There he goes again on his favorite hobby horse

By: Linus Torvalds (torvalds.delete@this.linux-foundation.org), November 17, 2014 4:38 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
someone (someone.delete@this.somewhere.com) on November 17, 2014 7:20 am wrote:
>
> So once again I challenge you to reference a single paper written by Intel and/or HP Itanium technical
> staff which includes misleading statements/representations of the type that you claim

What, the slides from hotchips that I already showed as an example of this disease didn't count? They were *so* misleading that you should be embarrassed for the people who wrote them.

And they sure as hell were all about inflating CPI artificially any way you could. Not just with speculative work (which they even talk about)

Which part are you really objecting to?

The fact that Itanium "CPI" numbers are fundamentally inflated due to speculative work done by the compiler? I'm not making that up. That's just a fact. That's how the whole architecture was designed - the whole predication and advanced loads are what made Itanium unique, and the only reason for them is SW speculation.

The fact that people touted the high-IPC nature of Itanium? Including, very much, Intel people. Go look at the slides I already posted, for chrissake. I didn't make that up either. They even show how they had more instructions than alpha, just look at the graph. And let me quote from that thing (from Intel): "About 20--30% of loads are speculative in Intel binaries".

So that thing - that I already quoted for you - very much showed that whole "let's show great CPI with our speculative work".

The fact that should make you extra embarrassed for it is that whole "Useful IPC counted using 'unstalled cycles'" part, which takes the whole "let's inflate our CPI" to absolutely ridiculous levels. You might even call it "lying", since it has absolutely nothing to do with "CPI", and even less to do with the word "useful".

So what the heck is your beef? Just the fact that I'm a well-known hippie ("I did it before it was cool") Itanium detractor, and I happened to be right in my disdain for the piece of sh*t?

The one thing I do agree on is that it's a dead horse. I'm sorry that my throw-away "Intanium combined all of these problems" raised your hackles so badly.. Because I definitely agree that it's not worth discussing any more, the thing is dead, dead, dead.

Linus
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                          But can it beat an optimized OoO?juanrga2014/10/30 07:51 AM
                            But can it beat an optimized OoO?Brett2014/10/31 04:34 PM
                              But can it beat an optimized OoO?David Kanter2014/10/31 09:26 PM
                                But can it beat an optimized OoO?Michael S2014/11/01 10:07 AM
                                But can it beat an optimized OoO?Brett2014/11/01 11:25 AM
                                  But can it beat an optimized OoO?David Kanter2014/11/01 02:26 PM
                                    But can it beat an optimized OoO?Brett2014/11/08 03:10 PM
                                      But can it beat an optimized OoO?David Kanter2014/11/08 11:08 PM
                                        But can it beat an optimized OoO?Brett2014/11/09 12:51 AM
                                          But can it beat an optimized OoO?Michael S2014/11/09 01:05 AM
                                          How many CPU cores?David Kanter2014/11/09 08:19 AM
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                                                        How many CPU cores?Gabriele Svelto2014/11/11 01:50 AM
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                                                Why did Netburst seem like "crap"?Paul A. Clayton2014/11/11 07:21 AM
                                                  Why did Netburst seem like "crap"?Kevin G2014/11/11 08:38 AM
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                                                          Why did Netburst seem like "crap"?NoSpammer2014/11/16 01:06 PM
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                                                                There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsesomeone2014/11/16 03:31 PM
                                                                  There he goes again on his favorite hobby horseLinus Torvalds2014/11/16 04:17 PM
                                                                    There he goes again on his favorite hobby horseDavid Kanter2014/11/16 08:39 PM
                                                                      There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsecoppice2014/11/16 10:24 PM
                                                                        There he goes again on his favorite hobby horseDoug S2014/11/17 09:07 AM
                                                                          There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsePatrick Chase2014/11/17 11:40 AM
                                                                            There he goes again on his favorite hobby horseDoug S2014/11/17 01:00 PM
                                                                              There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsePatrick Chase2014/11/17 02:02 PM
                                                                                There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsesomeone2014/11/17 02:25 PM
                                                                                  There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsePatrick Chase2014/11/17 04:00 PM
                                                                                    There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsenone2014/11/17 11:59 PM
                                                                                      There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsePatrick Chase2014/11/18 10:18 AM
                                                                                      There he goes again on his favorite hobby horseAlberto2014/11/19 01:55 PM
                                                                                    There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsegallier22014/11/18 12:55 AM
                                                                              There he goes again on his favorite hobby horseAaron Spink2014/11/19 09:22 AM
                                                                                There he goes again on his favorite hobby horseMaynard Handley2014/11/19 09:31 AM
                                                                                  There he goes again on his favorite hobby horseAaron Spink2014/11/20 08:33 AM
                                                                                    There he goes again on his favorite hobby horseMichael S2014/11/20 09:14 AM
                                                                                      There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsePatrick Chase2014/11/20 10:30 AM
                                                                                        There he goes again on his favorite hobby horseMichael S2014/11/20 11:10 AM
                                                                                          There he goes again on his favorite hobby horseMichael S2014/11/20 11:23 AM
                                                                                            There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsePatrick Chase2014/11/20 09:59 PM
                                                                                          There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsePatrick Chase2014/11/20 09:45 PM
                                                                                            There he goes again on his favorite hobby horseMichael S2014/11/23 10:24 AM
                                                                                              What I hope is only a slight tangentTerry A Gray2014/11/23 02:42 PM
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                                                                                                VAX could HAVE made it...gallier22014/11/24 07:26 AM
                                                                                                John Mashey has a comp.arch post that is relevant (maybe)Mark Roulo2014/11/24 03:17 PM
                                                                                                  John Mashey has a comp.arch post that is relevant (maybe)Mark Rouo2014/11/24 03:21 PM
                                                                                                  John Mashey has a comp.arch post that is relevant (maybe)Linus Torvalds2014/11/24 05:17 PM
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                                                                                                    John Mashey has a comp.arch post that is relevant (maybe)Ricardo B2014/11/25 03:34 PM
                                                                                                      John Mashey has a comp.arch post that is relevant (maybe)Peter Lund2014/11/27 11:48 AM
                                                                                                        John Mashey has a comp.arch post that is relevant (maybe)Peter Lund2014/11/27 11:56 AM
                                                                                                        John Mashey has a comp.arch post that is relevant (maybe)Ricardo B2014/11/27 03:04 PM
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                                                                                                There he goes again on his favorite hobby horserwessel2014/11/24 10:48 PM
                                                                                                  There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsePeter Lund2014/11/27 12:10 PM
                                                                                                    There he goes again on his favorite hobby horserwessel2014/11/28 12:52 AM
                                                                                                    68k line decoding and opcodesBrett2014/11/28 09:42 AM
                                                                                                    There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsePatrick Chase2014/11/28 03:42 PM
                                                                                                      Yet another form of "worse is better" ? (NT)Michael S2014/11/29 11:12 AM
                                                                                                        Yet another form of "worse is better" ?Patrick Chase2014/11/30 06:23 PM
                                                                                                          Yet another form of "worse is better" ?dmcq2014/12/01 01:08 AM
                                                                                                            Yet another form of "worse is better" ?Jouni Osmala2014/12/01 10:19 PM
                                                                                                              Yet another form of "worse is better" ?Patrick Chase2014/12/02 12:54 PM
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                                                                                                Make RISCY case fast CISCY case slow implementationJouni Osmala2014/11/25 03:40 AM
                                                                                                  Make RISCY case fast CISCY case slow implementationPeter Lund2014/11/27 12:13 PM
                                                                                                  Make RISCY case fast CISCY case slow implementationRonald Maas2014/11/29 08:58 AM
                                                                                                    Make RISCY case fast CISCY case slow implementationJouni Osmala2014/11/30 02:08 AM
                                                                                                There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsePeter Lund2014/11/27 12:03 PM
                                                                                    There he goes again on his favorite hobby horseMaynard Handley2014/11/20 10:13 AM
                                                                                      There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsePatrick Chase2014/11/20 10:34 AM
                                                                                      There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsePatrick Chase2014/11/20 09:39 PM
                                                                                        There he goes again on his favorite hobby horseAaron Spink2014/11/21 02:30 AM
                                                                                          There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsePatrick Chase2014/11/21 09:33 AM
                                                                                        There he goes again on his favorite hobby horseMichael S2014/11/21 02:49 AM
                                                                                          GPRs did rotate, renaming not in execute critical loopPaul A. Clayton2014/11/21 04:29 AM
                                                                                            GPRs did rotate, renaming not in execute critical loopLinus Torvalds2014/11/21 09:14 AM
                                                                                Information on Intel pre-Itanium architecture effort?Mark Roulo2014/11/19 10:17 AM
                                                                                  Information on Intel pre-Itanium architecture effort?Kira2014/11/20 06:35 AM
                                                                              There he goes again on his favorite hobby horseDuane2014/11/19 10:57 AM
                                                                          There he goes again on his favorite hobby horseMaynard Handley2014/11/17 03:14 PM
                                                                            There he goes again on his favorite hobby horseDoug S2014/11/17 09:52 PM
                                                                          There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsecoppice2014/11/17 07:11 PM
                                                                    There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsesomeone2014/11/17 06:20 AM
                                                                      There he goes again on his favorite hobby horseLinus Torvalds2014/11/17 04:38 PM
                                                                        There he goes again on his favorite hobby horsesomeone2014/11/17 07:10 PM
                                                                          There he goes again on his favorite hobby horseNo one2014/11/18 06:25 AM
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                                      The x86 core is Zenjuanrga2014/11/09 05:44 AM
                                        The x86 core is Zendmcq2014/11/16 04:09 AM
                              But can it beat an optimized OoO?Ken H2014/11/02 08:54 PM
                                But can it beat an optimized OoO?Michael S2014/11/02 11:29 PM
                                But can it beat an optimized OoO?Heikki Kultala2014/11/04 04:01 AM
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                                    Bulldozer design 'stupidity'juanrga2014/11/04 11:14 AM
                                    Bulldozer design 'stupidity'h2014/11/04 12:14 PM
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                                        Bulldozer L2 latency(re: Bulldozer design 'stupidity')Y2014/11/18 09:06 AM
                                  But can it beat an optimized OoO?juanrga2014/11/04 11:18 AM
                                But can it beat an optimized OoO?Exophase2014/11/09 07:01 PM
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