ARM-based supercomputers

By: dmcq (dmcq.delete@this.fano.co.uk), January 24, 2017 10:10 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
RichardC (tich.delete@this.pobox.com) on January 24, 2017 9:34 am wrote:
> Aaron Spink (aaronspink.delete@this.notearthlink.net) on January 24, 2017 7:20 am wrote:
>
> > Well the TB+ DRAM if you followed the thread was supposed to be total system memory and
> > pointing out that phone/tablet SOCs don't have ecc on memory, which would be a problem.
>
> It's definitely nice to have ECC on DRAM, just as it is on servers. And phone SoCs don't
> have the interconnect you would want either - so it (almost certainly) isn't going to be
> an unmodified phone SoC. But it can be something quite closely related to parts of a phone
> SoC/server SoC.
>
> > As far as memory per node goes, general ratios you see are
> > in the 1 GB of memory per 20 GFLOPs of performance
> > modulo some baseline memory overhead requirements (aka if you are only doing 1 GFLOP, you probably sill
> > need 1GB of memory...) So a 2 TFLOP node (DP) will likely require ~100GB of memory or so.
>
> That's a circular argument. For a machine which can deals with a wide variety of problems,
> it's reasonable. For a more specialized machine, it can be huge overkill. For example,
> a GTX 1080 w/ 9TFLOPS single-precision and 8GB, for a ratio of 1GB to 1125GFLOPS, which is
> about 56x away from your figure. Or consider dedicated bitcoin-mining rigs, which have a
> whole bunch of parallel-hashing ASICs and no DRAM (and in that case a fairly
> trivial interconnect such as a single USB link up to a master machine).
>
> So you're assuming it's a machine which can handle the same kinds of problems as a big cluster
> of Xeon-based nodes, and then you're criticizing the ARM-based chips for not having
> the same capabilities as Xeons. But this is a more specialized architecture optimized
> to give better price-performance on a narrow subset of problems. There'd be no
> point if it was the same - being different is what makes it interesting.
>
> > Also, the networking at 10k nodes get very expensive, you aren't going to do that for $100 per
> > node. A 48 port 10G switch will set you back 5k+ easy and you are going to need a lot of them,
> > a whole whole lot of them depending on topology.
>
> Again, you're making assumptions about what the network has to look like, and your assumptions
> are based on being able to run a wide variety of applications, some of which
> have a high ratio of communication/compute.
>
> This kind of system would probably look very different: first, it would have a large number
> of nodes on each board, e.g. 16 or 32 nodes, possibly with some cheap local interconnect
> (e.g. PCIe switch chips). PCIe can also go between boards in a rack, within reason.
> But maybe you only target applications with sufficiently low communication/compute that
> 2 x 10Gbit out of a 4U box, or between racks, is enough.
>
> > 100 48p 40g switches at 10-20k per. Total would be ~$2-3M for the switches. Most supercomputers
> > end up spending roughly the same on networking as they do on the nodes.
>
> Right, but the point of this is to build a system optimized for particular problems
> which don't need everything that a rackful-of-Xeon's give you.
>
> *If* you assume that you need an expensive interconnect, then the argument for using
> unorthodox high-throughput-per-dollar or high-throughput-per-watt cpu's goes away.
> So unorthodox cpu's are appropriate *only* for systems which also have an unorthodox
> (cheaper, lower-bandwidth) interconnect *and* cheaper (fewer GB per TFLOPS) DRAM.
> Which in turn means that it only works well for a subset of applications,
> but if CFD is what you need and it works for CFD, then it's all good.

I think Fujitsu is targeting a pretty general type supercomputer design with its Post-K CPU, basically something huge that is flexible enough to deal with all sorts of different HPC problems.

< Previous Post in ThreadNext Post in Thread >
TopicPosted ByDate
Cray to Develop ARM-based Isambard Supercomputer for UK Met Officegallier22017/01/20 07:48 AM
  Cray to Develop ARM-based Isambard Supercomputer for UK Met Officegallier22017/01/20 07:48 AM
    Ignore second post (NT)gallier22017/01/20 07:49 AM
  ARM-based supercomputersDavid Kanter2017/01/20 02:55 PM
    ARM-based supercomputersMaynard Handley2017/01/20 08:55 PM
      ARM-based supercomputers lolRobert David Graham2017/01/21 05:34 PM
        ARM-based supercomputers lolnone2017/01/21 06:44 PM
          ARM-based supercomputers lolMaynard Handley2017/01/21 07:36 PM
            ARM-based supercomputers lolMichael S2017/01/22 02:07 AM
            What did you learn?Innocent Bystander2017/01/22 08:26 AM
          ARM-based supercomputers lolanon2017/01/22 02:24 AM
            ARM-based supercomputers lolGabriele Svelto2017/01/23 12:53 AM
              ARM-based supercomputers lolanon2017/01/23 06:40 AM
            ARM-based supercomputers loljuanrga2017/01/29 05:01 AM
              ARM-based supercomputers lolanon2017/01/29 09:35 AM
        ARM-based supercomputers lolBrendan2017/01/21 07:36 PM
         Dumb belief? ROFL (NT)juanrga2017/01/22 02:59 AM
          Dumb belief? ROFLwumpus2017/01/22 11:31 AM
            Dumb belief? ROFLjuanrga2017/01/29 05:13 AM
        ARM-based supercomputers lolDavid Kanter2017/01/22 08:20 AM
    ARM-based supercomputersRichardC2017/01/22 07:54 AM
      ARM-based supercomputersAaron Spink2017/01/22 12:03 PM
        ARM-based supercomputersNiels Jørgen Kruse2017/01/22 12:16 PM
          ARM-based supercomputersAaron Spink2017/01/23 07:01 PM
            ARM-based supercomputersNiels Jørgen Kruse2017/01/23 10:41 PM
              ARM-based supercomputerstarlinian2017/01/24 08:58 AM
                ARM-based supercomputersMichael S2017/01/24 09:05 AM
                  ARM-based supercomputersAaron Spink2017/01/24 10:38 AM
        ARM-based supercomputersdmcq2017/01/22 01:03 PM
          A73 does not have L1 ECCDavid Kanter2017/01/22 09:50 PM
            A73 does not have L1 ECCdmcq2017/01/23 03:32 PM
              A73 does not have L1 ECCMichael S2017/01/23 03:50 PM
              A73 does not have L1 ECCdmcq2017/01/24 08:15 AM
                A73 does not have L1 ECCMichael S2017/01/24 08:47 AM
          ARM SOCs with ECC DRAMMichael S2017/01/23 03:17 AM
          ARM-based supercomputersAaron Spink2017/01/23 07:02 PM
            X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryvvid2017/01/24 01:55 AM
              X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryWilco2017/01/24 02:13 AM
                You seem to be confusing "SoC" with "CPU core" (NT)Anon2017/01/24 03:12 AM
                X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryMichael S2017/01/24 05:26 AM
                  X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memorydmcq2017/01/24 08:28 AM
                X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryAaron Spink2017/01/24 06:46 AM
                  X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryWilco2017/01/24 03:10 PM
                    X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryDavid Kanter2017/01/24 07:31 PM
                X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memorySimon Farnsworth2017/01/26 02:23 AM
              X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryAaron Spink2017/01/24 06:44 AM
                X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryAnon2017/01/24 01:54 PM
                  X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryWilco2017/01/24 03:07 PM
                    X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryDavid Kanter2017/01/24 07:34 PM
                      X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memorynone2017/01/24 10:48 PM
                        X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryMichael S2017/01/25 01:32 AM
                        X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryDavid Hess2017/01/25 09:47 PM
                          X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryMichael S2017/01/26 12:55 AM
                            Really that different?Daniel B2017/01/26 03:37 AM
                              Really that different?none2017/01/26 05:39 AM
                                Really that different?itsmydamnation2017/01/26 03:55 PM
                                  Really that different?none2017/01/26 11:14 PM
                      X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryWilco2017/01/25 03:22 AM
                        Sharing between servers and phonesDavid Kanter2017/01/25 07:15 AM
                          Sharing between servers and phonesWilco2017/01/25 04:41 PM
                            Sharing between servers and phonesDavid Kanter2017/01/25 06:10 PM
                              Sharing between servers and phonesGabriele Svelto2017/01/26 03:15 AM
                                Sharing between servers and phonesDavid Kanter2017/01/26 07:33 AM
                                  Sharing between servers and phoneswumpus2017/01/26 03:25 PM
                                    Sharing between servers and phonesDavid Kanter2017/01/27 06:46 AM
                                      Any idea why Intel doesn't ship server chips with eDRAM?Mark Roulo2017/01/27 09:02 AM
                                        Any idea why Intel doesn't ship server chips with eDRAM?Per Hesselgren2017/01/28 06:49 AM
                                          Any idea why Intel doesn't ship server chips with eDRAM?Simon Farnsworth2017/01/28 07:06 AM
                                          Any idea why Intel doesn't ship server chips with eDRAM?Michael S2017/01/29 02:43 AM
                                            off die eDRAM?wumpus2017/01/29 06:57 AM
                                              off die eDRAM?anon2017/01/29 09:46 AM
                                      Sharing between servers and phonesrwessel2017/01/27 10:36 PM
                                      Sharing between servers and phonesLinus Torvalds2017/01/28 11:49 AM
                                        Sharing between servers and phonesrwessel2017/01/29 08:56 PM
                                          Sharing between servers and phonesLinus Torvalds2017/01/30 10:01 AM
                                            Sharing between servers and phonesrwessel2017/01/31 12:29 AM
                                              Sharing between servers and phonesIreland2017/01/31 07:55 AM
                                                Please keep your posts on topicDavid Kanter2017/01/31 11:32 AM
                                                  Technology that can survive in harsh conditionsIreland2017/01/31 12:51 PM
                                                    Stay on topic, you have been warnedDavid Kanter2017/01/31 06:56 PM
                                                On topic summary and my thoughts on it. Jouni Osmala2017/01/31 01:10 PM
                                                  On topic summary and my thoughts on it. Ireland2017/01/31 01:27 PM
                                              Sharing between servers and phonesLinus Torvalds2017/01/31 01:01 PM
                                                Sharing between servers and phonesLinus Torvalds2017/01/31 01:49 PM
                                                  Sharing between servers and phonesDoug S2017/01/31 02:12 PM
                                                Sharing between servers and phonesrwessel2017/01/31 05:54 PM
                                                  Sharing between servers and phonesLinus Torvalds2017/02/01 09:17 AM
                                                    Sharing between servers and phonesrwessel2017/02/02 03:40 PM
                                                  Sharing between servers and phonesjoncmu2017/02/01 01:36 PM
                                                    Sharing between servers and phonesChristian Borntraeger2017/02/02 03:46 AM
            ARM-based supercomputersRichardC2017/01/24 05:50 AM
              ARM-based supercomputersAaron Spink2017/01/24 07:20 AM
                ARM-based supercomputersdmcq2017/01/24 08:44 AM
                  ARM-based supercomputersnone2017/01/24 09:10 AM
                  ARM-based supercomputersjuanrga2017/01/29 05:33 AM
                    ARM-based supercomputershobel2017/01/30 02:35 AM
                ARM-based supercomputersRichardC2017/01/24 09:34 AM
                  ARM-based supercomputersdmcq2017/01/24 10:10 AM
                  ARM-based supercomputersAaron Spink2017/01/24 11:01 AM
                    ARM-based supercomputersRichardC2017/01/24 04:06 PM
                      ARM-based supercomputersIreland2017/01/24 05:16 PM
                      ARM-based supercomputersAaron Spink2017/01/24 07:43 PM
                    video renderingRichardC2017/01/24 05:08 PM
                      video renderingIreland2017/01/24 05:26 PM
                      video renderingAaron Spink2017/01/24 07:54 PM
                        video renderingRichardC2017/01/25 04:26 AM
                          display bandwidthRichardC2017/01/25 05:30 AM
                          video renderingIreland2017/01/25 08:11 AM
                            You can keep a coal furnace fed all the time. (NT)anon2017/01/25 03:27 PM
                              You can keep a coal furnace fed all the time.Ireland2017/01/25 03:36 PM
                                You can keep a coal furnace fed all the time.anon2017/01/27 03:29 AM
                                  You can keep a coal furnace fed all the time.Michael S2017/01/27 07:22 AM
                                    You can keep a coal furnace fed all the time.Ireland2017/01/27 10:59 AM
                                    You can keep a coal furnace fed all the time.anon2017/01/27 03:09 PM
                                      Information and Super Materials Ireland2017/01/28 11:13 AM
                            video renderingRichardC2017/01/26 11:39 AM
                              video renderingIreland2017/01/26 12:49 PM
                                video renderingIreland2017/01/26 12:58 PM
                                video renderingRichardC2017/01/26 03:24 PM
                                  video renderingIreland2017/01/26 05:09 PM
                          video renderingGabriele Svelto2017/01/25 08:16 AM
                            video renderingIreland2017/01/25 08:33 AM
                              The challenge at Pixar Ireland2017/01/25 08:40 AM
                                Pixar story & technologyRichard Cownie2017/01/25 11:36 AM
                                  Pixar story & technologyIreland2017/01/25 11:58 AM
                          video renderingAaron Spink2017/01/25 02:49 PM
                            video renderingIreland2017/01/25 03:26 PM
                            cloud network infrastructureRichardC2017/01/26 10:47 AM
                              cloud network infrastructureAaron Spink2017/01/26 07:37 PM
                ARM-based supercomputersGabriele Svelto2017/01/24 12:40 PM
                  ARM-based supercomputersAaron Spink2017/01/24 08:00 PM
        ARM-based supercomputersRichardC2017/01/22 09:45 PM
          ARM-based supercomputersGabriele Svelto2017/01/23 01:03 AM
            ARM-based supercomputersRichardC2017/01/23 06:57 AM
      ARM-based supercomputersGabriele Svelto2017/01/23 03:23 AM
    Mont blanc project and ARM HPC in generaljuanrga2017/01/29 04:42 AM
      Juan, why do you have to be such an arrogant twat to the person who provides this forum? (NT)Annoyed2017/01/30 02:32 AM
      Still idioticDavid Kanter2017/01/30 07:49 AM
        Still idioticMr. Camel2017/01/30 08:16 PM
        Still idioticjuanrga2017/02/02 08:11 AM
      Mont blanc project and ARM HPC in generalIreland2017/01/31 04:53 PM
        Four Things to Consider Ireland2017/01/31 05:11 PM
          Four Things to Consider tarlinian2017/01/31 06:38 PM
            Four Things to Consider Ireland2017/01/31 06:58 PM
              no evidence that it goes on a shipRichardC2017/02/01 06:05 AM
                no evidence that it goes on a shipIreland2017/02/02 01:57 PM
                  no evidence that it goes on a shipRichardC2017/02/03 06:04 AM
                    no evidence that it goes on a shipIreland2017/02/03 08:02 AM
              A better place to site a supercomputerAnon2017/02/01 06:57 AM
                A better place to site a supercomputerIreland2017/02/01 06:37 PM
                  A better Ireland..Anon2017/02/01 07:52 PM
                    A better Ireland..slacker2017/02/01 10:32 PM
                    A better Ireland..Ireland2017/02/02 04:06 AM
                    He is manic (NT)anonymo2017/02/02 12:21 PM
                      or a botanon2017/02/02 02:17 PM
                        or a botanonymou52017/02/02 03:46 PM
                        or a botnone2017/02/02 10:45 PM
                          or a botanon2017/02/03 09:30 AM
                        Better bot example: amanfrommars1Doug S2017/02/03 10:44 AM
            Make allowances, the man never sleeps..Anon2017/01/31 08:22 PM
        Mont blanc project and ARM HPC in generaletudiant2017/02/02 08:39 AM
          Mont blanc project and ARM HPC in generalIreland2017/02/02 11:12 AM
            Connection between two different modelsIreland2017/02/02 11:18 AM
              Connection between two different modelsetudiant2017/02/04 02:40 PM
                Connection between two different modelsRichardC2017/02/06 08:36 AM
                  Connection between two different modelsdmcq2017/02/06 10:07 AM
                  Connection between two different modelsIreland2017/02/06 11:17 AM
                    probably not the right forum ...RichardC2017/02/06 12:31 PM
                      probably not the right forum ...Ireland2017/02/06 01:53 PM
Reply to this Topic
Name:
Email:
Topic:
Body: No Text
How do you spell green?