM
                                                              Intel has process advantage.dmcq2014/08/20 08:17 AM
                                                                Intel has process advantage.Michael S2014/08/20 08:58 AM
                                                                  Intel has process advantage.dmcq2014/08/20 05:11 PM
                                                                Intel has process advantage.Jouni Osmala2014/08/20 11:49 PM
                                                                  Intel has process advantage.dmcq2014/08/21 01:51 AM
                                                                    Intel has process advantage.juanrga2014/08/21 03:05 AM
                                                                  Intel process advantage is shrinkingjuanrga2014/08/21 02:15 AM
                                                                    Could you please stopDaniel B2014/08/21 04:41 AM
                                                                      Could you please stopanon2014/08/21 09:20 AM
                                                                    Intel process advantage is shrinkingjuanrga2014/08/25 12:29 PM
                                                                      Intel process advantage is shrinkingKlimax2014/08/25 02:14 PM
                                                                        Intel process advantage is shrinkingjuanrga2014/08/25 03:11 PM
                                                                          Intel process advantage is shrinkingKlimax2014/08/25 10:12 PM
                                                                            Intel process advantage is shrinkingjuanrga2014/08/26 02:16 AM
                                                                              Intel process advantage is shrinkingKlimax2014/08/26 03:38 AM
                                                                                Intel process advantage is shrinkingjuanrga2014/08/26 03:52 AM
                                                                                  Intel process advantage is shrinkingKlimax2014/08/26 03:55 AM
                                                                                    Intel process advantage is shrinkingKlimax2014/08/26 04:07 AM
                                                                                      Intel process advantage is shrinkingjuanrga2014/08/26 04:40 AM
                                                                                        Intel process advantage is shrinkingAaron Spink2014/08/26 04:50 AM
                                                                                  Intel process advantage is shrinkingDavid Kanter2014/08/26 06:25 PM
                                                                                    Intel process advantage is shrinkingjuanrga2014/08/27 04:10 AM
                                                                                      Intel process advantage is shrinkingjuanrga2014/08/27 04:15 AM
                                                                            Intel process advantage is shrinkingMaynard Handley2014/08/26 02:49 PM
                                                                              Intel process advantage is shrinkingjuanrga2014/08/26 04:44 PM
                                                                              Intel process advantage is shrinkingKlimax2014/08/26 10:37 PM
                                                                      Intel process advantage is shrinkingDoug S2014/08/25 10:24 PM
                                                                        Intel process advantage is shrinkingdmcq2014/08/26 12:17 AM
                                                                        Intel process advantage is shrinkingjuanrga2014/08/26 02:22 AM
                                                                      Are you really that daft?Daniel B2014/08/26 05:00 AM
                                                                        Are you really that daft?Ronald Maas2014/08/26 04:37 PM
                                                                          Conservative, or just realistic?Daniel B2014/08/27 01:27 AM
                                                                      Some new data to scrap overMaynard Handley2014/08/27 01:34 PM
                                                                        Some new data to scrap overAaron Spink2014/08/27 02:21 PM
                                                                          Some new data to scrap overWilco2014/08/27 03:38 PM
                                                                            Some new data to scrap overAaron Spink2014/08/27 11:22 PM
                                                                            Some new data to scrap overgallier22014/08/28 02:26 AM
                                                                          Some new data to scrap overMaynard Handley2014/08/27 03:56 PM
                                                                            Some new data to scrap overAaron Spink2014/08/27 11:14 PM
                                                                            Some new data to scrap overgallier22014/08/28 02:42 AM
                                                                              Some new data to scrap overWilco2014/08/28 05:11 AM
                                                                        Some new data to scrap overjuanrga2014/08/27 04:35 PM
                                                                          Some new data to scrap overAaron Spink2014/08/28 12:04 AM
                                                                            Some new data to scrap overjuanrga2014/08/28 06:57 AM
                                                                        Some new data to scrap overRicardo B2014/08/29 09:14 AM
                                                Will there ever be a desktop Broadwell?Doug S2014/08/16 08:06 PM
                                                  Will there ever be a desktop Broadwell?Ricardo B2014/08/17 07:01 AM
                                                  Will there ever be a desktop Broadwell?juanrga2014/08/17 02:43 PM
                                            "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Aaron Spink2014/08/16 09:10 PM
                                              "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]dmcq2014/08/17 02:58 AM
                                              "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Maynard Handley2014/08/17 10:06 AM
                                                "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]tarlinian2014/08/17 10:40 AM
                                                  "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Maynard Handley2014/08/17 12:37 PM
                                                    "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]tarlinian2014/08/17 01:12 PM
                                                    "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Alberto2014/08/17 01:12 PM
                                                    "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Michael S2014/08/17 01:15 PM
                                                      "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Maynard Handley2014/08/17 01:45 PM
                                                        "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Michael S2014/08/17 02:13 PM
                                                        "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]David Kanter2014/08/17 03:29 PM
                                                          "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Maynard Handley2014/08/17 04:10 PM
                                                            "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]tarlinian2014/08/17 05:08 PM
                                                            "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Klimax2014/08/17 10:42 PM
                                                              "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Maynard Handley2014/08/18 01:21 PM
                                                            "Intel no longer has an obvious lead in process technology" [electronicsweekly]Alberto2014/08/18 04:19 AM
                                                            Die Size matters a LOT!Jouni Osmala2014/08/18 01:21 PM
                                        I agreeDavid Hess2014/08/17 03:24 PM
                                      I agreeRonald Maas2014/08/15 11:14 PM
                                        I agreedmcq2014/08/16 03:53 AM
                                          Beyond web serversjuanrga2014/08/16 04:55 AM
                                            Beyond web serversdmcq2014/08/16 05:40 AM
                                              Beyond web serversjuanrga2014/08/16 11:43 AM
                                                Beyond web serversAaron Spink2014/08/16 10:07 PM
                                                  Beyond web serversjuanrga2014/08/17 02:35 PM
                                                    Beyond web serversAaron Spink2014/08/17 04:24 PM
                                                      Beyond web serversdmcq2014/08/18 05:50 AM
                                                        Beyond web serversAaron Spink2014/08/18 03:58 PM
                                            Beyond web serversMichael S2014/08/16 12:43 PM
                                              Beyond web serversjuanrga2014/08/16 12:55 PM
                                                Beyond web serversMichael S2014/08/16 01:04 PM
                                                  Beyond web serversjuanrga2014/08/17 08:19 AM
                                                    Beyond web serversrwessel2014/08/17 09:34 AM
                                                    Beyond web serversDavid Kanter2014/08/17 10:23 AM
                                                      Beyond web serversMichael S2014/08/17 11:04 AM
                                                        Beyond web serversRicardo B2014/08/17 11:37 AM
                                                          Beyond web serversDavid Kanter2014/08/17 12:31 PM
                                                      Beyond web serversjuanrga2014/08/17 04:59 PM
                                                        Beyond web serversDavid Kanter2014/08/17 06:42 PM
                                                          Beyond web serversjuanrga2014/08/18 02:39 PM
                                              Beyond web serversGabriele Svelto2014/08/16 11:33 PM
                                                Beyond web serversRonald Maas2014/08/17 09:06 AM
                                                  Amdahl's law (NT)Michael S2014/08/17 11:08 AM
                                                Beyond web serversjuanrga2014/08/17 02:41 PM
                                      Xeon-class performancePaul A. Clayton2014/08/16 10:31 AM
                                        Xeon-class performancejuanrga2014/08/16 11:53 AM
                                          Xeon-class performanceKlimax2014/08/17 02:29 PM
                              Design targets aren't datadistantobserver2014/08/16 12:22 PM
                      x86 theoretical limit on maximum performance.Kevin G2014/08/10 10:26 PM
                    A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/10 05:25 PM
                      A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechDavid Kanter2014/08/10 09:15 PM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechExophase2014/08/10 10:03 PM
                          A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/11 12:33 AM
                            A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechnone2014/08/11 01:35 AM
                              A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechnope2014/08/11 02:05 AM
                              A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/11 04:02 AM
                            A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechRicardo B2014/08/11 04:04 AM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMegol2014/08/11 08:10 AM
                    A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/11 08:44 PM
              A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechGabriele Svelto2014/08/10 12:37 AM
                A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjuanrga2014/08/10 06:07 AM
                A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/11 05:13 AM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechGabriele Svelto2014/08/11 12:08 PM
                    A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/11 09:32 PM
              A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/10 03:11 AM
                A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/10 05:27 PM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/10 11:30 PM
                    A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/11 03:56 AM
                      A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/11 05:23 AM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/11 06:29 AM
                      A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMegol2014/08/11 08:30 AM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/11 08:46 PM
                          A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMegol2014/08/12 05:48 AM
                            A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMegol2014/08/13 09:25 AM
                              A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/13 04:55 PM
          A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechDavid Kanter2014/08/08 11:36 PM
            A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/09 12:12 AM
              A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechdmcq2014/08/09 03:00 AM
              A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/09 03:54 AM
                A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/10 09:50 PM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechExophase2014/08/10 10:35 PM
                    A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/11 04:20 AM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/11 12:48 AM
                    A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/11 04:10 AM
                      A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/11 05:43 AM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/11 06:21 AM
            A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjuanrga2014/08/09 06:38 AM
              ISA doesn't matterDavid Kanter2014/08/09 10:50 AM
                ISA doesn't matterBrett2014/08/09 11:51 AM
                  ISA doesn't matterLinus Torvalds2014/08/09 01:36 PM
                    ISA doesn't matterBrett2014/08/09 10:37 PM
                      ISA doesn't matterMichael S2014/08/10 02:21 AM
                        ISA doesn't matterdmcq2014/08/10 04:06 AM
                        ISA doesn't matterBrett2014/08/10 02:21 PM
                          ISA doesn't matteranon2014/08/10 09:03 PM
                            ISA doesn't matterBrett2014/08/10 11:45 PM
                              ISA doesn't matterAaron Spink2014/08/11 12:57 AM
                              ISA doesn't matteranon2014/08/11 04:18 AM
                                ISA doesn't matterBrett2014/08/16 03:38 PM
                              ISA doesn't matter -- PARMAook2014/08/26 11:50 AM
                          IBM fab business is losing money, the POWER line is notMark Roulo2014/08/11 07:44 AM
                    ISA doesn't matterTREZA2014/08/10 04:27 AM
                    ISA doesn't matterjuanrga2014/08/10 05:34 AM
                      ISA doesn't matterMichael S2014/08/10 06:01 AM
                        ISA does matterjuanrga2014/08/11 07:28 PM
                          ISA does matterMichael S2014/08/12 01:20 AM
                            ISA does matterjuanrga2014/08/12 02:38 AM
                              ISA does matterAaron Spink2014/08/12 03:06 AM
                                ISA does matterjuanrga2014/08/12 03:27 AM
                                  ISA does matterUngo2014/08/12 03:28 PM
                                    ISA does matterjuanrga2014/08/12 03:43 PM
                                      Banning of Juanrgagallier22014/08/13 08:56 AM
                                        bad idea (NT)Michael S2014/08/13 09:02 AM
                      ISA doesn't matterAaron Spink2014/08/10 07:48 AM
                      Best *Student* Paper Paul A. Clayton2014/08/10 12:31 PM
                ISA doesn't matterjuanrga2014/08/10 04:32 AM
                  ISA doesn't matterWilco2014/08/10 05:48 AM
                    ISA doesn't matterLinus Torvalds2014/08/10 11:38 AM
                      ISA doesn't matterUngo2014/08/11 03:59 PM
                ISA doesn't matterEtienne2014/08/11 07:17 AM
                  ISA doesn't matterGabriele Svelto2014/08/12 11:31 PM
                    ISA doesn't matterEtienne2014/08/13 03:09 AM
          A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/09 03:44 AM
            A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjuanrga2014/08/09 06:43 AM
              A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechanon2014/08/09 10:17 AM
                A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/09 12:38 PM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAlberto2014/08/09 01:41 PM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechWilco2014/08/09 01:49 PM
                    A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAlberto2014/08/09 02:13 PM
                      A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechWilco2014/08/09 02:30 PM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAlberto2014/08/09 03:15 PM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechcarop2014/08/10 02:01 AM
                          A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechWilco2014/08/10 04:50 AM
                            A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/10 06:23 AM
                              A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechWilco2014/08/10 06:38 AM
                                Thank you (NT)Michael S2014/08/10 07:16 AM
                                Nope, Samsung ARM cpu was canned.Alberto2014/08/11 02:57 AM
                                  Nope, Samsung ARM cpu was canned.Wilco2014/08/11 03:14 AM
                                  Nope, Samsung ARM cpu was canned.David Hess2014/08/11 11:56 AM
                                    Nope, Samsung ARM cpu was canned.juanrga2014/08/11 07:32 PM
                              ISA does matterjuanrga2014/08/11 07:34 PM
                          A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjuanrga2014/08/10 06:19 AM
                      A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechWilco2014/08/09 03:10 PM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/10 03:01 AM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAlberto2014/08/10 06:17 AM
                A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjuanrga2014/08/10 03:40 AM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/10 04:27 AM
                    A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechWilco2014/08/10 05:00 AM
                      A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/10 05:50 AM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechWilco2014/08/10 06:51 AM
                      A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/10 08:04 AM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechWilco2014/08/10 08:30 AM
                          A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/10 08:46 AM
                            A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechWilco2014/08/11 05:37 PM
                              A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/12 01:58 AM
                                A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/12 02:11 AM
                                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/12 02:22 AM
                                    A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/12 02:40 AM
                                Applied Micro systems not benchmarkedDavid Kanter2014/08/13 11:29 AM
                                  Applied Micro systems not benchmarkedjuanrga2014/08/13 11:51 AM
                          A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/10 08:48 AM
                            A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/10 09:19 AM
                    A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechjuanrga2014/08/10 06:00 AM
                      A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/10 06:18 AM
                        A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechJouni Osmala2014/08/10 02:12 PM
                          A strong answer to this crap article on Extremetechdmcq2014/08/10 02:43 PM
          A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechRonald Maas2014/08/10 10:56 PM
            A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechpTmd2014/08/11 12:57 AM
            A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechAaron Spink2014/08/11 01:02 AM
              ISA importance and bike sheddingPaul A. Clayton2014/08/11 02:39 AM
              A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechJouni Osmala2014/08/11 03:43 AM
                A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechMichael S2014/08/11 05:56 AM
                  A strong answer to this crap article on ExtremetechJouni Osmala2014/08/11 12:14 PM
            ISA does matterjuanrga2014/08/11 07:48 PM
              ISA does matterUngo2014/08/12 04:37 PM
                ISA does matterjuanrga2014/08/13 05:18 AM
            Look at the system level, ISA doesn't matterDavid Kanter2014/08/13 11:47 AM
              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Mark Roulo2014/08/14 08:30 AM
                POWER guys commented on this years ago ...juanrga2014/08/16 04:29 AM
                  POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Maynard Handley2014/08/16 09:35 AM
                    POWER guys commented on this years ago ...juanrga2014/08/16 11:35 AM
                    POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Michael S2014/08/16 12:55 PM
                      POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Maynard Handley2014/08/16 02:24 PM
                        POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Michael S2014/08/16 02:54 PM
                          POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Maynard Handley2014/08/16 03:56 PM
                        POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Michael S2014/08/16 03:02 PM
                        POWER guys commented on this years ago ...David Kanter2014/08/16 04:09 PM
                        POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Ricardo B2014/08/16 05:43 PM
                          POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Maynard Handley2014/08/16 06:35 PM
                            POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Ricardo B2014/08/16 07:17 PM
                              OS/2Ricardo B2014/08/16 07:20 PM
                              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...rwessel2014/08/16 09:36 PM
                              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Maynard Handley2014/08/17 12:24 PM
                                POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Ricardo B2014/08/17 01:41 PM
                                POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Gabriele Svelto2014/08/18 02:20 AM
                          POWER guys commented on this years ago ...rwessel2014/08/16 09:43 PM
                          POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Michael S2014/08/16 11:30 PM
                            POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Ricardo B2014/08/17 06:28 AM
                        POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Aaron Spink2014/08/16 10:25 PM
                          POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/17 12:10 AM
                            POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Aaron Spink2014/08/17 12:42 AM
                              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/17 03:40 AM
                                POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Ricardo B2014/08/17 06:43 AM
                                  POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/17 07:53 AM
                                POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/17 07:42 AM
                              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Ronald Maas2014/08/17 09:57 AM
                                POWER guys commented on this years ago ...rwessel2014/08/17 10:40 AM
                                POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Ricardo B2014/08/17 12:06 PM
                                  POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Aaron Spink2014/08/17 01:56 PM
                                  POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Michael S2014/08/17 02:22 PM
                                    POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Ricardo B2014/08/17 03:14 PM
                                      cheap membarsMichael S2014/08/17 05:56 PM
                                        cheap membarsnksingh2014/08/21 11:34 AM
                                          cheap membarsMichael S2014/08/21 12:31 PM
                                            cheap membarsnksingh2014/08/21 02:54 PM
                                              cheap membarsMichael S2014/08/21 06:40 PM
                                            cheap membarsanon2014/08/21 11:17 PM
                                              cheap membarsMichael S2014/08/22 03:16 AM
                                                cheap membarsanon2014/08/22 07:33 AM
                                                  cheap membarsMichael S2014/08/22 08:18 AM
                                                    cheap membarsanon2014/08/22 05:50 PM
                                                      cheap membarsPatrick Chase2014/08/24 11:06 AM
                                                        cheap membarsPatrick Chase2014/08/24 11:11 AM
                                                          cheap membarsanon2014/08/24 07:21 PM
                                                            cheap membarsPatrick Chase2014/08/25 11:02 AM
                                                              cheap membarsdmcq2014/08/30 02:15 AM
                                      POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/17 10:55 PM
                              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Howard Chu2014/08/28 09:17 PM
                                POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Aaron Spink2014/08/29 07:35 AM
                                  POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Michael S2014/08/29 08:34 AM
                                  POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/29 03:49 PM
                                    POWER guys commented on this years ago ...foobar2014/08/30 09:26 PM
                                      POWER guys commented on this years ago ...dmcq2014/08/31 04:54 AM
                                        POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Wilco2014/08/31 12:52 PM
                          POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Maynard Handley2014/08/17 09:52 AM
                            POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Maynard Handley2014/08/17 10:31 AM
                              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Gabriele Svelto2014/08/18 02:11 AM
                            POWER guys commented on this years ago ...nksingh2014/08/25 03:55 AM
                            POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Patrick Chase2014/08/25 11:15 AM
                              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Patrick Chase2014/08/25 11:23 AM
                              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...nksingh2014/08/25 09:26 PM
                                POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Patrick Chase2014/08/25 11:32 PM
                                  POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Aaron Spink2014/08/26 04:41 AM
                                    POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/26 06:06 AM
                                      POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Aaron Spink2014/08/26 05:27 PM
                                        POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/26 11:02 PM
                                          POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Aaron Spink2014/08/26 11:51 PM
                                            POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/28 08:25 PM
                                              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/28 10:45 PM
                                              POWER guys commented on this years ago ...rwessel2014/08/29 01:14 AM
                                                POWER guys commented on this years ago ...anon2014/08/29 03:49 AM
                                                  POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Michael S2014/08/29 06:43 AM
                                          POWER guys commented on this years ago ...nksingh2014/08/26 11:54 PM
                                        POWER guys commented on this years ago ...dmcq2014/08/27 02:29 AM
                                          POWER guys commented on this years ago ...dmcq2014/08/27 08:16 AM
                                    Idiom recognition for LL/SC?Paul A. Clayton2014/08/26 01:28 PM
                        POWER guys commented on this years ago ...Gabriele Svelto2014/08/16 11:22 PM
                      AltiVec was Power6 (NT)Kira2014/08/17 11:33 AM
                        AltiVec was Power6Maynard Handley2014/08/17 12:29 PM
                          AltiVec was Power6Kira2014/08/17 12:53 PM
Reply to this Topic
Name:
Email:
Topic:
Body: No Text
How do you spell avocado?