Branch/jump target prediction -8

By: Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org), August 19, 2016 7:41 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Ricardo B (ricardo.b.delete@this.xxxxx.xx) on August 19, 2016 7:18 am wrote:
> Etienne (etienne_lorrain.delete@this.yahoo.fr) on August 19, 2016 1:25 am wrote:
> > Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org) on August 18, 2016 10:02 am wrote:
> > > What provides more value is fixing the remaining problems
> > > in this fetch pipeline. These might include things like
> >
> > Wouldn't it be worthwhile, because it seems technology has reach a point where fetching
> > those "unit of code" (i.e. assembly instructions) very optimised, to make more work
> > in each "unit of code" (so they can take more time to do more usefull stuff).
> > Obviously it would not be with the same assembly instruction set, but if you had integer operations
> > with saturation (could also be programmable saturation at for instance [0..4095]), integer division
> > with round-up, round-down and round nearest - then the compiler would not need to generate so many
> > simple assembly instructions with so many jumps, which seems so difficult to fetch.
>
> Yes, it's worthwhile.
> But it has already been done.
>
> Eg, any modern architecture has conditional move or min/max instructions which the
> compilers can and do use to implement saturation arithmetic without branches.
> Some had even more sophisticated methods in the form of general purpose predication.
>
> Eg, GCC output for adding two numbers and saturating the result into a range:
>
> leal (%rsi,%rdi), %edi
> cmpl %edi, %ecx
> movl %edi, %eax
> cmovle %ecx, %eax
> movl %edx, %ecx
> negl %ecx
> cmpl %ecx, %eax
> cmovle %edx, %eax
> ret
>

>
> The problem is that for anything more than this type of minimal use, it's faster to branch
> and risk the penalty than to execute a number of potentially useless instructions.
>

[[
Simon Farnsworth (simon.delete@this.farnz.org.uk) on August 19, 2016 4:17 am wrote:
>
> I'm not entirely clear on what code constructs to avoid with OOO, beyond the obvious of keeping
> your dependency chains under control - OOO can't help you if, within the OOO window, it can't find
> enough µops to execute. OTOH, compilers are now pretty good at helping you out here, so...
>

That's one of the reasons why extensive use of branch avoidance techniques, as suggested above by Maynard, is not a very good idea.
]]

WTF do you (Farnsworth) insist on misrepresenting what I said? What value is there in this?

Did I talk about "extensive use of branch avoidance techniques"?
Or did I suggest exactly what Ricardo B is talking about --- extremely short instruction sequences using csel/cmov to avoid likely unpredictable (because data-dependent) branches? Basically use csel/cmov when the point of the branch is value calculation rather than control redirection?
< Previous Post in ThreadNext Post in Thread >
TopicPosted ByDate
Branch/jump target predictionTravis2016/08/09 09:44 AM
  Early decode of unconditional jumpsPeter Cordes2016/08/09 11:35 AM
    Early decode of unconditional jumpsExophase2016/08/09 12:29 PM
  pipelines are too long, noHeikki Kultala2016/08/09 11:37 AM
    pipelines are too long, nono name2016/08/09 06:17 PM
      pipelines are too long, noWilco2016/08/10 01:43 AM
        pipelines are too long, noPaul A. Clayton2016/08/10 07:44 PM
    Converged BTB/IcachePaul A. Clayton2016/08/10 07:44 PM
  Branch/jump target predictionsylt2016/08/10 02:27 AM
    Branch/jump target predictionPeter Cordes2016/08/12 03:23 PM
      Branch/jump target predictionsylt2016/08/12 10:35 PM
  Branch/jump target predictionMr. Camel2016/08/10 09:43 AM
    Branch/jump target predictionLinus Torvalds2016/08/10 11:46 AM
      Branch/jump target predictionMegol2016/08/10 02:25 PM
        Branch/jump target predictionLinus Torvalds2016/08/10 04:14 PM
          Branch/jump target predictionDavid Kanter2016/08/11 11:09 PM
            Branch/jump target predictionLinus Torvalds2016/08/12 11:25 AM
          Branch/jump target prediction2016/08/14 04:24 AM
            Branch/jump target predictionMaynard Handley2016/08/14 06:47 AM
              Branch/jump target predictionDavid Kanter2016/08/14 07:13 AM
              Branch/jump target prediction2016/08/16 05:19 AM
            Branch/jump target predictionTim McCaffrey2016/08/14 07:12 AM
              Branch/jump target predictionDavid Kanter2016/08/14 07:18 AM
                Branch/jump target predictionGabriele Svelto2016/08/14 01:09 PM
            Just a thoughtAnon2016/08/14 09:40 AM
              Just a thought2016/08/16 05:58 AM
                Just a thoughtAnon2016/08/16 07:45 AM
                  Just a thought2016/08/16 08:36 AM
            Branch/jump target predictionLinus Torvalds2016/08/14 09:40 AM
              Branch/jump target prediction2016/08/16 05:40 AM
                Branch/jump target predictionRicardo B2016/08/16 06:39 AM
                  Branch/jump target prediction -82016/08/16 08:23 AM
                    Branch/jump target prediction -8anon2016/08/16 09:09 AM
                    Branch/jump target prediction -8Ricardo B2016/08/16 09:33 AM
                      Branch/jump target prediction -8Exophase2016/08/16 10:02 AM
                        Branch/jump target prediction -8Ricardo B2016/08/16 10:31 AM
                        SPU hbr instruction (hint for branch)vvid2016/08/16 11:31 AM
                        Branch/jump target prediction -8no name2016/08/17 07:16 AM
                    Branch/jump target prediction -8Gabriele Svelto2016/08/16 10:46 AM
                      Branch/jump target prediction -8Etienne2016/08/17 12:27 AM
                        Branch/jump target prediction -8Gabriele Svelto2016/08/17 02:52 AM
                    Branch/jump target prediction -8Maynard Handley2016/08/18 09:02 AM
                      Branch/jump target prediction -82016/08/18 05:21 PM
                        Branch/jump target prediction -8Maynard Handley2016/08/18 06:27 PM
                          Branch/jump target prediction -8Megol2016/08/19 03:29 AM
                          Part 1/N - CPU-internal JIT2016/08/19 03:44 AM
                        Atom, you're such a comedian.Jim Trent2016/08/18 09:39 PM
                          Atom, you're such a comedian.2016/08/19 02:23 AM
                      Branch/jump target prediction -8Etienne2016/08/19 12:25 AM
                        Branch/jump target prediction -8Simon Farnsworth2016/08/19 03:17 AM
                          Branch/jump target prediction -8Michael S2016/08/19 05:39 AM
                          Branch/jump target prediction -8anon2016/08/19 06:29 AM
                            Branch/jump target prediction -8Simon Farnsworth2016/08/19 07:34 AM
                              Branch/jump target prediction -8anon2016/08/19 07:48 AM
                                Branch/jump target prediction -8Exophase2016/08/19 10:03 AM
                                Branch/jump target prediction -8Maynard Handley2016/08/19 10:34 AM
                            Branch/jump target prediction -8David Kanter2016/08/19 11:23 PM
                        Branch/jump target prediction -8Ricardo B2016/08/19 06:18 AM
                          Branch/jump target prediction -8Maynard Handley2016/08/19 07:41 AM
                            Branch/jump target prediction -8Michael S2016/08/19 08:26 AM
                              Branch/jump target prediction -8Maynard Handley2016/08/19 12:47 PM
                                Branch/jump target prediction -8Michael S2016/08/21 12:53 AM
                                  Branch/jump target prediction -8Ricardo B2016/08/22 04:17 AM
                                    Branch/jump target prediction -8Michael S2016/08/22 04:58 AM
                                      Branch/jump target prediction -8Ricardo B2016/08/22 06:50 AM
                            Branch/jump target prediction -8Simon Farnsworth2016/08/19 08:28 AM
                              Branch/jump target prediction -8Simon Farnsworth2016/08/19 08:40 AM
                            Branch/jump target prediction -8David Kanter2016/08/22 11:05 PM
                              Branch/jump target prediction -8Maynard Handley2016/08/23 06:49 AM
                      Branch/jump target prediction -8anon2016/08/26 07:00 AM
                        Branch/jump target prediction -8anon2016/08/26 07:14 AM
                Branch/jump target predictionMegol2016/08/19 03:23 AM
          Branch/jump target predictionMegol2016/08/19 06:42 AM
            Branch/jump target predictionMaynard Handley2016/08/19 10:46 AM
              Branch/jump target predictionDavid Kanter2016/08/19 11:34 PM
                Branch/jump target predictionMaynard Handley2016/08/20 06:07 AM
            Branch/jump target predictionsylt2016/08/19 10:48 AM
              Branch/jump target predictionsylt2016/08/19 11:00 AM
              Branch/jump target predictionMegol2016/08/21 09:27 AM
                The (apparent) state of trace caches on modern CPUsMaynard Handley2016/08/22 02:10 PM
                  The (apparent) state of trace caches on modern CPUsExophase2016/08/22 07:55 PM
                    The (apparent) state of trace caches on modern CPUsanon2016/08/22 11:36 PM
                      The (apparent) state of trace caches on modern CPUsExophase2016/08/23 04:08 AM
                        The (apparent) state of trace caches on modern CPUsanon2016/08/23 08:51 PM
                          The (apparent) state of trace caches on modern CPUsExophase2016/08/23 10:12 PM
                          The (apparent) state of trace caches on modern CPUsMaynard Handley2016/08/24 06:38 AM
                            The (apparent) state of trace caches on modern CPUsanon2016/08/24 07:26 PM
                    The (apparent) state of trace caches on modern CPUsMaynard Handley2016/08/23 06:48 AM
                      That's not trueDavid Kanter2016/08/23 08:39 AM
                        That's not trueMaynard Handley2016/08/23 08:56 AM
                      The (apparent) state of trace caches on modern CPUsanon2016/08/23 08:54 PM
                  The (wrong) state of trace caches on modern CPUsEric Bron2016/08/25 01:38 AM
                    The (wrong) state of trace caches on modern CPUsMichael S2016/08/25 02:28 AM
                      The (wrong) state of trace caches on modern CPUsEric Bron2016/08/25 06:12 AM
                      The (wrong) state of trace caches on modern CPUsMaynard Handley2016/08/25 08:50 AM
                        The (wrong) state of trace caches on modern CPUsMichael S2016/08/25 09:36 AM
                          The (wrong) state of trace caches on modern CPUsExophase2016/08/25 10:32 AM
                        The (wrong) state of trace caches on modern CPUsEric Bron2016/08/25 10:12 AM
                          The (wrong) state of trace caches on modern CPUsMaynard Handley2016/08/25 11:01 AM
                            The (wrong) state of trace caches on modern CPUsEric Bron2016/08/25 11:20 AM
                              The (wrong) state of trace caches on modern CPUsMaynard Handley2016/08/25 12:34 PM
        Branch/jump target predictionGabriele Svelto2016/08/11 12:15 PM
  Branch/jump target predictionGabriele Svelto2016/08/20 06:21 AM
Reply to this Topic
Name:
Email:
Topic:
Body: No Text
How do you spell tangerine? 🍊