Branch/jump target prediction

By: Linus Torvalds (torvalds.delete@this.linux-foundation.org), August 14, 2016 9:40 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
⚛ (0xe2.0x9a.0x9b.delete@this.gmail.com) on August 14, 2016 5:24 am wrote:
>
> Transmeta also didn't demonstrate 2x speedups even for trivial Python computational loops.

We effectively never got 2x speedups on any real loads, sad to say.

We got nice speedups in really tight loops (not Python) where we could also fix pure stupidities in the code and take advantage of our all-or-nothing transactional behavior to really remove code. It happened, but it was rare enough to not help.

> uop cache in Skylake is still too primitive to speedup [anything
> having obvious computational redundancy] by a large margin.

That's not the point of a uop cache.

You don't seem to understand the difference between a uop cache (~ single instruction) and a trace cache.

The uop cache clearly helps (and particularly power) on very tight loops. It's a better loop cache. It's not trying to do computational redundancy like TMTA did, and it's not trying to avoid runtime instruction scheduling redundancy like P4 did.

> You know which branches are predictable from the programmer and/or from the previous
> runs.

Bullshit again.

This has been disproven over and over again.

Programmers really don't know. They get it wrong all the time. There are academic papers on it, if you don't trust the real world experience.

Profile-directed compilers do know, but generally only for a well-defined set of inputs, and we've seen them get it horribly wrong. Even on trivial benchmarks like Spec. You get nice PGO speedups for the benchmark, and much less nice for real world.

In the real world, every single "let's tell the CPU what the prediction is" has been a complete disaster. There are no sane CPU designers that believe in that fairy tale.

Just as an example, Intel for a while had this notion of using instruction prefixes to let people mark branch prediction information. Guess what? It's not used by current CPU's because it quickly turned out to be pure garbage.

So no. You do not know what branches are predictable. Anybody who thinks they know is incompetent.

> The fact is x86 ISA has no programmer-visible mechanism for saving such information.

Bullshit again. See above. You simply don't know shit. Real life is tough.

At what point do you just admit that you don't have a f*cking clue about what you are talking about?

Linus
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TopicPosted ByDate
Branch/jump target predictionTravis2016/08/09 09:44 AM
  Early decode of unconditional jumpsPeter Cordes2016/08/09 11:35 AM
    Early decode of unconditional jumpsExophase2016/08/09 12:29 PM
  pipelines are too long, noHeikki Kultala2016/08/09 11:37 AM
    pipelines are too long, nono name2016/08/09 06:17 PM
      pipelines are too long, noWilco2016/08/10 01:43 AM
        pipelines are too long, noPaul A. Clayton2016/08/10 07:44 PM
    Converged BTB/IcachePaul A. Clayton2016/08/10 07:44 PM
  Branch/jump target predictionsylt2016/08/10 02:27 AM
    Branch/jump target predictionPeter Cordes2016/08/12 03:23 PM
      Branch/jump target predictionsylt2016/08/12 10:35 PM
  Branch/jump target predictionMr. Camel2016/08/10 09:43 AM
    Branch/jump target predictionLinus Torvalds2016/08/10 11:46 AM
      Branch/jump target predictionMegol2016/08/10 02:25 PM
        Branch/jump target predictionLinus Torvalds2016/08/10 04:14 PM
          Branch/jump target predictionDavid Kanter2016/08/11 11:09 PM
            Branch/jump target predictionLinus Torvalds2016/08/12 11:25 AM
          Branch/jump target prediction2016/08/14 04:24 AM
            Branch/jump target predictionMaynard Handley2016/08/14 06:47 AM
              Branch/jump target predictionDavid Kanter2016/08/14 07:13 AM
              Branch/jump target prediction2016/08/16 05:19 AM
            Branch/jump target predictionTim McCaffrey2016/08/14 07:12 AM
              Branch/jump target predictionDavid Kanter2016/08/14 07:18 AM
                Branch/jump target predictionGabriele Svelto2016/08/14 01:09 PM
            Just a thoughtAnon2016/08/14 09:40 AM
              Just a thought2016/08/16 05:58 AM
                Just a thoughtAnon2016/08/16 07:45 AM
                  Just a thought2016/08/16 08:36 AM
            Branch/jump target predictionLinus Torvalds2016/08/14 09:40 AM
              Branch/jump target prediction2016/08/16 05:40 AM
                Branch/jump target predictionRicardo B2016/08/16 06:39 AM
                  Branch/jump target prediction -82016/08/16 08:23 AM
                    Branch/jump target prediction -8anon2016/08/16 09:09 AM
                    Branch/jump target prediction -8Ricardo B2016/08/16 09:33 AM
                      Branch/jump target prediction -8Exophase2016/08/16 10:02 AM
                        Branch/jump target prediction -8Ricardo B2016/08/16 10:31 AM
                        SPU hbr instruction (hint for branch)vvid2016/08/16 11:31 AM
                        Branch/jump target prediction -8no name2016/08/17 07:16 AM
                    Branch/jump target prediction -8Gabriele Svelto2016/08/16 10:46 AM
                      Branch/jump target prediction -8Etienne2016/08/17 12:27 AM
                        Branch/jump target prediction -8Gabriele Svelto2016/08/17 02:52 AM
                    Branch/jump target prediction -8Maynard Handley2016/08/18 09:02 AM
                      Branch/jump target prediction -82016/08/18 05:21 PM
                        Branch/jump target prediction -8Maynard Handley2016/08/18 06:27 PM
                          Branch/jump target prediction -8Megol2016/08/19 03:29 AM
                          Part 1/N - CPU-internal JIT2016/08/19 03:44 AM
                        Atom, you're such a comedian.Jim Trent2016/08/18 09:39 PM
                          Atom, you're such a comedian.2016/08/19 02:23 AM
                      Branch/jump target prediction -8Etienne2016/08/19 12:25 AM
                        Branch/jump target prediction -8Simon Farnsworth2016/08/19 03:17 AM
                          Branch/jump target prediction -8Michael S2016/08/19 05:39 AM
                          Branch/jump target prediction -8anon2016/08/19 06:29 AM
                            Branch/jump target prediction -8Simon Farnsworth2016/08/19 07:34 AM
                              Branch/jump target prediction -8anon2016/08/19 07:48 AM
                                Branch/jump target prediction -8Exophase2016/08/19 10:03 AM
                                Branch/jump target prediction -8Maynard Handley2016/08/19 10:34 AM
                            Branch/jump target prediction -8David Kanter2016/08/19 11:23 PM
                        Branch/jump target prediction -8Ricardo B2016/08/19 06:18 AM
                          Branch/jump target prediction -8Maynard Handley2016/08/19 07:41 AM
                            Branch/jump target prediction -8Michael S2016/08/19 08:26 AM
                              Branch/jump target prediction -8Maynard Handley2016/08/19 12:47 PM
                                Branch/jump target prediction -8Michael S2016/08/21 12:53 AM
                                  Branch/jump target prediction -8Ricardo B2016/08/22 04:17 AM
                                    Branch/jump target prediction -8Michael S2016/08/22 04:58 AM
                                      Branch/jump target prediction -8Ricardo B2016/08/22 06:50 AM
                            Branch/jump target prediction -8Simon Farnsworth2016/08/19 08:28 AM
                              Branch/jump target prediction -8Simon Farnsworth2016/08/19 08:40 AM
                            Branch/jump target prediction -8David Kanter2016/08/22 11:05 PM
                              Branch/jump target prediction -8Maynard Handley2016/08/23 06:49 AM
                      Branch/jump target prediction -8anon2016/08/26 07:00 AM
                        Branch/jump target prediction -8anon2016/08/26 07:14 AM
                Branch/jump target predictionMegol2016/08/19 03:23 AM
          Branch/jump target predictionMegol2016/08/19 06:42 AM
            Branch/jump target predictionMaynard Handley2016/08/19 10:46 AM
              Branch/jump target predictionDavid Kanter2016/08/19 11:34 PM
                Branch/jump target predictionMaynard Handley2016/08/20 06:07 AM
            Branch/jump target predictionsylt2016/08/19 10:48 AM
              Branch/jump target predictionsylt2016/08/19 11:00 AM
              Branch/jump target predictionMegol2016/08/21 09:27 AM
                The (apparent) state of trace caches on modern CPUsMaynard Handley2016/08/22 02:10 PM
                  The (apparent) state of trace caches on modern CPUsExophase2016/08/22 07:55 PM
                    The (apparent) state of trace caches on modern CPUsanon2016/08/22 11:36 PM
                      The (apparent) state of trace caches on modern CPUsExophase2016/08/23 04:08 AM
                        The (apparent) state of trace caches on modern CPUsanon2016/08/23 08:51 PM
                          The (apparent) state of trace caches on modern CPUsExophase2016/08/23 10:12 PM
                          The (apparent) state of trace caches on modern CPUsMaynard Handley2016/08/24 06:38 AM
                            The (apparent) state of trace caches on modern CPUsanon2016/08/24 07:26 PM
                    The (apparent) state of trace caches on modern CPUsMaynard Handley2016/08/23 06:48 AM
                      That's not trueDavid Kanter2016/08/23 08:39 AM
                        That's not trueMaynard Handley2016/08/23 08:56 AM
                      The (apparent) state of trace caches on modern CPUsanon2016/08/23 08:54 PM
                  The (wrong) state of trace caches on modern CPUsEric Bron2016/08/25 01:38 AM
                    The (wrong) state of trace caches on modern CPUsMichael S2016/08/25 02:28 AM
                      The (wrong) state of trace caches on modern CPUsEric Bron2016/08/25 06:12 AM
                      The (wrong) state of trace caches on modern CPUsMaynard Handley2016/08/25 08:50 AM
                        The (wrong) state of trace caches on modern CPUsMichael S2016/08/25 09:36 AM
                          The (wrong) state of trace caches on modern CPUsExophase2016/08/25 10:32 AM
                        The (wrong) state of trace caches on modern CPUsEric Bron2016/08/25 10:12 AM
                          The (wrong) state of trace caches on modern CPUsMaynard Handley2016/08/25 11:01 AM
                            The (wrong) state of trace caches on modern CPUsEric Bron2016/08/25 11:20 AM
                              The (wrong) state of trace caches on modern CPUsMaynard Handley2016/08/25 12:34 PM
        Branch/jump target predictionGabriele Svelto2016/08/11 12:15 PM
  Branch/jump target predictionGabriele Svelto2016/08/20 06:21 AM
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