Really that different?

By: itsmydamnation (no.delete@this.way.com), January 26, 2017 3:55 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
none (none.delete@this.none.com) on January 26, 2017 5:39 am wrote:
> Daniel B (fejenagy.delete@this.gmail.com) on January 26, 2017 3:37 am wrote:
> > Michael S (already5chosen.delete@this.yahoo.com) on January 26, 2017 12:55 am wrote:
> > > David Hess (davidwhess.delete@this.gmail.com) on January 25, 2017 9:47 pm wrote:
> > > > none (none.delete@this.none.com) on January 24, 2017 10:48 pm wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Isn't Intel now using different masks, interconnects and other elements (L2 caches and AVX-512
> > > > > for instance) for their server chips? Does this mean reusing most of their core
> > > > > from laptops up to servers doesn't help them anymore? So does this mean the old story
> > > > > that Intel is so strong because their server chips are basically the same as their PC chip
> > > > > is now obsolete?
> > > >
> > > > Intel already *has* a large server market to support development of very expensive server oriented
> > > > CPUs but the core design and validation is still shared with their desktop processors which are
> > > > themselves identical to their low end Xeon processors except for market segmentation.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Things used to be like that.
> > > But, according to all reports, Skylake Xeons (not E3s) that are planned for release in Q2 or Q3
> > > *do not* have the same core design as desktop processors. Not even the same instruction set.
> > >
> >
> > My reading of what Intel engineers said about this matter (they were not cleared to share
> > anything specific) was that Skylake server parts will indeed have different cores, but the
> > differences are not going be fundamental to the x86 microarchitecture or L1/L2 cache for that
> > matter. Are those reports saying otherwise? I haven't been paying attention. Do you have a
> > link by chance? The engineers sort of confirmed it's macro blocks only at this stage.
> >
> > My speculation has always been that the biggest thing must be about AVX-512 vs. no AVX.
> > I think that's now confirmed more or less. Another potential factor is that Purley will
> > see extreme TDP SKUs (205W) which made me think if a different floorplan was needed for
> > managing thermal stress. Potentially no and those are specifically liquid-cooled parts?
>
> That's my understanding too: L2 is increased to 1MB and AVX-512 is in. I have not heard
> of anything beyond that as far as the core is concerned. They might have resized some
> other structures (L2 TLB, or branch predictors), but that'd not be something I consider
> fundamental.
>
> OTOH the impact on core validation is likely not trivial, but obviously not as heavy as
> what would be needed for a really new core.
>
> > Anyway, this branching is still a major thing.
>
> Agreed.

Aren't they also going to go to a more KNL style fabric for L3 instead of single/dual ring buses? I would expect the consumer to keep the ring bus as over recent generations they have actually decreased its performance and latency by moving its clocking domain from the cores to the uncore i assume save power.
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  Cray to Develop ARM-based Isambard Supercomputer for UK Met Officegallier22017/01/20 07:48 AM
    Ignore second post (NT)gallier22017/01/20 07:49 AM
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          ARM-based supercomputers lolanon2017/01/22 02:24 AM
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              ARM-based supercomputers lolanon2017/01/23 06:40 AM
            ARM-based supercomputers loljuanrga2017/01/29 05:01 AM
              ARM-based supercomputers lolanon2017/01/29 09:35 AM
        ARM-based supercomputers lolBrendan2017/01/21 07:36 PM
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          Dumb belief? ROFLwumpus2017/01/22 11:31 AM
            Dumb belief? ROFLjuanrga2017/01/29 05:13 AM
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              X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryWilco2017/01/24 02:13 AM
                You seem to be confusing "SoC" with "CPU core" (NT)Anon2017/01/24 03:12 AM
                X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryMichael S2017/01/24 05:26 AM
                  X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memorydmcq2017/01/24 08:28 AM
                X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryAaron Spink2017/01/24 06:46 AM
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                    X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryDavid Kanter2017/01/24 07:31 PM
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                X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryAnon2017/01/24 01:54 PM
                  X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryWilco2017/01/24 03:07 PM
                    X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryDavid Kanter2017/01/24 07:34 PM
                      X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memorynone2017/01/24 10:48 PM
                        X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryMichael S2017/01/25 01:32 AM
                        X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryDavid Hess2017/01/25 09:47 PM
                          X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryMichael S2017/01/26 12:55 AM
                            Really that different?Daniel B2017/01/26 03:37 AM
                              Really that different?none2017/01/26 05:39 AM
                                Really that different?itsmydamnation2017/01/26 03:55 PM
                                  Really that different?none2017/01/26 11:14 PM
                      X-Gene 3 supports 1TB of memoryWilco2017/01/25 03:22 AM
                        Sharing between servers and phonesDavid Kanter2017/01/25 07:15 AM
                          Sharing between servers and phonesWilco2017/01/25 04:41 PM
                            Sharing between servers and phonesDavid Kanter2017/01/25 06:10 PM
                              Sharing between servers and phonesGabriele Svelto2017/01/26 03:15 AM
                                Sharing between servers and phonesDavid Kanter2017/01/26 07:33 AM
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                                      Any idea why Intel doesn't ship server chips with eDRAM?Mark Roulo2017/01/27 09:02 AM
                                        Any idea why Intel doesn't ship server chips with eDRAM?Per Hesselgren2017/01/28 06:49 AM
                                          Any idea why Intel doesn't ship server chips with eDRAM?Simon Farnsworth2017/01/28 07:06 AM
                                          Any idea why Intel doesn't ship server chips with eDRAM?Michael S2017/01/29 02:43 AM
                                            off die eDRAM?wumpus2017/01/29 06:57 AM
                                              off die eDRAM?anon2017/01/29 09:46 AM
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                                                  On topic summary and my thoughts on it. Ireland2017/01/31 01:27 PM
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                                                Sharing between servers and phonesLinus Torvalds2017/01/31 01:49 PM
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                              video renderingIreland2017/01/26 12:49 PM
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                                video renderingRichardC2017/01/26 03:24 PM
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                  ARM-based supercomputersAaron Spink2017/01/24 08:00 PM
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      Still idioticDavid Kanter2017/01/30 07:49 AM
        Still idioticMr. Camel2017/01/30 08:16 PM
        Still idioticjuanrga2017/02/02 08:11 AM
      Mont blanc project and ARM HPC in generalIreland2017/01/31 04:53 PM
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            Four Things to Consider Ireland2017/01/31 06:58 PM
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                no evidence that it goes on a shipIreland2017/02/02 01:57 PM
                  no evidence that it goes on a shipRichardC2017/02/03 06:04 AM
                    no evidence that it goes on a shipIreland2017/02/03 08:02 AM
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                A better place to site a supercomputerIreland2017/02/01 06:37 PM
                  A better Ireland..Anon2017/02/01 07:52 PM
                    A better Ireland..slacker2017/02/01 10:32 PM
                    A better Ireland..Ireland2017/02/02 04:06 AM
                    He is manic (NT)anonymo2017/02/02 12:21 PM
                      or a botanon2017/02/02 02:17 PM
                        or a botanonymou52017/02/02 03:46 PM
                        or a botnone2017/02/02 10:45 PM
                          or a botanon2017/02/03 09:30 AM
                        Better bot example: amanfrommars1Doug S2017/02/03 10:44 AM
            Make allowances, the man never sleeps..Anon2017/01/31 08:22 PM
        Mont blanc project and ARM HPC in generaletudiant2017/02/02 08:39 AM
          Mont blanc project and ARM HPC in generalIreland2017/02/02 11:12 AM
            Connection between two different modelsIreland2017/02/02 11:18 AM
              Connection between two different modelsetudiant2017/02/04 02:40 PM
                Connection between two different modelsRichardC2017/02/06 08:36 AM
                  Connection between two different modelsdmcq2017/02/06 10:07 AM
                  Connection between two different modelsIreland2017/02/06 11:17 AM
                    probably not the right forum ...RichardC2017/02/06 12:31 PM
                      probably not the right forum ...Ireland2017/02/06 01:53 PM
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