Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real world

By: Michael S (already5chosen.delete@this.yahoo.com), July 13, 2015 1:51 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
David Kanter (dkanter.delete@this.realworldtech.com) on July 12, 2015 10:34 pm wrote:
>
> If you look at IBM's zSeries, it's actually quite different than x86, due to IBM's emphasis on reliability.
> x86 has write-back L1 caches where the reliability is derived from the robust memory cells (8T design).

Is not 8T exclusively for Atoms?

>
> IBM zArch uses write-through caching for *all* SRAM-based caches (on some
> designs that meant L1, L2, and L3 were all write-through, and only L4 was
> write-back; on more recent ones, I think it's L1 & L2 are write-through).
>

Yes, that's correct. Z13 has write-through (store-through, in IBM speak) L1D and L2D caches, same as z196 and z296.

> This creates a huge amount of pressure on the L2 and L3 caches to handle the full store bandwidth of
> the machine. Look at bulldozer for an example of what happens when that doesn't quite work out.
>

Buldozer is sort of bearable. On Pentium4 it is, at times, really suffocating, partly because of small store queue and partly because hazards, imposed by store queue running out of space, are expensive.

> > In the case of ARM, I would say there is zero chance they did not re-examine the memory ordering model when
> > defining the 64-bit ISA, with *data* (at least from simulations)
> > rather than wives-tales, and they would have
> > taken input from Apple and their own designers (AFAIK Cortex cores do not do a lot of reordering anyway).
>
> Based on my conservations with designers, the ARM ordering model is advantageous for
> simpler cores...but for anything A15+ it's basically not an advantage over x86.
>

I'd think that the same applies to A5/A7/A53 although for different reasons.
Which leaves us, on ARMv8 side, with the future successor to A17 which is not even announced yet (or is it?).

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                    Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldMark Roulo2015/07/08 04:54 PM
                      Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worlddmcq2015/07/09 04:37 AM
                        Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldMark Roulo2015/07/09 08:24 AM
                          Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worlddmcq2015/07/09 10:09 AM
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                            Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldLinus Torvalds2015/07/09 12:14 PM
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                                Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldSimon Farnsworth2015/07/10 01:07 PM
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                                          Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worlddmcq2015/07/14 02:54 PM
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                                                    Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldLinus Torvalds2015/07/17 04:29 PM
                                                      Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worlddmcq2015/07/18 04:07 AM
                                          Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldJouni Osmala2015/07/16 03:52 AM
                                            Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldSimon Farnsworth2015/07/16 01:05 PM
                                              Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldJouni Osmala2015/07/17 01:18 AM
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                                  Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldanon2015/07/12 03:42 AM
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                                    Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldLinus Torvalds2015/07/12 11:24 AM
                                      Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldEduardoS2015/07/12 11:53 AM
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                                                    Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldEtienne2015/07/17 01:15 AM
                                                  Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worlddmcq2015/07/13 02:14 PM
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                                                  Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worlddmcq2015/07/13 03:24 PM
                                                    Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldEduardoS2015/07/13 04:48 PM
                                                      Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldMaynard Handley2015/07/13 07:18 PM
                                                        Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldEduardoS2015/07/13 07:57 PM
                                                      Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldanon2015/07/13 09:01 PM
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                                                  Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldWilco2015/07/13 04:36 PM
                                                    Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldEduardoS2015/07/13 04:56 PM
                                                      Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldanon2015/07/13 06:43 PM
                                                        Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldEduardoS2015/07/13 08:11 PM
                                                          Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldanon2015/07/13 09:07 PM
                                      Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldMaynard Handley2015/07/12 12:32 PM
                                        Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldEduardoS2015/07/12 01:35 PM
                                        Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldLinus Torvalds2015/07/12 01:38 PM
                                          Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldEduardoS2015/07/12 06:47 PM
                                            Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldNoSpammer2015/07/13 12:34 PM
                                              Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldWilco2015/07/13 04:50 PM
                                                Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldNoSpammer2015/07/14 02:02 PM
                                                  Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldanon2015/07/14 09:37 PM
                                                    Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldMichael S2015/07/15 01:19 AM
                                                      Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldanon2015/07/15 02:26 AM
                                                        Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldNoSpammer2015/07/15 07:05 AM
                                                          Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worlddmcq2015/07/15 08:04 AM
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                                                            Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldNoSpammer2015/07/15 12:50 PM
                                                              Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldLinus Torvalds2015/07/15 02:27 PM
                                                                Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldNoSpammer2015/07/15 03:14 PM
                                                                  Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldLinus Torvalds2015/07/15 05:42 PM
                                                      Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldNoSpammer2015/07/15 02:44 AM
                                                    Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldLinus Torvalds2015/07/15 02:17 PM
                                                      Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldWilco2015/07/15 02:43 PM
                                                        Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldanon2015/07/15 05:45 PM
                                                        Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldLinus Torvalds2015/07/15 06:35 PM
                                                          Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worlddmcq2015/07/16 02:46 AM
                                                            Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worlddmcq2015/07/16 02:49 AM
                                        Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldKonrad Schwarz2015/07/21 07:15 AM
                                      Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldanon2015/07/12 07:42 PM
                                        Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldanon2015/07/12 09:48 PM
                                        Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldDavid Kanter2015/07/12 10:34 PM
                                          Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldMichael S2015/07/13 01:51 AM
                                            Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldDavid Kanter2015/07/13 08:31 AM
                                          Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldanon2015/07/13 06:05 AM
                                            Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldGabriele Svelto2015/07/17 05:40 AM
                                          Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worlddmcq2015/07/13 08:09 AM
                                        Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldanon2015/07/13 07:46 AM
                                          Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldanon2015/07/14 04:12 AM
                                        Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worlddmcq2015/07/15 03:51 AM
                                          Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldanon2015/07/15 04:38 AM
                                            Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worlddmcq2015/07/15 06:21 AM
                                      Store queues in POWER/PowerPC processorsGabriele Svelto2015/07/16 01:55 AM
                                        Not sure about that conclusionDavid Kanter2015/07/16 07:34 AM
                                          The POWER4 had the same structureGabriele Svelto2015/07/17 05:20 AM
                                        Committing stores in program orderPaul A. Clayton2015/07/16 01:35 PM
                                          Committing stores in program orderMaynard Handley2015/07/17 12:52 PM
                                      Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldKonrad Schwarz2015/07/20 04:44 AM
                                        Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldanon2015/07/20 07:29 AM
                                          Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldKonrad Schwarz2015/07/21 12:08 AM
                                            Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worlddmcq2015/07/21 01:27 AM
                                            Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldMichael S2015/07/21 03:11 AM
                                              Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldKonrad Schwarz2015/07/21 05:24 AM
                                            Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldanon2015/07/21 06:22 AM
                                              Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldKonrad Schwarz2015/07/21 07:36 AM
                                                Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldanon2015/07/21 08:25 AM
                                              Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldanon2015/07/21 08:17 AM
                                                Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldanon2015/07/21 09:50 AM
                                                Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldGabriele Svelto2015/07/21 12:46 PM
                                                Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldKonrad Schwarz2015/07/22 12:35 AM
                                                  Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldKonrad Schwarz2015/07/22 01:37 AM
                                                  Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldanon2015/07/23 03:17 AM
                                                    Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldKonrad Schwarz2015/07/23 04:59 AM
                                                      Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldMichael S2015/07/23 07:31 AM
                                                        Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldKonrad Schwarz2015/07/23 03:38 PM
                                                          Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldKonrad Schwarz2015/07/23 11:44 PM
                                                            Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worlddmcq2015/07/24 01:08 AM
                                    Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worlddmcq2015/07/13 07:27 AM
                          Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldKonrad Schwarz2015/07/16 05:11 AM
                      Example of memory ordering causing excitement in the real worldAnonymousse2015/07/16 05:07 AM
          Benefit of dynamic hammock predicationsomeotherdude2015/07/06 05:12 PM
            Benefit of dynamic hammock predicationMichael S2015/07/07 01:19 AM
          Benefit of dynamic hammock predicationPatrick Chase2015/07/06 10:20 PM
            SIMD predication is also helpful, of course (NT)Paul A. Clayton2015/07/07 07:45 AM
        Power8 branch conversionGabriele Svelto2015/07/07 02:50 AM
          isel works for storesPaul A. Clayton2015/07/07 07:43 AM
            isel works for storesPatrick Chase2015/07/07 11:08 AM
            isel DOES NOT work for storessomeotherdude2015/07/07 04:01 PM
              isel DOES NOT work for storesWilco2015/07/07 04:40 PM
              Yes it doesPatrick Chase2015/07/07 11:14 PM
                Yes it doesvvid2015/07/08 09:51 AM
            You don't need isel eitherGabriele Svelto2015/07/08 02:01 AM
              You don't need isel eitherPaul A. Clayton2015/07/08 04:46 AM
                You don't need isel eitherGabriele Svelto2015/07/08 05:22 AM
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