Sharing between servers and phones

By: David Kanter (dkanter.delete@this.realworldtech.com), January 25, 2017 7:15 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Wilco (Wilco.Dijkstra.delete@this.ntlworld.com) on January 25, 2017 3:22 am wrote:
> David Kanter (dkanter.delete@this.realworldtech.com) on January 24, 2017 7:34 pm wrote:
> > Wilco (Wilco.Dijkstra.delete@this.ntlworld.com) on January 24, 2017 3:07 pm wrote:
> > > Anon (no.delete@this.email.com) on January 24, 2017 1:54 pm wrote:
> > > > Aaron Spink (aaronspink.delete@this.notearthlink.net) on January 24, 2017 6:44 am wrote:
> > > > > vvid (no.delete@this.hans.com) on January 24, 2017 1:55 am wrote:
> > > > > > Aaron Spink (aaronspink.delete@this.notearthlink.net) on January 23, 2017 7:02 pm wrote:
> > > > > > > dmcq (dmcq.delete@this.fano.co.uk) on January 22, 2017 1:03 pm wrote:
> > > > > > > > I'm not sure what "Problem with the phone/tablet SoCs is you are going to have to run at least
> > > > > > > > twice." means. Every ARM designed core has ECC support as an option as far as I'm aware, even
> > > > > > > > the A73 which is specifically for phones rather than mission critical or server applications.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That's great, what about the TB+ of main memory?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Isn't it strange to ask of TB+ DRAM from smartphone SoC?
> > > > > > So far we have 8GB max here. Not that bad for a node.
> > > > > > Anyway CoreLink CMN-600 supports 8chn DDR4. So it should handle 1TB(?)
> > > > > >
> > > > > In the thread I'm replying to, we are talking about phone SoCs, the question about the TB+ of
> > > > > memory is related to main memory ECC for a super computer composed of phone/tablet socs.
> > > > >
> > > > > As far as X-Gene 3, that isn't a phone/tablet SoC. And it matters
> > > > > not what cores support, but what the processor/SoC supports.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Why would anyone build a TB+ single memory image supercomputer from phone SOCs, other than as
> > > > a strawman? There would be so many other things wrong with it anyway... memory addressing would
> > > > almost be the least of your problems.
> > >
> > > Nobody would use the same SoC for both of course, that's insane. The original quote was:
> > > "And the huge market for phone/tablet ARM-based SoCs with low power and integrated GPU's
> > > means that a good deal of the relevant hardware design is already off-the-shelf ..."
> >
> > Which as we know is not true. Reusing a core barely helps. It's about volume
> > of the SoC. And server SoCs have little in common with phone chips.
>
> Wrong. Who says only the core can be shared? It's also about the caches, fabric, memory
> controllers, peripherals, dvfs, software etc. Reusing so many key components means you
> can share most of the design effort. The volume of a mobile SoC is more than enough to
> pay for the additional effort for the server version due to the significant reuse.
>
> > > That's correct given mobile SoCs contain many of the components needed for a server.
> >
> > Actually it's wrong.
>
> Really? Are you claiming that CPUs, fabrics, memory controllers etc etc cannot be shared?

Sure, they *can be* shared. But they *should not* be shared. Memory controllers are different, on-chip fabrics are different, power management is different, power delivery is different. The CPU core can be the same, but that involves sacrifices (smaller than ideal TLBs, smaller caches, lower power/core, etc.). The I/Os are radically different, since no phone has an off-chip cache coherent link in it. Some phones may have PCIe, none have 10GbE or 100GbE, or Infiniband.

> > >As stated several times
> > > mobile-focussed cores like Cortex-A73, their fabric, caches
> > > and memory controllers support ECC as well as a large
> > > address space. So you can use the same off-the-shelf components and build both mobile and server >parts.
> >
> > The A73 doesn't support AMBA5 and server fabric, etc. The A72 does.
>
> So? There are AMBA 4 equivalents too.

Yeah, and they are probably uniformly worse than the newer AMBA5 stuff. Unless you think that ARM didn't improve their system architecture between AMBA4 and 5 generation IPs...

David
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TopicPosted ByDate
Cray to Develop ARM-based Isambard Supercomputer for UK Met Officegallier22017/01/20 07:48 AM
  Cray to Develop ARM-based Isambard Supercomputer for UK Met Officegallier22017/01/20 07:48 AM
    Ignore second post (NT)gallier22017/01/20 07:49 AM
  ARM-based supercomputersDavid Kanter2017/01/20 02:55 PM
    ARM-based supercomputersMaynard Handley2017/01/20 08:55 PM
      ARM-based supercomputers lolRobert David Graham2017/01/21 05:34 PM
        ARM-based supercomputers lolnone2017/01/21 06:44 PM
          ARM-based supercomputers lolMaynard Handley2017/01/21 07:36 PM
            ARM-based supercomputers lolMichael S2017/01/22 02:07 AM
            What did you learn?Innocent Bystander2017/01/22 08:26 AM
          ARM-based supercomputers lolanon2017/01/22 02:24 AM
            ARM-based supercomputers lolGabriele Svelto2017/01/23 12:53 AM
              ARM-based supercomputers lolanon2017/01/23 06:40 AM
            ARM-based supercomputers loljuanrga2017/01/29 05:01 AM
              ARM-based supercomputers lolanon2017/01/29 09:35 AM
        ARM-based supercomputers lolBrendan2017/01/21 07:36 PM
         Dumb belief? ROFL (NT)juanrga2017/01/22 02:59 AM
          Dumb belief? ROFLwumpus2017/01/22 11:31 AM
            Dumb belief? ROFLjuanrga2017/01/29 05:13 AM
        ARM-based supercomputers lolDavid Kanter2017/01/22 08:20 AM
    ARM-based supercomputersRichardC2017/01/22 07:54 AM
      ARM-based supercomputersAaron Spink2017/01/22 12:03 PM
        ARM-based supercomputersNiels Jørgen Kruse2017/01/22 12:16 PM
          ARM-based supercomputersAaron Spink2017/01/23 07:01 PM
            ARM-based supercomputersNiels Jørgen Kruse2017/01/23 10:41 PM
              ARM-based supercomputerstarlinian2017/01/24 08:58 AM
                ARM-based supercomputersMichael S2017/01/24 09:05 AM
                  ARM-based supercomputersAaron Spink2017/01/24 10:38 AM
        ARM-based supercomputersdmcq2017/01/22 01:03 PM
          A73 does not have L1 ECCDavid Kanter2017/01/22 09:50 PM
            A73 does not have L1 ECCdmcq2017/01/23 03:32 PM
              A73 does not have L1 ECCMichael S2017/01/23 03:50 PM
              A73 does not have L1 ECCdmcq2017/01/24 08:15 AM
                A73 does not have L1 ECCMichael S2017/01/24 08:47 AM
          ARM SOCs with ECC DRAMMichael S2017/01/23 03:17 AM
          ARM-based supercomputersAaron Spink2017/01/23 07:02 PM
            X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryvvid2017/01/24 01:55 AM
              X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryWilco2017/01/24 02:13 AM
                You seem to be confusing "SoC" with "CPU core" (NT)Anon2017/01/24 03:12 AM
                X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryMichael S2017/01/24 05:26 AM
                  X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memorydmcq2017/01/24 08:28 AM
                X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryAaron Spink2017/01/24 06:46 AM
                  X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryWilco2017/01/24 03:10 PM
                    X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryDavid Kanter2017/01/24 07:31 PM
                X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memorySimon Farnsworth2017/01/26 02:23 AM
              X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryAaron Spink2017/01/24 06:44 AM
                X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryAnon2017/01/24 01:54 PM
                  X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryWilco2017/01/24 03:07 PM
                    X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryDavid Kanter2017/01/24 07:34 PM
                      X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memorynone2017/01/24 10:48 PM
                        X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryMichael S2017/01/25 01:32 AM
                        X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryDavid Hess2017/01/25 09:47 PM
                          X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryMichael S2017/01/26 12:55 AM
                            Really that different?Daniel B2017/01/26 03:37 AM
                              Really that different?none2017/01/26 05:39 AM
                                Really that different?itsmydamnation2017/01/26 03:55 PM
                                  Really that different?none2017/01/26 11:14 PM
                      X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryWilco2017/01/25 03:22 AM
                        Sharing between servers and phonesDavid Kanter2017/01/25 07:15 AM
                          Sharing between servers and phonesWilco2017/01/25 04:41 PM
                            Sharing between servers and phonesDavid Kanter2017/01/25 06:10 PM
                              Sharing between servers and phonesGabriele Svelto2017/01/26 03:15 AM
                                Sharing between servers and phonesDavid Kanter2017/01/26 07:33 AM
                                  Sharing between servers and phoneswumpus2017/01/26 03:25 PM
                                    Sharing between servers and phonesDavid Kanter2017/01/27 06:46 AM
                                      Any idea why Intel doesn't ship server chips with eDRAM?Mark Roulo2017/01/27 09:02 AM
                                        Any idea why Intel doesn't ship server chips with eDRAM?Per Hesselgren2017/01/28 06:49 AM
                                          Any idea why Intel doesn't ship server chips with eDRAM?Simon Farnsworth2017/01/28 07:06 AM
                                          Any idea why Intel doesn't ship server chips with eDRAM?Michael S2017/01/29 02:43 AM
                                            off die eDRAM?wumpus2017/01/29 06:57 AM
                                              off die eDRAM?anon2017/01/29 09:46 AM
                                      Sharing between servers and phonesrwessel2017/01/27 10:36 PM
                                      Sharing between servers and phonesLinus Torvalds2017/01/28 11:49 AM
                                        Sharing between servers and phonesrwessel2017/01/29 08:56 PM
                                          Sharing between servers and phonesLinus Torvalds2017/01/30 10:01 AM
                                            Sharing between servers and phonesrwessel2017/01/31 12:29 AM
                                              Sharing between servers and phonesIreland2017/01/31 07:55 AM
                                                Please keep your posts on topicDavid Kanter2017/01/31 11:32 AM
                                                  Technology that can survive in harsh conditionsIreland2017/01/31 12:51 PM
                                                    Stay on topic, you have been warnedDavid Kanter2017/01/31 06:56 PM
                                                On topic summary and my thoughts on it. Jouni Osmala2017/01/31 01:10 PM
                                                  On topic summary and my thoughts on it. Ireland2017/01/31 01:27 PM
                                              Sharing between servers and phonesLinus Torvalds2017/01/31 01:01 PM
                                                Sharing between servers and phonesLinus Torvalds2017/01/31 01:49 PM
                                                  Sharing between servers and phonesDoug S2017/01/31 02:12 PM
                                                Sharing between servers and phonesrwessel2017/01/31 05:54 PM
                                                  Sharing between servers and phonesLinus Torvalds2017/02/01 09:17 AM
                                                    Sharing between servers and phonesrwessel2017/02/02 03:40 PM
                                                  Sharing between servers and phonesjoncmu2017/02/01 01:36 PM
                                                    Sharing between servers and phonesChristian Borntraeger2017/02/02 03:46 AM
            ARM-based supercomputersRichardC2017/01/24 05:50 AM
              ARM-based supercomputersAaron Spink2017/01/24 07:20 AM
                ARM-based supercomputersdmcq2017/01/24 08:44 AM
                  ARM-based supercomputersnone2017/01/24 09:10 AM
                  ARM-based supercomputersjuanrga2017/01/29 05:33 AM
                    ARM-based supercomputershobel2017/01/30 02:35 AM
                ARM-based supercomputersRichardC2017/01/24 09:34 AM
                  ARM-based supercomputersdmcq2017/01/24 10:10 AM
                  ARM-based supercomputersAaron Spink2017/01/24 11:01 AM
                    ARM-based supercomputersRichardC2017/01/24 04:06 PM
                      ARM-based supercomputersIreland2017/01/24 05:16 PM
                      ARM-based supercomputersAaron Spink2017/01/24 07:43 PM
                    video renderingRichardC2017/01/24 05:08 PM
                      video renderingIreland2017/01/24 05:26 PM
                      video renderingAaron Spink2017/01/24 07:54 PM
                        video renderingRichardC2017/01/25 04:26 AM
                          display bandwidthRichardC2017/01/25 05:30 AM
                          video renderingIreland2017/01/25 08:11 AM
                            You can keep a coal furnace fed all the time. (NT)anon2017/01/25 03:27 PM
                              You can keep a coal furnace fed all the time.Ireland2017/01/25 03:36 PM
                                You can keep a coal furnace fed all the time.anon2017/01/27 03:29 AM
                                  You can keep a coal furnace fed all the time.Michael S2017/01/27 07:22 AM
                                    You can keep a coal furnace fed all the time.Ireland2017/01/27 10:59 AM
                                    You can keep a coal furnace fed all the time.anon2017/01/27 03:09 PM
                                      Information and Super Materials Ireland2017/01/28 11:13 AM
                            video renderingRichardC2017/01/26 11:39 AM
                              video renderingIreland2017/01/26 12:49 PM
                                video renderingIreland2017/01/26 12:58 PM
                                video renderingRichardC2017/01/26 03:24 PM
                                  video renderingIreland2017/01/26 05:09 PM
                          video renderingGabriele Svelto2017/01/25 08:16 AM
                            video renderingIreland2017/01/25 08:33 AM
                              The challenge at Pixar Ireland2017/01/25 08:40 AM
                                Pixar story & technologyRichard Cownie2017/01/25 11:36 AM
                                  Pixar story & technologyIreland2017/01/25 11:58 AM
                          video renderingAaron Spink2017/01/25 02:49 PM
                            video renderingIreland2017/01/25 03:26 PM
                            cloud network infrastructureRichardC2017/01/26 10:47 AM
                              cloud network infrastructureAaron Spink2017/01/26 07:37 PM
                ARM-based supercomputersGabriele Svelto2017/01/24 12:40 PM
                  ARM-based supercomputersAaron Spink2017/01/24 08:00 PM
        ARM-based supercomputersRichardC2017/01/22 09:45 PM
          ARM-based supercomputersGabriele Svelto2017/01/23 01:03 AM
            ARM-based supercomputersRichardC2017/01/23 06:57 AM
      ARM-based supercomputersGabriele Svelto2017/01/23 03:23 AM
    Mont blanc project and ARM HPC in generaljuanrga2017/01/29 04:42 AM
      Juan, why do you have to be such an arrogant twat to the person who provides this forum? (NT)Annoyed2017/01/30 02:32 AM
      Still idioticDavid Kanter2017/01/30 07:49 AM
        Still idioticMr. Camel2017/01/30 08:16 PM
        Still idioticjuanrga2017/02/02 08:11 AM
      Mont blanc project and ARM HPC in generalIreland2017/01/31 04:53 PM
        Four Things to Consider Ireland2017/01/31 05:11 PM
          Four Things to Consider tarlinian2017/01/31 06:38 PM
            Four Things to Consider Ireland2017/01/31 06:58 PM
              no evidence that it goes on a shipRichardC2017/02/01 06:05 AM
                no evidence that it goes on a shipIreland2017/02/02 01:57 PM
                  no evidence that it goes on a shipRichardC2017/02/03 06:04 AM
                    no evidence that it goes on a shipIreland2017/02/03 08:02 AM
              A better place to site a supercomputerAnon2017/02/01 06:57 AM
                A better place to site a supercomputerIreland2017/02/01 06:37 PM
                  A better Ireland..Anon2017/02/01 07:52 PM
                    A better Ireland..slacker2017/02/01 10:32 PM
                    A better Ireland..Ireland2017/02/02 04:06 AM
                    He is manic (NT)anonymo2017/02/02 12:21 PM
                      or a botanon2017/02/02 02:17 PM
                        or a botanonymou52017/02/02 03:46 PM
                        or a botnone2017/02/02 10:45 PM
                          or a botanon2017/02/03 09:30 AM
                        Better bot example: amanfrommars1Doug S2017/02/03 10:44 AM
            Make allowances, the man never sleeps..Anon2017/01/31 08:22 PM
        Mont blanc project and ARM HPC in generaletudiant2017/02/02 08:39 AM
          Mont blanc project and ARM HPC in generalIreland2017/02/02 11:12 AM
            Connection between two different modelsIreland2017/02/02 11:18 AM
              Connection between two different modelsetudiant2017/02/04 02:40 PM
                Connection between two different modelsRichardC2017/02/06 08:36 AM
                  Connection between two different modelsdmcq2017/02/06 10:07 AM
                  Connection between two different modelsIreland2017/02/06 11:17 AM
                    probably not the right forum ...RichardC2017/02/06 12:31 PM
                      probably not the right forum ...Ireland2017/02/06 01:53 PM
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