5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?

By: Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org), October 2, 2015 3:07 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
David Kanter (dkanter.delete@this.realworldtech.com) on October 2, 2015 2:59 pm wrote:
> Wilco (Wilco.Dijkstra.delete@this.ntlworld.com) on October 2, 2015 1:48 pm wrote:
> > David Kanter (dkanter.delete@this.realworldtech.com) on October 1, 2015 4:49 pm wrote:
> > > Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org) on October 1, 2015 1:57 pm wrote:
> >
> > > > Of course Apple [and ARM in general] have the advantage of load-store pair which isn't
> > > > perfect (eg it's not going to help your vector throughput) but certainly helps in a large
> > > > set of common cases, and so reduces the pressure to amp up to Intel's 2+1 load/store.)
> > >
> > > Uh, LDP and STP mean its more likely that you want multiple load/store
> > > units. I'm not 100% sure of the semantics and benefits.
> >
> > No - it means you can achieve twice the bandwidth from a single load/store unit, and thus reduce
> > the need to add another.
>
> Can LDP/STP only target integer registers? The load/store units are
> only 128b wide, so you can't really do a double vector load.

The width of the load/store unit is not an architectural parameter. For all we know, the load/store in A9, for example, is 256b wide.

> > Many of the workloads in SPEC2006 do simple stride-1 accesses, so
> > LDP/STP is extremely effective there -
>
> What % of loads and stores are pairs?
>
> >besides making function entry/exit and all the memcpy
> > and string functions efficient of course.
>
> Memory and string functions should be using 128b vectors anyway. I see the
> biggest use case being for function calls and exits. But I could be convinced
> otherwise with data (or at least a better explanation of how it works).
>
> > There is also the advantage of fewer instructions
> > to decode, rename and execute, so even a design with 2 load/store units benefits.
>
> Does it truly decode into 1 uop on modern uarchs? I am a bit skeptical, since
> it targets two registers, and there is the potential for line/page crossing.
>
> > > For example, what happens if the pair loads target different pages?
> > > You'd need to do two separate translations through the TLB.
> >
> > Then the same thing happens as for any other load or store that crosses a page
> > or cacheline boundary. If you used 2 separate loads, you now have 3 accesses
> > for the split case rather than 2, so a wider load is always cheaper.
>
> My point is that handling this as two uops instead of one is much easier. I suspect the semantics for LDP/STP
> specifically do not guarantee atomic behavior, which makes me suspect it decodes into two uops.

All that (no atomic promises) means is that ARM wanted the flexibility to allow cheap implementations. You're doing a lot of mixing up "minimum of what the ISA requires" with "actual implementation even at the high end".

> David
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TopicPosted ByDate
Update to Intel Optimization ManualSHK2015/09/29 05:38 AM
  gather speedEric Bron2015/09/29 09:43 AM
    gather speedGabriele Svelto2015/09/29 12:00 PM
  Update to Intel Optimization ManualTim McCaffrey2015/09/29 11:18 AM
    Update to Intel Optimization ManualSHK2015/09/29 12:04 PM
      Update to Intel Optimization ManualAnon2015/09/29 02:23 PM
    Update to Intel Optimization Manualnone2015/09/29 10:31 PM
      Update to Intel Optimization ManualMichael S2015/09/30 04:24 AM
    Update to Intel Optimization ManualMichael S2015/09/30 04:30 AM
      Update to Intel Optimization ManualTim McCaffrey2015/09/30 10:01 AM
  5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Wouter Tinus2015/09/30 02:14 PM
    5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Maynard Handley2015/09/30 03:30 PM
      5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Alberto2015/10/01 12:13 AM
        5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?anon2015/10/01 02:21 AM
          5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Alberto2015/10/01 04:41 AM
            5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?anon2015/10/01 05:27 AM
              5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Alberto2015/10/01 08:33 AM
                5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?juanrga2015/10/01 10:24 AM
        5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Maynard Handley2015/10/01 08:57 AM
    5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?juanrga2015/10/01 03:59 AM
      5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Wouter Tinus2015/10/01 02:48 PM
        5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?juanrga2015/10/03 03:17 AM
          5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Wouter Tinus2015/10/03 11:19 AM
            Are you kidding? (NT)juanrga2015/10/04 05:30 AM
              Are you kidding?Wouter Tinus2015/10/04 03:18 PM
                Are you kidding?juanrga2015/10/05 09:46 AM
                  Are you kidding?David Kanter2015/10/05 11:24 AM
                    Are you kidding?anon2015/10/05 09:26 PM
                    Are you kidding?Linus Torvalds2015/10/07 04:49 AM
                      Are you kidding?juanrga2015/10/07 10:46 AM
                        Are you kidding?anon2015/10/07 06:21 PM
                  Are you kidding?Wouter Tinus2015/10/05 01:25 PM
                    Are you kidding?juanrga2015/10/06 10:17 AM
                      Are you kidding?Stubabe2015/10/07 12:17 AM
                        Are you kidding?juanrga2015/10/07 10:56 AM
                          Amazing...Wouter Tinus2015/10/07 11:31 AM
                            Amazing...juanrga2015/10/07 03:45 PM
                          Are you kidding?Stubabe2015/10/07 11:57 AM
                            Are you kidding?juanrga2015/10/07 03:59 PM
                          Are you kidding?Wilco2015/10/07 02:07 PM
                            Are you kidding?juanrga2015/10/07 04:33 PM
      5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Eric Bron2015/10/04 04:18 AM
    5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?David Kanter2015/10/01 09:01 AM
      Optimal number and kind of execution unitsjuanrga2015/10/01 10:50 AM
        Optimal number and kind of execution unitsPatrick Chase2015/10/01 04:38 PM
          Optimal number and kind of execution unitsI.S.T.2015/10/01 05:10 PM
            Optimal number and kind of execution unitsPatrick Chase2015/10/01 11:39 PM
          Optimal number and kind of execution unitsExophase2015/10/01 10:11 PM
          Optimal number and kind of execution unitsjuanrga2015/10/02 05:14 AM
      LD/ST unitsSHK2015/10/01 11:11 AM
        LD/ST unitsDavid Kanter2015/10/01 12:54 PM
          LD/ST unitsSHK2015/10/02 04:55 AM
            LD/ST unitsJukka Larja2015/10/02 09:49 PM
        LD/ST unitsMaynard Handley2015/10/01 01:01 PM
          LD/ST unitsanon2015/10/01 09:54 PM
      5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Maynard Handley2015/10/01 12:57 PM
        5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?David Kanter2015/10/01 03:49 PM
          5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Maynard Handley2015/10/01 06:21 PM
          5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Exophase2015/10/01 10:07 PM
            5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Maynard Handley2015/10/02 12:10 AM
              5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Megol2015/10/02 03:39 AM
                5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Michael S2015/10/02 04:27 AM
                5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Maynard Handley2015/10/02 09:37 AM
                  5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?noko2015/10/02 05:19 PM
              5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Exophase2015/10/02 06:43 AM
                5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Maynard Handley2015/10/02 09:45 AM
                  5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Exophase2015/10/02 10:23 AM
          5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Wilco2015/10/02 12:48 PM
            5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Maynard Handley2015/10/02 01:25 PM
              5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Wilco2015/10/02 02:26 PM
              5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?noko2015/10/02 05:45 PM
                5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Maynard Handley2015/10/02 06:54 PM
            5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?David Kanter2015/10/02 01:59 PM
              5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Wilco2015/10/02 02:59 PM
                5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?David Kanter2015/10/02 03:15 PM
                  5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Wilco2015/10/02 04:06 PM
                    LDP/STP usage in AArch64 for 403.gccnone2015/10/03 01:04 AM
                      LDP/STP usage in AArch64 for 403.gccWilco2015/10/03 03:02 AM
                        LDP/STP usage in AArch64 for 403.gccnone2015/10/03 03:11 AM
                          LDP/STP usage in AArch64 for 403.gccWilco2015/10/03 03:37 AM
                            LDP/STP usage in AArch64 for 403.gccnone2015/10/03 04:37 AM
                              LDP/STP usage in AArch64 for 403.gccWilco2015/10/03 05:26 AM
                  5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Maynard Handley2015/10/02 04:24 PM
              5-6 wide core, why no mention from Intel?Maynard Handley2015/10/02 03:07 PM
  Update to Intel Optimization Manualanon2015/09/30 04:43 PM
  Update to Intel Optimization ManualPatrick Chase2015/09/30 09:44 PM
    Update to Intel Optimization Manualanon2015/09/30 10:49 PM
    Update to Intel Optimization Manualnone2015/09/30 10:50 PM
    Update to Intel Optimization ManualDavid Kanter2015/10/01 12:52 PM
      Update to Intel Optimization ManualPatrick Chase2015/10/01 04:16 PM
        Update to Intel Optimization Manualanon2015/10/01 10:45 PM
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