ARMv8 getting atomic operations

By: Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org), December 3, 2014 8:20 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Doug S (foo.delete@this.bar.bar) on December 2, 2014 10:30 pm wrote:
> Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org) on December 2, 2014 7:33 pm wrote:
> > dmcq (dmcq.delete@this.fano.co.uk) on December 2, 2014 5:32 pm wrote:
> > > It seems ARM have decided that atomic operations are a good idea
> > >
> > > http://community.arm.com/groups/processors/blog/2014/12/02/the-armv8-a-architecture-and-its-ongoing-development
> > >
> > > they are sticking a whole load of atomic operations into their 64 bit ARM architecture as
> > > well as the current acquire and release and memory exclusive ones. I'd guess so the operation
> > > can be exported to the cache or whereever and done there quickly but it is interesting that
> > > they think it worthwhile to implement these as well as all the other special memory operations
> > > they have. They will now have a quite amazing range of memory access operations.
> > >
> > > The link also describes a number of other additions they are making, they seem to be targetting
> > > large systems. Still no transactional memory or decimal floating point like POWER yet though ;-)
> >
> > Hmm. Interesting in light of the rumors (RUMORS!) that the mythical large screen iPad is
> > due in about six months and with an A9 (rather than the expected A8X) SoC. That certainly
> > gives one (admittedly not overwhelming) reason why Apple might want to rush forward with
> > a new core faster than expected, and perhaps why the A8 was so much just a tweaked A7.
>
>
> I think you're really reaching here. There have been rumors about a big iPad for over two years, and
> it still hasn't materialized. I think the initial rumors were unfounded and now it has taken on a life
> of its own as analysts randomly make stuff up hoping they'll get lucky and people will think they're
> geniuses. There won't be a big iPad in six months, but I'm sure we'll be treated to another rumor about
> how it will be announced in the fall, and when that doesn't happen, just after Christmas...
>
> In order to have shipping silicon in six months at the quantities a new model of iPad would require, Apple
> would have to have production ready masks today. That means they'd have to been developing v8.1 with ARM
> and friends, while simultaneously designing and debugging the A9. Not sure that's even possible. After all,
> people were amazed at how quickly Apple delivered the A7, but it was 23 months after ARM announced the ARMv8
> architecture! Granted, this isn't a whole new architecture, but six months is a lot less than 23.
>
> If they were doing a bigger iPad, I imagine it would be targeted at the enterprise
> market via the new IBM partnership. Can't see Apple being that aggressive and
> risking damage to their enterprise cred before it even gets off the ground.

I don't want to justify rumors here, but I think there are a few points you are missing:

- ARM themselves talk about silicon becoming available H2 2015, which suggests that they told partners about these updates some time ago. [Heck, let's be honest here; this is a group activity and quite likely at least some of these new features are being asked for/driven by their partners, including Apple.]

- the timing makes sense for Apple in many ways. Right now Apple, I assume, have a new CPU chip ready to go about 6 months before an iPhone launch, and then spend 6 months building inventory for the launch. That's six months of lost bragging rights.
If they merely launch the big iPad at around the time the A9 would naturally start its production build up, they're still actually following the annual schedule, only they release a few chips into the wild early in what will (probably) be a somewhat specialized and low-volume device.
What they give up in return for six months more of a background "we are the king and have the most advanced CPU" vibe is the excitement of telling the world there is a new A9 CPU at the iPhone launch. That seems like a good tradeoff in PR terms --- the mass market doesn't care about the details of the new A9 and when they dribble out through AnandTech and Chipworks, but they do vaguely pick up on a general atmosphere of "Apple devices are always at the top of the speed rankings", something that sometimes gets lost in the last four months or so before the release of the next iPhone.

- the large iPad rumors seem to be moving to the same stage of "reality" as we saw with the large iPhone rumors; beyond hopes and dreams to claims (presumably based on leaks from within factories) or actual sizes and details like speaker placement.
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TopicPosted ByDate
ARMv8 getting atomic operationsdmcq2014/12/02 04:32 PM
  ARMv8 getting atomic operationsMaynard Handley2014/12/02 06:33 PM
    ARMv8 getting atomic operationsDoug S2014/12/02 09:30 PM
      ARMv8 getting atomic operationsdmcq2014/12/03 02:16 AM
      ARMv8 getting atomic operationsMaynard Handley2014/12/03 08:20 AM
      ARMv8 getting atomic operationsBrett2014/12/03 03:46 PM
    ARMv8 getting atomic operationsAndreas2014/12/03 05:51 AM
      ARMv8 getting atomic operationsLinus Torvalds2014/12/03 10:15 AM
        ARMv8 getting atomic operationsanon2014/12/03 04:08 PM
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            Guaranteed transactionsanon2014/12/03 07:38 PM
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                            Avoiding ping pongnksingh2014/12/06 02:51 AM
                              Avoiding ping pongEric Bron2014/12/06 03:08 AM
                            Avoiding ping pongLinus Torvalds2014/12/06 12:25 PM
                              Avoiding ping pongnksingh2014/12/07 02:26 PM
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                                            Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Rob Thorpe2015/01/02 07:20 AM
                                              Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?juanrga2015/01/02 10:21 AM
                                                Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?EduardoS2015/01/02 10:37 AM
                                                  Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?juanrga2015/01/03 11:00 AM
                                                Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Eric Bron nli2015/01/02 01:28 PM
                                                  Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?juanrga2015/01/03 11:02 AM
                                                    Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Michael S2015/01/03 11:36 AM
                                                      Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?juanrga2015/01/03 12:11 PM
                                                        Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Michael S2015/01/03 12:30 PM
                                                          Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Eric Bron2015/01/03 01:57 PM
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                                                          Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?juanrga2015/01/07 04:47 AM
                                                            Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Michael S2015/01/07 07:27 AM
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                                                                    Manycores vs multicoresAaron Spink2015/01/10 06:21 PM
                                                                      Manycores vs multicoresjuanrga2015/01/10 07:25 PM
                                                                        Manycores vs multicoresAaron Spink2015/01/10 08:11 PM
                                                                          Manycores vs multicoresJouni Osmala2015/01/11 03:50 AM
                                                                            Manycores vs multicoresjuanrga2015/01/11 07:58 AM
                                                                            Manycores vs multicorescoppice2015/01/12 09:01 PM
                                                                              Manycores vs multicoresJouni Osmala2015/01/13 03:38 AM
                                                                        Manycores vs multicoresanon2015/01/11 02:19 AM
                                                                      Manycores vs multicoresMichael S2015/01/11 04:44 AM
                                                                        Manycores vs multicoresAaron Spink2015/01/11 04:55 PM
                                                                          Manycores vs multicoresMichael S2015/01/12 03:41 AM
                                                                            Manycores vs multicoresEric Bron2015/01/12 05:29 AM
                                                                              Manycores vs multicoresEric Bron2015/01/12 05:30 AM
                                                        Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Eric Bron2015/01/03 01:54 PM
                                                          Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?juanrga2015/01/07 04:48 AM
                                                            Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Eric Bron2015/01/07 06:41 AM
                                                              Manycores vs multicoresjuanrga2015/01/10 03:14 PM
                                                    Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Eric Bron2015/01/03 01:42 PM
                                                      Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?juanrga2015/01/07 05:03 AM
                                                        Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Eric Bron2015/01/07 06:45 AM
                                                        Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Linus Torvalds2015/01/08 02:09 PM
                                                          Pink unicorns for salejuanrga2015/01/10 04:09 PM
                                                        Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...Mark Roulo2015/01/08 05:37 PM
                                                          Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...coppice2015/01/08 10:38 PM
                                                            Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...Mark Roulo2015/01/09 08:13 AM
                                                              Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...Anon2015/01/10 01:00 AM
                                                              Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...David Hess2015/01/11 12:03 PM
                                                            Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...someone2015/01/09 09:31 AM
                                                              Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...coppice2015/01/12 08:45 PM
                                                                Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...coppice2015/01/12 08:47 PM
                                                                  Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...Michael S2015/01/13 06:53 AM
                                                                    Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...coppice2015/01/13 08:44 AM
                                                                      Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...Michael S2015/01/13 09:01 AM
                                                                        Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...coppice2015/01/13 07:35 PM
                                                                      Core sizesjuanrga2015/01/13 11:28 AM
                                                          NVIDIA'S FIRST CPU IS A WINNER (Linley Gwennap)juanrga2015/01/10 03:34 PM
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                                                          Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Patrick Chase2015/01/09 10:54 AM
                                                            Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Mark Roulo2015/01/09 11:59 AM
                                                              Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Patrick Chase2015/01/09 02:20 PM
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                                                Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Rob Thorpe2015/01/03 07:25 PM
                                          Avoiding ping pongMaynard Handley2014/12/09 10:33 AM
                                            Avoiding ping pongPatrick Chase2014/12/09 12:54 PM
                                              Avoiding ping pongMaynard Handley2014/12/09 05:56 PM
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                                      Avoiding ping pongook2014/12/11 02:31 AM
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                                      What about specialization?Troll?2015/01/02 06:55 AM
                                        What about specialization?Ungo2015/01/04 02:27 PM
                                      Avoiding ping pongfewwef2015/01/05 07:16 PM
                                      Avoiding ping pongV.Krishn2015/01/08 05:11 AM
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                                    Avoiding ping ponganon2014/12/08 10:37 PM
                            Avoiding ping pongKonrad Schwarz2014/12/10 05:23 AM
                              Avoiding ping pongLinus Torvalds2014/12/10 10:56 AM
                          Object reference lockingDavid W2014/12/08 10:36 PM
                            Object reference lockingPatrick Chase2014/12/09 03:52 PM
                              Object reference lockingDavid W2014/12/11 04:18 AM
                    ISA != interface for "most programmers"Paul A. Clayton2014/12/04 02:34 PM
                      ISA != interface for "most programmers"rwessel2014/12/04 06:50 PM
                  Interesting! (exporting hot lines/cache-aware ISA); "Please sir, I want some more" (NT)Paul A. Clayton2014/12/04 01:26 PM
                  Avoiding ping pongMichael S2014/12/06 02:48 PM
          ARMv8 getting atomic operationsLinus Torvalds2014/12/04 11:05 AM
            LL/SC idiom recognition is not admitting RMW superiorityPaul A. Clayton2014/12/04 01:34 PM
            ARMv8 getting atomic operationsanon2014/12/04 09:17 PM
    ARMv8 getting atomic operationsPatrick Chase2014/12/03 11:09 AM
  limited ordernksingh2014/12/04 09:17 PM
    I didn't understand this either. (NT)Konrad Schwarz2014/12/04 09:32 PM
    limited orderdmcq2014/12/05 01:13 AM
    limited orderbakaneko2014/12/05 08:11 AM
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