By: Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org), February 4, 2015 1:59 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
David Kanter (dkanter.delete@this.realworldtech.com) on February 4, 2015 11:51 am wrote:
> Eric Bron (eric.bron.delete@this.zvisuel.privatefortest.com) on February 4, 2015 3:42 am wrote:
> > > Go to this page:
> > >
> > > http://www.arm.com/products/processors/cortex-a/cortex-a72-processor.php
> > >
> > > and click on the performance tab. 3.5/1.9 ~= 1.84.
> > >
> > > And don't forget to note the title "Increase in sustained performance in smartphone power budget.
> > >
> > > That makes it hard to even guess how much IPC increase there is, or what top performance
> > > is compared to unconstrained A15/A57.
> >
> > indeed, and thank you for the link
> >
> > btw reasonable people seem to dismiss insane IPC gains:
> >
> > http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37140914&postcount=20
> >
> > https://twitter.com/TheKanter/status/562788528137187329
> >
>
> At the risk of offending people from ARM...I find that ARM's marketing to be absolutely ridiculous
> and deceptive. Comparing IP blocks at different process nodes is just bullshit designed to obfuscate
> the value that the microarchitecture is adding. That is just as terrible as when Intel tries
> to talk about advances in server performance by comparing against Nehalem-EP.
>
> While a comparison against an old core on a old process MIGHT be indicative of what users MAY experience,
> it simply isn't even remotely apples-to-apples. Moreover, USERS DON'T BUY FROM ARM. It's just rubbish.
>
> At least Nvidia's marketing does proper generation to generation comparisons.
>
> ARM has plenty of smart architects, and frankly the marketing group does a disservice to them by not talking
> openly and honestly about the value they are adding for customers. Intel will honestly tell you that improving
> IPC by 5% is hard - and that's the truth for their design point. ARM has much lower performance cores that
> have way more low hanging fruit, so 10-15% should be feasible. It's better to be honest than try and dress
> up someone elses technical innovations (e.g., TSMC's FinFETs) as your own magnificence.
>
> Put another way, I can travel from point A to point B at roughly 120mph. Does that mean I am
> an amazing speedy person? No, it means I have a Honda Civic and can find the highway...
>
> David
Hmm. When I was talking about the fact that Cyclone could match Intel in IPC, I was told in no uncertain terms that an interest purely in IPC, decoupled from the actual frequencies that a chip could reach and the TOTAL overall performance, was the sign of idiotic fanboy'ism.
Just saying...
> Eric Bron (eric.bron.delete@this.zvisuel.privatefortest.com) on February 4, 2015 3:42 am wrote:
> > > Go to this page:
> > >
> > > http://www.arm.com/products/processors/cortex-a/cortex-a72-processor.php
> > >
> > > and click on the performance tab. 3.5/1.9 ~= 1.84.
> > >
> > > And don't forget to note the title "Increase in sustained performance in smartphone power budget.
> > >
> > > That makes it hard to even guess how much IPC increase there is, or what top performance
> > > is compared to unconstrained A15/A57.
> >
> > indeed, and thank you for the link
> >
> > btw reasonable people seem to dismiss insane IPC gains:
> >
> > http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=37140914&postcount=20
> >
> > https://twitter.com/TheKanter/status/562788528137187329
> >
>
> At the risk of offending people from ARM...I find that ARM's marketing to be absolutely ridiculous
> and deceptive. Comparing IP blocks at different process nodes is just bullshit designed to obfuscate
> the value that the microarchitecture is adding. That is just as terrible as when Intel tries
> to talk about advances in server performance by comparing against Nehalem-EP.
>
> While a comparison against an old core on a old process MIGHT be indicative of what users MAY experience,
> it simply isn't even remotely apples-to-apples. Moreover, USERS DON'T BUY FROM ARM. It's just rubbish.
>
> At least Nvidia's marketing does proper generation to generation comparisons.
>
> ARM has plenty of smart architects, and frankly the marketing group does a disservice to them by not talking
> openly and honestly about the value they are adding for customers. Intel will honestly tell you that improving
> IPC by 5% is hard - and that's the truth for their design point. ARM has much lower performance cores that
> have way more low hanging fruit, so 10-15% should be feasible. It's better to be honest than try and dress
> up someone elses technical innovations (e.g., TSMC's FinFETs) as your own magnificence.
>
> Put another way, I can travel from point A to point B at roughly 120mph. Does that mean I am
> an amazing speedy person? No, it means I have a Honda Civic and can find the highway...
>
> David
Hmm. When I was talking about the fact that Cyclone could match Intel in IPC, I was told in no uncertain terms that an interest purely in IPC, decoupled from the actual frequencies that a chip could reach and the TOTAL overall performance, was the sign of idiotic fanboy'ism.
Just saying...
Topic | Posted By | Date |
---|---|---|
ARM announces A72 | Maynard Handley | 2015/02/03 11:36 AM |
ARM announces A72 | anon | 2015/02/03 12:53 PM |
ARM announces A72 | Hugo Décharnes | 2015/02/03 01:20 PM |
ARM announces A72 | juanrga | 2015/02/03 04:15 PM |
ARM announces A72 | Wilco | 2015/02/04 12:58 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Eric Bron | 2015/02/04 01:48 AM |
ARM announces A72 | none | 2015/02/04 02:24 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Eric Bron | 2015/02/04 02:42 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Exophase | 2015/02/04 07:01 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Anon | 2015/02/04 07:35 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Exophase | 2015/02/04 07:58 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Groo | 2015/02/04 09:24 AM |
ARM Marketing, BS up to my ears | David Kanter | 2015/02/04 10:51 AM |
ARM Marketing, BS up to my ears | Maynard Handley | 2015/02/04 01:59 PM |
ARM Marketing, BS up to my ears | David Kanter | 2015/02/04 02:21 PM |
ARM Marketing, BS up to my ears | Groo | 2015/02/04 02:30 PM |
ARM announces A72 | juanrga | 2015/02/04 04:23 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Wilco | 2015/02/04 03:01 PM |
ARM announces A72 | juanrga | 2015/02/04 04:06 PM |
ARM announces A72 | Anon | 2015/02/04 01:28 AM |
ARM announces A72 | juanrga | 2015/02/04 04:31 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Aaron Spink | 2015/02/04 06:49 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Ronald Maas | 2015/02/03 07:23 PM |
ARM announces A72 | Seni | 2015/02/04 12:19 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Maynard Handley | 2015/02/04 10:42 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Seni | 2015/02/04 12:33 PM |
ARM announces A72 | dmcq | 2015/02/04 12:57 PM |
ARM announces A72 | Ronald Maas | 2015/02/04 06:42 PM |
ARM announces A72 | anon | 2015/02/04 05:19 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Exophase | 2015/02/04 07:31 AM |
ARM announces A72 | David Kanter | 2015/02/04 10:25 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Exophase | 2015/02/04 01:33 PM |
ARM announces A72 | anon | 2015/02/04 10:27 PM |
ARM announces A72 (fixed format) | anon | 2015/02/04 10:29 PM |
ARM announces A72 | Exophase | 2015/02/04 11:11 PM |
ARM announces A72 | anon | 2015/02/05 12:02 AM |
ARM announces A72 | anon | 2015/02/04 05:57 PM |
ARM announces A72 | Wilco | 2015/02/03 01:39 PM |
ARM announces A72 | Maynard Handley | 2015/02/03 02:13 PM |
ARM announces A72 | anon | 2015/02/03 02:29 PM |
ARM announces A72 | Wilco | 2015/02/03 02:44 PM |
ARM announces A72 | David Kanter | 2015/02/04 09:56 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Peter Greenhalgh | 2015/02/04 10:56 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Aaron Spink | 2015/02/04 11:59 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Alberto | 2015/02/07 10:22 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Exophase | 2015/02/07 10:47 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Alberto | 2015/02/07 12:44 PM |
ARM announces A72 | Exophase | 2015/02/07 02:35 PM |
ARM announces A72 | Alberto | 2015/02/08 01:09 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Exophase | 2015/02/08 11:05 AM |
ARM announces A72 | David Kanter | 2015/02/08 12:39 AM |
ARM announces A72 | dmcq | 2015/02/08 04:14 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Michael S | 2015/02/08 04:38 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Gabriele Svelto | 2015/02/10 05:11 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Jouni Osmala | 2015/02/10 11:24 AM |
slit vs unified | Michael S | 2015/02/10 01:57 PM |
slit vs unified | dmcq | 2015/02/11 05:44 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Doug S | 2015/02/08 09:00 AM |
ARM announces A72 | Exophase | 2015/02/08 10:57 AM |
ARM announces A72 | dmcq | 2015/02/04 01:10 PM |
ARM announces A72 | David Kanter | 2015/02/04 02:28 PM |
ARM announces A72 | Wilco | 2015/02/04 01:59 PM |
ARM announces A72 | Aaron Spink | 2015/02/04 09:31 PM |
Intel 32nm vs 14 nm | Michael S | 2015/02/05 01:03 AM |
Intel 32nm vs 14 nm | Wilco | 2015/02/05 02:27 AM |
Intel 32nm vs 14 nm | David Kanter | 2015/02/05 09:05 AM |
Intel 32nm vs 14 nm | carop | 2015/02/05 11:12 AM |
Normalize to drawn or effective width? | David Kanter | 2015/02/05 11:45 AM |
Normalize to drawn or effective width? | carop | 2015/02/05 02:40 PM |
Normalize to drawn or effective width? | David Kanter | 2015/02/06 12:44 PM |