By: Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org), August 17, 2018 11:29 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Alberto (git.delete@this.git.it) on August 17, 2018 9:13 am wrote:
> Andrei Frumusanu (andrei.delete@this.anandtech.com) on August 17, 2018 7:30 am wrote:
> > Alberto (git.delete@this.git.it) on August 17, 2018 1:52 am wrote:
> > > Adrian (a.delete@this.acm.org) on August 16, 2018 11:56 pm wrote:
> > > > AM (myname4rwt.delete@this.jee-male.com) on August 16, 2018 9:32 am wrote:
> > > > > https://www.arm.com/company/news/2018/08/accelerating-mobile-and-laptop-performance
> > > > >
> > > ARM always was misleading.
> > > If you look at power draw of many very recent phone SOCs under load,
> > > the power consumption go in the 11/15w range toasting your phone.
> > >
> >
> > This is complete garbage talk. All recent Arm CPU based SoCs are 1.5-2.5W
> >
> > https://images.anandtech.com/doci/12520/speceff1.png
>
> This is absolutely wrong, the average figure under load is 5-7 W in phones and 9-12W in tablets. Yes
> there is the screen to consider but under a cpu load test this is nearly irrelevant.
>
> You can find tons of power tests on Notebookcheck site, for boh phones and tablets
>
Alberto, rather than getting so upset, ask yourself some realistic questions:
"Why has ARM never announced something like this before?
And why did they choose to now announce something like this?"
As usual Americans, especially Wintel users, think the world revolves around them, and that this announcement is relevant to them. This has NOTHING TO DO with Wintel. If MS wants to keep pushing Windows on ARM, ARM won't stop them, but they don't care. This is about enabling computing for everyone who is NOT on Wintel; it's about enabling ruggedized cheap (really cheap) laptops for India, and rural China, and Africa.
The comparison to Intel performance is to allow the Chinese vendors (and anyone else who wants to plan non-ISA-dependent boxes for the 2019..2021 timeframe) to calibrate their expectations and plan accordingly.
Do you sell a NAS? A Microtik style box? An Asterix box? Maybe it's time to reconsider either using ARM64 (start experimenting with the SW) or thinking what you could do if you had much more CPU.
As for why they are doing this, that's as obvious as why they are announcing it. Apple has shown what is possible if you're willing to pay a slightly higher area and energy cost. ARM has always concentrated on absolutely minimalist area and energy requirements, and that served them well. But there is clearly a huge pool of potential customers (ie all those flagship phone vendors) who would be quite willing to pay a lot more for a core that was a lot closer to Apple. So time to augment the business plan. And once you have a core that kicks ass, why limit yourself to selling it only in phones?
None of this has to do with who "REALLY" has lower power at a particular performance target, Intel or ARM. It has to do with informing people that ARM will be targeting a new space, as opposed to their current target spaces. THAT is what matters, everything else is decoration.
You're like a guy reading that Apple has announced it will make cars, and your comment is that they used the wrong font in the ad; totally missing the significance of the announcement.
> Andrei Frumusanu (andrei.delete@this.anandtech.com) on August 17, 2018 7:30 am wrote:
> > Alberto (git.delete@this.git.it) on August 17, 2018 1:52 am wrote:
> > > Adrian (a.delete@this.acm.org) on August 16, 2018 11:56 pm wrote:
> > > > AM (myname4rwt.delete@this.jee-male.com) on August 16, 2018 9:32 am wrote:
> > > > > https://www.arm.com/company/news/2018/08/accelerating-mobile-and-laptop-performance
> > > > >
> > > ARM always was misleading.
> > > If you look at power draw of many very recent phone SOCs under load,
> > > the power consumption go in the 11/15w range toasting your phone.
> > >
> >
> > This is complete garbage talk. All recent Arm CPU based SoCs are 1.5-2.5W
> >
> > https://images.anandtech.com/doci/12520/speceff1.png
>
> This is absolutely wrong, the average figure under load is 5-7 W in phones and 9-12W in tablets. Yes
> there is the screen to consider but under a cpu load test this is nearly irrelevant.
>
> You can find tons of power tests on Notebookcheck site, for boh phones and tablets
>
Alberto, rather than getting so upset, ask yourself some realistic questions:
"Why has ARM never announced something like this before?
And why did they choose to now announce something like this?"
As usual Americans, especially Wintel users, think the world revolves around them, and that this announcement is relevant to them. This has NOTHING TO DO with Wintel. If MS wants to keep pushing Windows on ARM, ARM won't stop them, but they don't care. This is about enabling computing for everyone who is NOT on Wintel; it's about enabling ruggedized cheap (really cheap) laptops for India, and rural China, and Africa.
The comparison to Intel performance is to allow the Chinese vendors (and anyone else who wants to plan non-ISA-dependent boxes for the 2019..2021 timeframe) to calibrate their expectations and plan accordingly.
Do you sell a NAS? A Microtik style box? An Asterix box? Maybe it's time to reconsider either using ARM64 (start experimenting with the SW) or thinking what you could do if you had much more CPU.
As for why they are doing this, that's as obvious as why they are announcing it. Apple has shown what is possible if you're willing to pay a slightly higher area and energy cost. ARM has always concentrated on absolutely minimalist area and energy requirements, and that served them well. But there is clearly a huge pool of potential customers (ie all those flagship phone vendors) who would be quite willing to pay a lot more for a core that was a lot closer to Apple. So time to augment the business plan. And once you have a core that kicks ass, why limit yourself to selling it only in phones?
None of this has to do with who "REALLY" has lower power at a particular performance target, Intel or ARM. It has to do with informing people that ARM will be targeting a new space, as opposed to their current target spaces. THAT is what matters, everything else is decoration.
You're like a guy reading that Apple has announced it will make cars, and your comment is that they used the wrong font in the ad; totally missing the significance of the announcement.
Topic | Posted By | Date |
---|---|---|
ARM turns to a god and a hero | AM | 2018/08/16 08:32 AM |
ARM turns to a god and a hero | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/16 08:41 AM |
ARM turns to a god and a hero | Doug S | 2018/08/16 10:11 AM |
ARM turns to a god and a hero | Geoff Langdale | 2018/08/16 10:59 PM |
ARM turns to a god and a hero | dmcq | 2018/08/17 04:12 AM |
ARM is somewhat misleading | Adrian | 2018/08/16 10:56 PM |
It's marketing material | Gabriele Svelto | 2018/08/17 12:00 AM |
It's marketing material | Michael S | 2018/08/17 02:13 AM |
It's marketing material | dmcq | 2018/08/17 04:23 AM |
It's marketing material | Andrei Frumusanu | 2018/08/17 06:25 AM |
It's marketing material | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/17 10:20 AM |
It's marketing material | Groo | 2018/08/17 12:44 PM |
It's marketing material | Doug S | 2018/08/17 01:14 PM |
promises and deliveries | AM | 2018/08/17 01:32 PM |
promises and deliveries | Passing Through | 2018/08/17 02:02 PM |
Just by way of clarification | Passing Through | 2018/08/17 02:15 PM |
Just by way of clarification | AM | 2018/08/18 11:49 AM |
Just by way of clarification | Passing Through | 2018/08/18 12:34 PM |
This ain't the nineties any longer | Passing Through | 2018/08/18 12:54 PM |
This ain't the nineties any longer | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/18 01:50 PM |
This ain't the nineties any longer | Passing Through | 2018/08/18 02:57 PM |
This ain't the nineties any longer | Passing Through | 2018/09/06 01:42 PM |
This ain't the nineties any longer | Maynard Handley | 2018/09/07 03:10 PM |
This ain't the nineties any longer | Passing Through | 2018/09/07 03:48 PM |
This ain't the nineties any longer | Maynard Handley | 2018/09/07 04:22 PM |
Just by way of clarification | Wilco | 2018/08/18 12:26 PM |
Just by way of clarification | Passing Through | 2018/08/18 12:39 PM |
Just by way of clarification | none | 2018/08/18 09:52 PM |
Just by way of clarification | dmcq | 2018/08/19 07:32 AM |
Just by way of clarification | none | 2018/08/19 07:54 AM |
Just by way of clarification | dmcq | 2018/08/19 10:24 AM |
Just by way of clarification | none | 2018/08/19 10:52 AM |
Just by way of clarification | Gabriele Svelto | 2018/08/19 05:41 AM |
Just by way of clarification | Passing Through | 2018/08/19 08:25 AM |
Whiteboards at Gatwick airport anyone? | Passing Through | 2018/08/20 03:24 AM |
It's marketing material | Michael S | 2018/08/18 10:12 AM |
It's marketing material | Brett | 2018/08/18 04:22 PM |
It's marketing material | Brett | 2018/08/18 04:33 PM |
It's marketing material | Adrian | 2018/08/19 12:21 AM |
A76 | AM | 2018/08/17 01:45 PM |
A76 | Michael S | 2018/08/18 10:20 AM |
A76 | AM | 2018/08/18 11:39 AM |
A76 | Michael S | 2018/08/18 11:49 AM |
A76 | AM | 2018/08/18 12:06 PM |
A76 | Doug S | 2018/08/18 12:43 PM |
A76 | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/18 01:42 PM |
A76 | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/18 03:22 PM |
Why write zeros when one can use metadata? | Paul A. Clayton | 2018/08/18 05:19 PM |
Why write zeros when one can use metadata? | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/19 10:12 AM |
Dictionary compress might apply to memcopy | Paul A. Clayton | 2018/08/19 12:45 PM |
Instructions for zeroing | Konrad Schwarz | 2018/08/30 05:37 AM |
Instructions for zeroing | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/30 07:41 AM |
Instructions for zeroing | Adrian | 2018/08/30 10:37 AM |
dcbz -> dcbzl (was: Instructions for zeroing) | hobold | 2018/08/31 12:50 AM |
dcbz -> dcbzl (was: Instructions for zeroing) | dmcq | 2018/09/01 04:28 AM |
A76 | Travis | 2018/08/19 10:36 AM |
A76 | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/19 11:22 AM |
A76 | Travis | 2018/08/19 01:07 PM |
A76 | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/19 05:24 PM |
Remote atomics | matthew | 2018/08/19 11:51 AM |
Remote atomics | Michael S | 2018/08/19 12:58 PM |
Remote atomics | matthew | 2018/08/19 01:32 PM |
Remote atomics | Michael S | 2018/08/19 01:36 PM |
Remote atomics | matthew | 2018/08/19 01:48 PM |
Remote atomics | Michael S | 2018/08/19 02:16 PM |
Remote atomics | Ricardo B | 2018/08/20 09:05 AM |
Remote atomics | dmcq | 2018/08/19 01:33 PM |
Remote atomics | Travis | 2018/08/19 01:32 PM |
Remote atomics | Michael S | 2018/08/19 01:46 PM |
Remote atomics | Travis | 2018/08/19 04:35 PM |
Remote atomics | Michael S | 2018/08/20 02:29 AM |
Remote atomics | matthew | 2018/08/19 06:58 PM |
Remote atomics | anon | 2018/08/19 11:59 PM |
Remote atomics | Travis | 2018/08/20 09:26 AM |
Remote atomics | Travis | 2018/08/20 08:57 AM |
Remote atomics | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/20 03:29 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Paul A. Clayton | 2018/08/21 08:09 AM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/21 01:34 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/21 02:31 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Gabriele Svelto | 2018/08/21 02:54 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/21 03:26 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Travis | 2018/08/21 03:21 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/21 03:39 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Travis | 2018/08/21 03:59 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/21 04:13 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | anon | 2018/08/21 03:27 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/21 05:02 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Etienne | 2018/08/22 01:28 AM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Gabriele Svelto | 2018/08/22 02:07 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Travis | 2018/08/22 03:00 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | anon | 2018/08/22 05:52 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Travis | 2018/08/21 03:37 PM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Paul A. Clayton | 2018/08/23 04:42 AM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/23 11:46 AM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Travis | 2018/08/23 12:29 PM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Travis | 2018/08/23 12:33 PM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Jeff S. | 2018/08/24 06:57 AM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Travis | 2018/08/24 07:47 AM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/23 01:30 PM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Travis | 2018/08/23 02:11 PM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/24 12:00 PM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Gabriele Svelto | 2018/08/24 12:25 PM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/24 12:33 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Travis | 2018/08/21 02:54 PM |
rseq: holy grail rwlock? | Travis | 2018/08/21 02:18 PM |
rseq: holy grail rwlock? | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/21 02:59 PM |
rseq: holy grail rwlock? | Travis | 2018/08/21 03:27 PM |
rseq: holy grail rwlock? | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/21 04:10 PM |
rseq: holy grail rwlock? | Travis | 2018/08/21 05:21 PM |
ARM design houses | Michael S | 2018/08/21 04:07 AM |
ARM design houses | Wilco | 2018/08/22 11:38 AM |
ARM design houses | Michael S | 2018/08/22 01:21 PM |
ARM design houses | Wilco | 2018/08/22 02:23 PM |
ARM design houses | Michael S | 2018/08/29 12:58 AM |
Qualcomm's core naming scheme really, really sucks | Heikki Kultala | 2018/08/29 01:19 AM |
A76 | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/18 01:07 PM |
A76 | Michael S | 2018/08/18 01:32 PM |
A76 | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/18 01:52 PM |
A76 | Michael S | 2018/08/18 02:04 PM |
ARM is somewhat misleading | juanrga | 2018/08/17 12:20 AM |
Surprised?? | Alberto | 2018/08/17 12:52 AM |
Surprised?? | Alberto | 2018/08/17 01:10 AM |
Surprised?? | none | 2018/08/17 01:46 AM |
Garbage talk | Andrei Frumusanu | 2018/08/17 06:30 AM |
Garbage talk | Michael S | 2018/08/17 06:43 AM |
Garbage talk | Andrei Frumusanu | 2018/08/17 08:51 AM |
Garbage talk | Michael S | 2018/08/18 10:29 AM |
Garbage talk | Adrian | 2018/08/17 07:28 AM |
Garbage talk | Alberto | 2018/08/17 08:20 AM |
Garbage talk | Andrei Frumusanu | 2018/08/17 08:48 AM |
Garbage talk | Adrian | 2018/08/17 09:17 AM |
Garbage talk | Andrei Frumusanu | 2018/08/17 09:36 AM |
Garbage talk | Adrian | 2018/08/17 01:53 PM |
Garbage talk | Andrei Frumusanu | 2018/08/17 11:17 PM |
More like a religion he?? ARM has an easy life :) | Alberto | 2018/08/17 08:13 AM |
More like a religion he?? ARM has an easy life :) | Andrei Frumusanu | 2018/08/17 08:34 AM |
More like a religion he?? ARM has an easy life :) | Alberto | 2018/08/17 09:03 AM |
More like a religion he?? ARM has an easy life :) | Andrei Frumusanu | 2018/08/17 09:43 AM |
More like a religion he?? ARM has an easy life :) | Doug S | 2018/08/17 01:17 PM |
15W phone SoCs | AM | 2018/08/17 02:04 PM |
More like a religion he?? ARM has an easy life :) | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/17 11:29 AM |
my future stuff will be better than your old stuff, hey I'm a god at last (NT) | Eric Bron | 2018/08/18 02:34 AM |
my future stuff will be better than your old stuff, hey I'm a god at last | none | 2018/08/18 07:34 AM |