1800x system available

By: muziqaz (m.delete@this.gmail.com), March 17, 2017 3:53 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Per Hesselgren (perhesselgren.delete@this.yahoo.se) on March 16, 2017 3:14 am wrote:
> muziqaz (m.delete@this.gmail.com) on March 13, 2017 9:22 am wrote:
> > Travis (travis.downs.delete@this.gmail.com) on March 5, 2017 7:23 pm wrote:
> > > David Kanter (dkanter.delete@this.realworldtech.com) on March 5, 2017 5:31 pm wrote:
> > > > Travis (travis.downs.delete@this.gmail.com) on March 5, 2017 11:55 am wrote:
> > > > > anon (spam.delete.delete@this.this.spam.com) on March 4, 2017 4:16 pm wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Fusing cmp + branch like they did on BD might also be possible.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah. I tried to avoid even bringing that in since it is already confusing enough with all the
> > > > > different ways of measuring things, and invariably someone will try to add macro-fused branch stuff
> > > > > to the calculation. So for now I'm just assuming no branch fusion is occurring, or, equivalently,
> > > > > that it is occurring and we just count the pair as one instruction and one (fused) uop.
> > > > >
> > > > > This reduces the complexity - but of course if Ryzen doesn't do that fusion it has to be noted separately
> > > > > too, since it would be an advantage for Intel, separate from the "more generic" width discussion.
> > > > >
> > > > > > Either way decode is probably slightly weaker than SKL in terms of the raw number of instructions.
> > > > > > Bandwidth to the decode queue might be higher though, so possible benefits on more complex instructions.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If the uop cache actually uses mops, which should be as powerful as fused
> > > > > > uops, if not more, then there's at least parity with SKL here.
> > > > > > 4 mops/cycle -> 6 uops/cycle seems not enough to explain
> > > > > > the performance with SMT, so I'm leaning towards 6 mops.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't believe 6 mops / fused uops rename on the integer side is happening. So 6 mops dispatch
> > > > > > towards int seems unlikely. 4 mops towards int, with combined load + alu mops splitting into
> > > > > > 2 uops to sustain 6 uop/cycle schedule & execute seems much more balanced and realistic. Ideally
> > > > > > 4 mops to fp as well, although limited by 6 mops total dispatch. 256bit ops get split into 2
> > > > > > uops after rename ideally. Same with FMA. Really not sure about these two though.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No idea about how retire slots map to uops/mops/instructions either.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So my take on it is that int rename is about equivalent to 4 fused uops, as is fp rename and
> > > > > > retire. Combine with the higher latencies (instructions and mov to fp) and lower bandwidth
> > > > > > (cache/load/store) the IPC between HSW and SKL in ST makes sense. The rename bottleneck being
> > > > > > alleviated as soon as the fp side gets involved would explain why SMT works so well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sure, some things could be changed to make it beat SKL but that's what Zen2 is for. All trade
> > > > > > offs that cost performance seem to be in favour of lower power consumption. Given the efficiency
> > > > > > we've seen with a slight process disadvantage you can't really argue with that.
> > > > > > It really seems like a reverse Bulldozer. Instead of starting with a good concept
> > > > > > and then making all the wrong decision so nothing works well together they started
> > > > > > with a good concept and everything actually fits together well.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yeah...
> > > > >
> > > > > Why aren't there any review sites that do these kind of microbenchmarks/micro-architectural investigation?
> > > > > It's probably a couple hours to throw together the asm, and run it while looking at the timing
> > > > > and performance counters. I'd do it in a heartbeat if I had access to a Ryzen box.
> > > > >
> > > > > No, instead you have 500 sites just pumping out the same basic suite of benchmarks, filled with
> > > > > wild speculation about why the numbers are as they are. If they sorted out the microarctecture
> > > > > details first, they could be way more informed when running the primary benchmarks...
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess Agner is the guy who has done it in the past (publicly at least),
> > > > > but it could be months (if ever) before we see a new guide.
> > > >
> > > > I may have a system soon, and if you have stuff written, I'd be happy to run it.
> > > >
> > > > David
> > >
> > > I will put something together. Do you prefer a Windows or Linux binary?
> > > Or I can just provide a small project and you can compile it.
> >
> > I have Ryzen sitting in BIOS right now, its just waiting for me to get windows in.
> > I could delay windows installation and drop in some sort of Linux distro today.
> > Though I have to admit I'm quite rusty with linux, been a long time. So yeah
> > if interested, drop me a line on muziqazatgmaildotcom. Will be happy to help
>
> If you have a Ryzen I would recommend you to test this:
> http://home.vianetworks.nl/users/mhx/mm.c
> This is a single thread matrix multiplication and the alternatives are interesting.
> -n is the normal. I have never got the same speed up for AMD and Intel with for example -r.
> DN=500 is perhaps too small and 800 could be relevant.
> If you prefer 16 threads test some of the Open MP here:
> http://people.sc.fsu.edu/~jburkardt/c_src/openmp/openmp.html
> Floating point examples will give you some speed up but most of the integer tests are too small.

Hi, I will look into that probably this weekend, as my Ryzen is still sitting with Linux. But as I said if you guys want me to run something very specific don't hesitate to ask ;)
< Previous Post in ThreadNext Post in Thread >
TopicPosted ByDate
Is Ryzen 6-wide?Travis2017/03/03 06:27 PM
  Is Ryzen 6-wide?Maynard Handley2017/03/03 06:50 PM
  AMD describes it as 6 wideVertexMaster2017/03/03 11:27 PM
    AMD describes it as 6 wideExophase2017/03/04 12:21 PM
      AMD describes it as 6 wideanon2017/03/04 12:54 PM
        AMD describes it as 6 wideTravis2017/03/04 01:12 PM
          AMD describes it as 6 wideTravis2017/03/04 02:05 PM
            AMD describes it as 6 wideExophase2017/03/04 05:16 PM
              AMD describes it as 6 wideMichael S2017/03/05 10:27 AM
              AMD describes it as 6 wideTravis2017/03/05 12:45 PM
                AMD Ryzen inst lat and tputPer Hesselgren2017/03/07 12:00 AM
                  AMD Ryzen inst lat and tputTravis2017/03/07 01:50 PM
                    AMD Ryzen inst lat and tputGabriele Svelto2017/03/08 04:37 AM
                      AMD Ryzen inst lat and tputTravis2017/03/08 12:03 PM
                  AMD Ryzen inst lat and tputTravis2017/03/07 02:01 PM
                    Sorry, failed to properly close code tag :( (NT)Travis2017/03/07 02:02 PM
                    AMD Ryzen inst lat and tputPer Hesselgren2017/03/07 02:48 PM
                      AMD Ryzen inst lat and tputTravis2017/03/07 03:16 PM
                      AMD Ryzen inst lat and tputPer Hesselgren2017/03/07 03:19 PM
                        AMD Ryzen inst lat and tputPer Hesselgren2017/03/18 07:50 AM
                          AMD Ryzen inst lat and tputPer Hesselgren2017/03/18 08:05 AM
                            AMD Ryzen inst lat and tput-7zipPer Hesselgren2017/03/25 03:48 AM
                  FMA tput looks like a mistakeMichael S2017/03/12 03:24 AM
                    FMA tput looks like a mistakeGian-Carlo Pascutto2017/03/14 01:27 AM
                      FMA tput looks like a mistakeMichael S2017/03/14 03:39 AM
                        FMA tput looks like a mistakeGian-Carlo Pascutto2017/03/14 07:36 AM
                          FMA tput looks like a mistakeMichael S2017/03/14 08:45 AM
                      FMA tput looks like a mistakeEmil Briggs2017/03/14 04:24 PM
                        FMA tput looks like a mistakeGian-Carlo Pascutto2017/03/15 01:32 AM
        AMD describes it as 6 wideBrett2017/03/04 01:39 PM
      AMD describes it as 6 wideTravis2017/03/04 01:06 PM
        FP & Int pipelines, AVX-256VertexMaster2017/03/04 02:09 PM
          FP & Int pipelines, AVX-256Travis2017/03/04 03:26 PM
          No Ryzen BKDG yetg c2017/03/19 07:43 AM
            No Ryzen BKDG yetGroo2017/03/20 02:02 PM
              No Ryzen BKDG & revision guide yetBrendan2017/03/22 12:37 AM
                No Ryzen BKDG & revision guide yetmuziqaz2017/03/22 03:26 AM
                No Ryzen BKDG & revision guide yetGroo2017/03/22 06:54 AM
                  No Ryzen BKDG & revision guide yetAdrian2017/03/22 07:54 AM
                  No Ryzen BKDG & revision guide yetblue2017/03/22 07:58 AM
                    FMA3 bug possibly connected to power managementhobold2017/03/22 09:14 AM
                      FMA3 bug possibly connected to power managementMatthias Waldhauer2017/03/28 07:20 AM
                        FMA3 bug only in WindowsPer Hesselgren2017/04/05 06:29 AM
                    No Ryzen BKDG & revision guide yetGroo2017/03/23 06:50 AM
                  No Ryzen BKDG & revision guide yetBrendan2017/03/23 11:31 PM
                    No Ryzen BKDG & revision guide yetMatthias Waldhauer2017/03/24 06:08 PM
        AMD describes it as 6 wideDavid Kanter2017/03/04 04:19 PM
          AMD describes it as 6 wide (how to test this?)Domaldel2017/03/22 09:58 AM
            AMD describes it as 6 wide (how to test this?)Travis2017/03/22 03:17 PM
              AMD describes it as 6 wide (how to test this?)Domaldel2017/03/23 12:49 AM
        AMD describes it as 6 wideanon2017/03/04 05:16 PM
          AMD describes it as 6 wideTravis2017/03/05 12:55 PM
            AMD describes it as 6 wideDavid Kanter2017/03/05 06:31 PM
              AMD describes it as 6 wideTravis2017/03/05 07:23 PM
                AMD describes it as 6 wideDavid Kanter2017/03/05 10:00 PM
                  AMD describes it as 6 wideTravis2017/03/06 11:15 AM
                    AMD describes it as 6 wideRobert David Graham2017/03/06 11:53 AM
                      AMD describes it as 6 wideTravis2017/03/06 04:09 PM
                    AMD describes it as 6 wideTIm McCaffrey2017/03/06 02:56 PM
                  AMD describes it as 6 wideDomaldel2017/03/08 04:36 PM
                1800x system availablemuziqaz2017/03/13 09:22 AM
                  1800x system availablePer Hesselgren2017/03/16 03:14 AM
                    1800x system availablemuziqaz2017/03/17 03:53 AM
                      1800x system availableAdrian2017/03/17 07:25 AM
                        1800x system availableAdrian2017/03/17 08:00 AM
                          1800x system availablemuziqaz2017/03/17 11:48 AM
                          1800x system availablemuziqaz2017/03/17 01:42 PM
                            1800x system availableAdrian2017/03/17 02:42 PM
                              1800x system availablemuziqaz2017/03/17 03:07 PM
                                1800x system availableAdrian2017/03/17 03:18 PM
                            1800x system availableAdrian2017/03/17 03:07 PM
                            1800x system availableDomaldel2017/03/18 06:40 AM
                              1800x system availablemuziqaz2017/03/18 06:54 AM
                                1800x system availablemuziqaz2017/03/18 02:28 PM
                                  1800x system availablePer Hesselgren2017/03/21 12:30 AM
                                    1800x system availablePer Hesselgren2017/03/21 02:58 AM
                                    1800x system availableGian-Carlo Pascutto2017/03/21 12:25 PM
                                      1800x system availableMichael_S2017/03/21 02:24 PM
                                        1800x system availableGian-Carlo Pascutto2017/03/21 02:56 PM
                                          1800x system availableMichael S2017/03/21 03:36 PM
                                            done (NT)Michael S2017/03/22 03:59 AM
                                      1800x system availableanonymou52017/03/21 03:27 PM
                                        1800x system availableWilco2017/03/22 06:17 PM
                                          1800x system availableDomaldel2017/03/23 12:52 AM
                                          1800x system availableanonymou52017/03/23 12:24 PM
                                            1800x system availableKlimax2017/04/03 01:35 AM
                                    1800x system availablemuziqaz2017/03/22 03:25 AM
                                      1800x system availablemuziqaz2017/03/24 03:24 AM
                              1800x system availableAdrian2017/03/18 08:36 AM
                    1800x system availablePer Hesselgren2017/03/17 08:49 AM
                      1800x system available-16TPer Hesselgren2017/03/17 01:10 PM
                      1800x system availableMichael S2017/03/18 10:21 AM
                        1800x system availablePer Hesselgren2017/03/19 03:06 AM
                          better test desired. This one is not pushing FPU to the limitsMichael S2017/03/19 04:28 AM
                            better test desired. This one is not pushing FPU to the limitsPer Hesselgren2017/03/19 08:49 AM
                              better test desired. This one is not pushing FPU to the limitsPer Hesselgren2017/03/19 10:47 AM
                                better test desired. This one is not pushing FPU to the limitsMichael S2017/03/19 11:45 AM
                                  better test desired. This one is not pushing FPU to the limitsMichael S2017/03/19 11:47 AM
        AMD describes it as 6 widePoindexter2017/03/05 07:55 PM
          AMD describes it as 6 wideTravis2017/03/05 08:05 PM
            AMD describes it as 6 wideDavid Kanter2017/03/05 10:03 PM
              AMD describes it as 6 wideTravis2017/03/06 11:19 AM
                AMD describes it as 6 widePoindexter2017/03/07 08:54 AM
                  AMD describes it as 6 wideTravis2017/03/07 01:54 PM
                  AMD describes it as 6 wideanon2017/03/08 04:19 AM
                    AMD describes it as 6 wideTravis2017/03/08 12:35 PM
                      AMD describes it as 6 wideanon2017/03/08 02:48 PM
                        AMD describes it as 6 wideTravis2017/03/09 12:02 PM
                          AMD describes it as 6 wideanon2017/03/09 05:44 PM
                            AMD describes it as 6 wideanon2017/03/12 08:28 AM
                            AMD describes it as 6 wideTravis2017/06/20 04:48 PM
                              AMD describes it as 6 wideAdrian2017/06/21 07:48 AM
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