Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?

By: juanrga (nospam.delete@this.juanrga.com), January 7, 2015 5:03 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Eric Bron (eric.bron.delete@this.zvisuel.privatefortest.com) on January 3, 2015 2:42 pm wrote:
> juanrga (nospam.delete@this.juanrga.com) on January 3, 2015 12:02 pm wrote:
> > Eric Bron nli (eric.bron.delete@this.zvisuel.com) on January 2, 2015 2:28 pm wrote:
> > > > I still recall when he pretended that Intel had abandoned manycores with the new Xeon
> > > > Phi
> > >
> > > link ?
> >
> > http://www.realworldtech.com/forum/?threadid=143796&curpostid=143824
>
> thank you for the link, he was saying "going away" not "abandoned, which is factually
> true speaking of the near future evolution of MIC, i.e. roughly same number of cores
> in 14 nm KNL than 22 nm KNC, whatever your favorite marketing material says about it
>
> as others have already tried to explain you, it's the opposite to what was "predicted" in a series
> of papers you have posted on this very forum saying that the future is with more simpler cores

"Abandonment" is a synonym of "going away".

My point is that future applications will require the main processor to be a hundred/thousand manycore because multicores don't scale up and cannot provide the needed throughput --the goal is to obtain 50x more performance by about 2020--. I asked Linus twice how he proposes to reach the target goals and he twice avoided the question, he only writes ridiculous rants against manycores.

Reaching this goal will require novel hardware and software techniques now under development. Recently Intel's Crago and coworkers have published a set of latency techniques "to reach the energy efficiency goals of future 1000-core data-parallel processors" [1]. They evaluated and rejected a number of existent latency techniques, including Linus beloved OoO.

Those techniques and others were not available when Intel did start development of KNL. As a consequence KNL engineers had no other choice than a traditional OoO for the KNL core, and then had to increase the SIMD wide to recover part of the lost efficiency.

However, and this is my point, when those novel latency techniques achieve maturity, the big OoO cores don't will be needed and will be replaced by smaller cores. I recall the thread about alternatives to OoO. I gave a selection of interesting papers and the cold response of some people here was "it will not work". I recall Aaron asking me why I believed that mixing VLIW with RA was a good idea. Funny, because we know now that Denver is an in-order VLIW+RA core that outperforms wide OoO cores such as Cyclone or Haswell.

I have diagrams and other technical info about the manycores designed by Nvidia, Fujitsu, IBM, AMD, and others for the 2020, and none use OoO for the throughput cores. KNL is an exception rather than the rule.

NOTES:

[1] http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/login.jsp?tp=&arnumber=6522327&url=http%3A%2F%2Fieeexplore.ieee.org%2Fxpls%2Fabs_all.jsp%3Farnumber%3D6522327
< Previous Post in ThreadNext Post in Thread >
TopicPosted ByDate
ARMv8 getting atomic operationsdmcq2014/12/02 04:32 PM
  ARMv8 getting atomic operationsMaynard Handley2014/12/02 06:33 PM
    ARMv8 getting atomic operationsDoug S2014/12/02 09:30 PM
      ARMv8 getting atomic operationsdmcq2014/12/03 02:16 AM
      ARMv8 getting atomic operationsMaynard Handley2014/12/03 08:20 AM
      ARMv8 getting atomic operationsBrett2014/12/03 03:46 PM
    ARMv8 getting atomic operationsAndreas2014/12/03 05:51 AM
      ARMv8 getting atomic operationsLinus Torvalds2014/12/03 10:15 AM
        ARMv8 getting atomic operationsanon2014/12/03 04:08 PM
          Guaranteed transactionsPaul A. Clayton2014/12/03 07:04 PM
            Guaranteed transactionsanon2014/12/03 07:38 PM
              Avoiding ping pongPaul A. Clayton2014/12/04 08:11 AM
                Avoiding ping ponganon2014/12/04 09:15 AM
                  OoO window is limitedPaul A. Clayton2014/12/04 12:06 PM
                Avoiding ping pongAaron Spink2014/12/04 11:01 AM
                  Avoiding ping pongKonrad Schwarz2014/12/04 12:10 PM
                    Avoiding ping pongAaron Spink2014/12/04 01:31 PM
                    Avoiding ping pongGabriele Svelto2014/12/04 01:49 PM
                      Avoiding ping pongKonrad Schwarz2014/12/04 10:08 PM
                        Avoiding ping pongGabriele Svelto2014/12/04 11:04 PM
                          Avoiding ping pongEric Bron nli2014/12/05 01:28 AM
                            Avoiding ping pongKonrad Schwarz2014/12/05 02:37 AM
                              Avoiding ping pongEric Bron nli2014/12/05 03:23 AM
                                Avoiding ping pongKlimax2014/12/05 04:47 AM
                                  Avoiding ping pongEric Bron2014/12/05 05:24 AM
                              Avoiding ping pongGabriele Svelto2014/12/05 09:38 AM
                                Avoiding ping pongKonrad Schwarz2014/12/07 01:28 PM
                                  Avoiding ping pongGabriele Svelto2014/12/08 06:10 PM
                                    Avoiding ping pongKonrad Schwarz2014/12/09 04:12 AM
                                      Avoiding ping pongGabriele Svelto2014/12/09 06:31 AM
                                        Avoiding ping ponganon2014/12/09 10:24 PM
                            Avoiding ping pongGabriele Svelto2014/12/05 09:17 AM
                              Avoiding ping pongEric Bron2014/12/05 09:32 AM
                                Avoiding ping pongGabriele Svelto2014/12/05 11:45 AM
                                  Avoiding ping pongEric Bron2014/12/06 01:20 AM
                                    Avoiding ping pongnksingh2014/12/06 02:42 AM
                                      Avoiding ping pongEric Bron2014/12/06 03:04 AM
                                        Avoiding ping pongGiGNiC2014/12/06 05:27 AM
                                          Avoiding ping pongEric Bron nli2014/12/06 05:44 AM
                                          Avoiding ping pongEric Bron2014/12/06 06:07 AM
                                            Avoiding ping pongnksingh2014/12/07 03:06 PM
                                              Avoiding ping pongEric Bron2014/12/08 03:17 AM
                                                Avoiding ping pongGiGNiC2014/12/08 10:53 AM
                                                Avoiding ping pongnksingh2014/12/08 04:53 PM
                                                  Avoiding ping pongEric Bron2014/12/09 12:33 AM
                                    Avoiding ping pongdmsc2014/12/06 03:12 AM
                                      Avoiding ping pongEric Bron2014/12/06 03:25 AM
                                        Avoiding ping pongKlimax2014/12/06 04:49 AM
                                          Avoiding ping pongrwessel2014/12/07 01:34 AM
                                        Avoiding ping pongdmsc2014/12/06 06:39 AM
                                        Avoiding ping pongKonrad Schwarz2014/12/07 01:37 PM
                                          Avoiding ping pongMichael S2014/12/07 03:37 PM
                                            Avoiding ping pongKonrad Schwarz2014/12/08 03:35 AM
                          Avoiding ping pongKonrad Schwarz2014/12/05 02:30 AM
                        Avoiding ping pongLinus Torvalds2014/12/05 11:58 AM
                          Avoiding ping pongEric Bron2014/12/06 01:42 AM
                            Avoiding ping pongnksingh2014/12/06 02:51 AM
                              Avoiding ping pongEric Bron2014/12/06 03:08 AM
                            Avoiding ping pongLinus Torvalds2014/12/06 12:25 PM
                              Avoiding ping pongnksingh2014/12/07 02:26 PM
                                Avoiding ping pongEric Bron2014/12/08 03:35 AM
                                  Avoiding ping pongBrett2014/12/08 09:00 AM
                                    Avoiding ping pongEric Bron2014/12/08 09:48 AM
                                    Avoiding ping pongrwessel2014/12/08 11:52 AM
                                      Avoiding ping pongBrett2014/12/08 12:58 PM
                                      Avoiding ping pongDoug S2014/12/08 01:04 PM
                              Avoiding ping pongJouni Osmala2014/12/08 01:45 AM
                                Avoiding ping ponganon2014/12/08 04:44 AM
                                  Avoiding ping pongJouni Osmala2014/12/08 12:10 PM
                                    Avoiding ping pongLinus Torvalds2014/12/08 12:34 PM
                                      Avoiding ping pongJouni Osmala2014/12/08 02:47 PM
                                        Avoiding ping pongLinus Torvalds2014/12/08 07:08 PM
                                          Avoiding ping pongGabriele Svelto2014/12/09 06:48 AM
                                            Avoiding ping pongMaynard Handley2014/12/09 10:41 AM
                                              Avoiding ping pongPatrick Chase2014/12/09 12:06 PM
                                              Avoiding ping pongGabriele Svelto2014/12/09 12:52 PM
                                                Avoiding ping pongPatrick Chase2014/12/09 01:08 PM
                                            Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Rob Thorpe2015/01/02 07:20 AM
                                              Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?juanrga2015/01/02 10:21 AM
                                                Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?EduardoS2015/01/02 10:37 AM
                                                  Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?juanrga2015/01/03 11:00 AM
                                                Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Eric Bron nli2015/01/02 01:28 PM
                                                  Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?juanrga2015/01/03 11:02 AM
                                                    Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Michael S2015/01/03 11:36 AM
                                                      Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?juanrga2015/01/03 12:11 PM
                                                        Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Michael S2015/01/03 12:30 PM
                                                          Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Eric Bron2015/01/03 01:57 PM
                                                            KNL cacheDavid Kanter2015/01/03 06:36 PM
                                                              KNL cacheEric Bron2015/01/04 02:34 AM
                                                                KNL cacheMichael S2015/01/04 03:11 AM
                                                                  KNL cacheEric Bron2015/01/04 03:57 AM
                                                                    KNL cacheMichael S2015/01/04 04:21 AM
                                                                      KNL cacheEric Bron2015/01/04 04:58 AM
                                                          Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?juanrga2015/01/07 04:47 AM
                                                            Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Michael S2015/01/07 07:27 AM
                                                              Manycores vs multicoresjuanrga2015/01/10 03:10 PM
                                                                Manycores vs multicoresAaron Spink2015/01/10 04:32 PM
                                                                  Manycores vs multicoresjuanrga2015/01/10 05:32 PM
                                                                    Manycores vs multicoresExophase2015/01/10 05:49 PM
                                                                      Manycores vs multicoresjuanrga2015/01/10 07:21 PM
                                                                        Manycores vs multicoresExophase2015/01/10 07:51 PM
                                                                        Manycores vs multicoresAaron Spink2015/01/10 08:03 PM
                                                                    Manycores vs multicoresAaron Spink2015/01/10 06:21 PM
                                                                      Manycores vs multicoresjuanrga2015/01/10 07:25 PM
                                                                        Manycores vs multicoresAaron Spink2015/01/10 08:11 PM
                                                                          Manycores vs multicoresJouni Osmala2015/01/11 03:50 AM
                                                                            Manycores vs multicoresjuanrga2015/01/11 07:58 AM
                                                                            Manycores vs multicorescoppice2015/01/12 09:01 PM
                                                                              Manycores vs multicoresJouni Osmala2015/01/13 03:38 AM
                                                                        Manycores vs multicoresanon2015/01/11 02:19 AM
                                                                      Manycores vs multicoresMichael S2015/01/11 04:44 AM
                                                                        Manycores vs multicoresAaron Spink2015/01/11 04:55 PM
                                                                          Manycores vs multicoresMichael S2015/01/12 03:41 AM
                                                                            Manycores vs multicoresEric Bron2015/01/12 05:29 AM
                                                                              Manycores vs multicoresEric Bron2015/01/12 05:30 AM
                                                        Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Eric Bron2015/01/03 01:54 PM
                                                          Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?juanrga2015/01/07 04:48 AM
                                                            Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Eric Bron2015/01/07 06:41 AM
                                                              Manycores vs multicoresjuanrga2015/01/10 03:14 PM
                                                    Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Eric Bron2015/01/03 01:42 PM
                                                      Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?juanrga2015/01/07 05:03 AM
                                                        Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Eric Bron2015/01/07 06:45 AM
                                                        Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Linus Torvalds2015/01/08 02:09 PM
                                                          Pink unicorns for salejuanrga2015/01/10 04:09 PM
                                                        Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...Mark Roulo2015/01/08 05:37 PM
                                                          Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...coppice2015/01/08 10:38 PM
                                                            Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...Mark Roulo2015/01/09 08:13 AM
                                                              Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...Anon2015/01/10 01:00 AM
                                                              Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...David Hess2015/01/11 12:03 PM
                                                            Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...someone2015/01/09 09:31 AM
                                                              Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...coppice2015/01/12 08:45 PM
                                                                Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...coppice2015/01/12 08:47 PM
                                                                  Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...Michael S2015/01/13 06:53 AM
                                                                    Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...coppice2015/01/13 08:44 AM
                                                                      Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...Michael S2015/01/13 09:01 AM
                                                                        Intentionally picking a competitors slow part is cheating ...coppice2015/01/13 07:35 PM
                                                                      Core sizesjuanrga2015/01/13 11:28 AM
                                                          NVIDIA'S FIRST CPU IS A WINNER (Linley Gwennap)juanrga2015/01/10 03:34 PM
                                                        Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Patrick Chase2015/01/08 06:02 PM
                                                        Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?coppice2015/01/08 09:18 PM
                                                          Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Patrick Chase2015/01/09 10:54 AM
                                                            Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Mark Roulo2015/01/09 11:59 AM
                                                              Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Patrick Chase2015/01/09 02:20 PM
                                                                Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Eric Bron2015/01/09 02:30 PM
                                                            Alternatives to OOOE (again)juanrga2015/01/10 03:50 PM
                                                              Alternatives to OOOE (again)David Kanter2015/01/10 11:10 PM
                                                                Alternatives to OOOE (again)juanrga2015/01/11 07:30 AM
                                                            Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Gabriele Svelto2015/01/10 11:53 PM
                                              Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Fake Linus Torvalds2015/01/03 11:14 AM
                                                Why read RWT or Reddit when you can get journalists to do it for you?Rob Thorpe2015/01/03 07:25 PM
                                          Avoiding ping pongMaynard Handley2014/12/09 10:33 AM
                                            Avoiding ping pongPatrick Chase2014/12/09 12:54 PM
                                              Avoiding ping pongMaynard Handley2014/12/09 05:56 PM
                                      Avoiding ping pongSalvatore De Dominicis2014/12/09 07:51 AM
                                        Avoiding ping pongPatrick Chase2014/12/09 01:00 PM
                                      Avoiding ping pongook2014/12/11 02:31 AM
                                      Avoiding ping pongArt Scott2014/12/19 09:19 PM
                                        Avoiding ping pongEric Bron nli2014/12/20 03:05 AM
                                      What about specialization?Troll?2015/01/02 06:55 AM
                                        What about specialization?Ungo2015/01/04 02:27 PM
                                      Avoiding ping pongfewwef2015/01/05 07:16 PM
                                      Avoiding ping pongV.Krishn2015/01/08 05:11 AM
                                    Avoiding ping pongGabriele Svelto2014/12/08 06:32 PM
                                    Avoiding ping ponganon2014/12/08 10:37 PM
                            Avoiding ping pongKonrad Schwarz2014/12/10 05:23 AM
                              Avoiding ping pongLinus Torvalds2014/12/10 10:56 AM
                          Object reference lockingDavid W2014/12/08 10:36 PM
                            Object reference lockingPatrick Chase2014/12/09 03:52 PM
                              Object reference lockingDavid W2014/12/11 04:18 AM
                    ISA != interface for "most programmers"Paul A. Clayton2014/12/04 02:34 PM
                      ISA != interface for "most programmers"rwessel2014/12/04 06:50 PM
                  Interesting! (exporting hot lines/cache-aware ISA); "Please sir, I want some more" (NT)Paul A. Clayton2014/12/04 01:26 PM
                  Avoiding ping pongMichael S2014/12/06 02:48 PM
          ARMv8 getting atomic operationsLinus Torvalds2014/12/04 11:05 AM
            LL/SC idiom recognition is not admitting RMW superiorityPaul A. Clayton2014/12/04 01:34 PM
            ARMv8 getting atomic operationsanon2014/12/04 09:17 PM
    ARMv8 getting atomic operationsPatrick Chase2014/12/03 11:09 AM
  limited ordernksingh2014/12/04 09:17 PM
    I didn't understand this either. (NT)Konrad Schwarz2014/12/04 09:32 PM
    limited orderdmcq2014/12/05 01:13 AM
    limited orderbakaneko2014/12/05 08:11 AM
Reply to this Topic
Name:
Email:
Topic:
Body: No Text
How do you spell green?