It's marketing material

By: Brett (ggtgp.delete@this.yahoo.com), August 18, 2018 4:33 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Brett (ggtgp.delete@this.yahoo.com) on August 18, 2018 5:22 pm wrote:
> Linus Torvalds (torvalds.delete@this.linux-foundation.org) on August 17, 2018 11:20 am wrote:
> > Michael S (already5chosen.delete@this.yahoo.com) on August 17, 2018 3:13 am wrote:
> > >
> > > I beleive it when I see it.
> > > This particular design team promised power efficient cores in the past. But until now never delivered.
> >
> > "This particular team"? I don't recall a single design (ARM
> > or otherwise) that actually lived up to the promises.
> >
> > It may not be as bad as the ia64 promises always were, so Intel has actually been one of
> > worst offenders, but the "future design" numbers I've seen have always been some horribly
> > bad simulation result that don't take the memory pipeline or the TLB into account, and seem
> > to compare some simulated Spec numbers against actual real numbers. Or something.
> >
> > Even if the design itself is finalized, real hardware is simply something else. Because it turns out that
> > the core is just a small part of the equation if you didn't actually have a real memory controller and
> > real DRAM, but you just plugged in some optimistic numbers for "this is what the memory could do".
> >
> > And then you compare with some existing chip with not "could do", but "actually
> > does", and you look really damn good. But only in simulation - even if the simulation
> > is supposedly cycle accurate (or, more commonly, "at least close to it").
> >
> > So yeah, I'm with you on wanting actual measured numbers. Both for power and performance.
> > And even then it's obviously going to be marketing that cherry-picks the numbers, but at
> > least you can make some judgments by the actual benchmarks they chose to mention.
> >
> > Before that it seems to be almost entirely made up.
> >
> > Maybe ARM has gotten to the point where the changes are so incremental and well-understood that the
> > expected numbers are actually fairly close to reality. But the promised big leap makes me doubt that.
> > Whenever you promise some big leap, my gut feel is "ok, let's wait for reality to hit".
> >
> > So yeah, I'd love to see an actual good A76 design. One with an actual good memory subsystem and TLB
> > fill and reasonable IO. Something that actually would work in a laptop (or something like a NUC).
> >
> > Because dammit, I want an ARM box that I can actually build and test on.
> > Not the "yet another device that can do mobile loads and run GB".
> >
> > Linus
>
> That was a quick 360 from hating me because I said Intel will never sell a cheap compile capable laptop.
> To demanding that ARM server laptop I promised you right now, dammit. ;)
>
> Is the real problem compile time, or that the computer is slow during a compile?
> You can mostly fix the slow issue, at a cost of only a few more seconds of compile time.
>
> Once you actually have a ARM server laptop you run into the same problem.
> But with a server you can reserve a core pair to user processes
> and let it go idle despite the other cores doing a compile.
> You still have to lock user interface related pages from getting paged, etc.
>
> Is Linux good enough that I can dump my Windows plus Cygwin laptop
> install for Linux and use Wine for the few Windows tasks?
> I mostly use my laptop for Remote Desktop to Windows, so that should be easy.
> The last Ubuntu desktop GUI I looked at was not great. ;(

Just googled and found out I can run Office 2016/2013 on Linux using Crossover Wine 17.
Office was the killer that kept me on Windows.
https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2017/12/crossover-17-linux

Any comments on how good Crossover is?
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TopicPosted ByDate
ARM turns to a god and a heroAM2018/08/16 08:32 AM
  ARM turns to a god and a heroMaynard Handley2018/08/16 08:41 AM
    ARM turns to a god and a heroDoug S2018/08/16 10:11 AM
    ARM turns to a god and a heroGeoff Langdale2018/08/16 10:59 PM
      ARM turns to a god and a herodmcq2018/08/17 04:12 AM
  ARM is somewhat misleadingAdrian2018/08/16 10:56 PM
    It's marketing materialGabriele Svelto2018/08/17 12:00 AM
      It's marketing materialMichael S2018/08/17 02:13 AM
        It's marketing materialdmcq2018/08/17 04:23 AM
          It's marketing materialAndrei Frumusanu2018/08/17 06:25 AM
        It's marketing materialLinus Torvalds2018/08/17 10:20 AM
          It's marketing materialGroo2018/08/17 12:44 PM
            It's marketing materialDoug S2018/08/17 01:14 PM
          promises and deliveriesAM2018/08/17 01:32 PM
            promises and deliveriesPassing Through2018/08/17 02:02 PM
              Just by way of clarification Passing Through2018/08/17 02:15 PM
                Just by way of clarification AM2018/08/18 11:49 AM
                  Just by way of clarification Passing Through2018/08/18 12:34 PM
                    This ain't the nineties any longerPassing Through2018/08/18 12:54 PM
                      This ain't the nineties any longerMaynard Handley2018/08/18 01:50 PM
                        This ain't the nineties any longerPassing Through2018/08/18 02:57 PM
                          This ain't the nineties any longerPassing Through2018/09/06 01:42 PM
                            This ain't the nineties any longerMaynard Handley2018/09/07 03:10 PM
                              This ain't the nineties any longerPassing Through2018/09/07 03:48 PM
                                This ain't the nineties any longerMaynard Handley2018/09/07 04:22 PM
                Just by way of clarification Wilco2018/08/18 12:26 PM
                  Just by way of clarification Passing Through2018/08/18 12:39 PM
                  Just by way of clarification none2018/08/18 09:52 PM
                    Just by way of clarification dmcq2018/08/19 07:32 AM
                      Just by way of clarification none2018/08/19 07:54 AM
                        Just by way of clarification dmcq2018/08/19 10:24 AM
                          Just by way of clarification none2018/08/19 10:52 AM
                  Just by way of clarification Gabriele Svelto2018/08/19 05:41 AM
                    Just by way of clarification Passing Through2018/08/19 08:25 AM
                      Whiteboards at Gatwick airport anyone? Passing Through2018/08/20 03:24 AM
          It's marketing materialMichael S2018/08/18 10:12 AM
          It's marketing materialBrett2018/08/18 04:22 PM
            It's marketing materialBrett2018/08/18 04:33 PM
              It's marketing materialAdrian2018/08/19 12:21 AM
        A76AM2018/08/17 01:45 PM
          A76Michael S2018/08/18 10:20 AM
            A76AM2018/08/18 11:39 AM
              A76Michael S2018/08/18 11:49 AM
                A76AM2018/08/18 12:06 PM
                  A76Doug S2018/08/18 12:43 PM
                    A76Maynard Handley2018/08/18 01:42 PM
                      A76Maynard Handley2018/08/18 03:22 PM
                        Why write zeros when one can use metadata?Paul A. Clayton2018/08/18 05:19 PM
                          Why write zeros when one can use metadata?Maynard Handley2018/08/19 10:12 AM
                            Dictionary compress might apply to memcopyPaul A. Clayton2018/08/19 12:45 PM
                        Instructions for zeroingKonrad Schwarz2018/08/30 05:37 AM
                          Instructions for zeroingMaynard Handley2018/08/30 07:41 AM
                          Instructions for zeroingAdrian2018/08/30 10:37 AM
                            dcbz -> dcbzl (was: Instructions for zeroing)hobold2018/08/31 12:50 AM
                              dcbz -> dcbzl (was: Instructions for zeroing)dmcq2018/09/01 04:28 AM
                      A76Travis2018/08/19 10:36 AM
                        A76Maynard Handley2018/08/19 11:22 AM
                          A76Travis2018/08/19 01:07 PM
                            A76Maynard Handley2018/08/19 05:24 PM
                        Remote atomicsmatthew2018/08/19 11:51 AM
                          Remote atomicsMichael S2018/08/19 12:58 PM
                            Remote atomicsmatthew2018/08/19 01:32 PM
                              Remote atomicsMichael S2018/08/19 01:36 PM
                                Remote atomicsmatthew2018/08/19 01:48 PM
                                  Remote atomicsMichael S2018/08/19 02:16 PM
                                    Remote atomicsRicardo B2018/08/20 09:05 AM
                            Remote atomicsdmcq2018/08/19 01:33 PM
                          Remote atomicsTravis2018/08/19 01:32 PM
                            Remote atomicsMichael S2018/08/19 01:46 PM
                              Remote atomicsTravis2018/08/19 04:35 PM
                                Remote atomicsMichael S2018/08/20 02:29 AM
                            Remote atomicsmatthew2018/08/19 06:58 PM
                              Remote atomicsanon2018/08/19 11:59 PM
                                Remote atomicsTravis2018/08/20 09:26 AM
                              Remote atomicsTravis2018/08/20 08:57 AM
                              Remote atomicsLinus Torvalds2018/08/20 03:29 PM
                                Fitting time slices to execution phasesPaul A. Clayton2018/08/21 08:09 AM
                                  Fitting time slices to execution phasesLinus Torvalds2018/08/21 01:34 PM
                                    Fitting time slices to execution phasesLinus Torvalds2018/08/21 02:31 PM
                                      Fitting time slices to execution phasesGabriele Svelto2018/08/21 02:54 PM
                                        Fitting time slices to execution phasesLinus Torvalds2018/08/21 03:26 PM
                                      Fitting time slices to execution phasesTravis2018/08/21 03:21 PM
                                        Fitting time slices to execution phasesLinus Torvalds2018/08/21 03:39 PM
                                          Fitting time slices to execution phasesTravis2018/08/21 03:59 PM
                                            Fitting time slices to execution phasesLinus Torvalds2018/08/21 04:13 PM
                                      Fitting time slices to execution phasesanon2018/08/21 03:27 PM
                                        Fitting time slices to execution phasesLinus Torvalds2018/08/21 05:02 PM
                                          Fitting time slices to execution phasesEtienne2018/08/22 01:28 AM
                                        Fitting time slices to execution phasesGabriele Svelto2018/08/22 02:07 PM
                                          Fitting time slices to execution phasesTravis2018/08/22 03:00 PM
                                          Fitting time slices to execution phasesanon2018/08/22 05:52 PM
                                    Fitting time slices to execution phasesTravis2018/08/21 03:37 PM
                                    Is preventing misuse that complex?Paul A. Clayton2018/08/23 04:42 AM
                                      Is preventing misuse that complex?Linus Torvalds2018/08/23 11:46 AM
                                        Is preventing misuse that complex?Travis2018/08/23 12:29 PM
                                          Is preventing misuse that complex?Travis2018/08/23 12:33 PM
                                            Is preventing misuse that complex?Jeff S.2018/08/24 06:57 AM
                                              Is preventing misuse that complex?Travis2018/08/24 07:47 AM
                                          Is preventing misuse that complex?Linus Torvalds2018/08/23 01:30 PM
                                            Is preventing misuse that complex?Travis2018/08/23 02:11 PM
                                              Is preventing misuse that complex?Linus Torvalds2018/08/24 12:00 PM
                                                Is preventing misuse that complex?Gabriele Svelto2018/08/24 12:25 PM
                                                  Is preventing misuse that complex?Linus Torvalds2018/08/24 12:33 PM
                                  Fitting time slices to execution phasesTravis2018/08/21 02:54 PM
                                rseq: holy grail rwlock?Travis2018/08/21 02:18 PM
                                  rseq: holy grail rwlock?Linus Torvalds2018/08/21 02:59 PM
                                    rseq: holy grail rwlock?Travis2018/08/21 03:27 PM
                                      rseq: holy grail rwlock?Linus Torvalds2018/08/21 04:10 PM
                                        rseq: holy grail rwlock?Travis2018/08/21 05:21 PM
                  ARM design housesMichael S2018/08/21 04:07 AM
                    ARM design housesWilco2018/08/22 11:38 AM
                      ARM design housesMichael S2018/08/22 01:21 PM
                        ARM design housesWilco2018/08/22 02:23 PM
                          ARM design housesMichael S2018/08/29 12:58 AM
                            Qualcomm's core naming scheme really, really sucksHeikki Kultala2018/08/29 01:19 AM
                A76Maynard Handley2018/08/18 01:07 PM
                  A76Michael S2018/08/18 01:32 PM
                    A76Maynard Handley2018/08/18 01:52 PM
                      A76Michael S2018/08/18 02:04 PM
    ARM is somewhat misleadingjuanrga2018/08/17 12:20 AM
    Surprised??Alberto2018/08/17 12:52 AM
      Surprised??Alberto2018/08/17 01:10 AM
      Surprised??none2018/08/17 01:46 AM
      Garbage talkAndrei Frumusanu2018/08/17 06:30 AM
        Garbage talkMichael S2018/08/17 06:43 AM
          Garbage talkAndrei Frumusanu2018/08/17 08:51 AM
            Garbage talkMichael S2018/08/18 10:29 AM
        Garbage talkAdrian2018/08/17 07:28 AM
          Garbage talkAlberto2018/08/17 08:20 AM
          Garbage talkAndrei Frumusanu2018/08/17 08:48 AM
            Garbage talkAdrian2018/08/17 09:17 AM
              Garbage talkAndrei Frumusanu2018/08/17 09:36 AM
                Garbage talkAdrian2018/08/17 01:53 PM
                  Garbage talkAndrei Frumusanu2018/08/17 11:17 PM
        More like a religion he?? ARM has an easy life :)Alberto2018/08/17 08:13 AM
          More like a religion he?? ARM has an easy life :)Andrei Frumusanu2018/08/17 08:34 AM
            More like a religion he?? ARM has an easy life :)Alberto2018/08/17 09:03 AM
              More like a religion he?? ARM has an easy life :)Andrei Frumusanu2018/08/17 09:43 AM
              More like a religion he?? ARM has an easy life :)Doug S2018/08/17 01:17 PM
              15W phone SoCsAM2018/08/17 02:04 PM
          More like a religion he?? ARM has an easy life :)Maynard Handley2018/08/17 11:29 AM
  my future stuff will be better than your old stuff, hey I'm a god at last (NT)Eric Bron2018/08/18 02:34 AM
    my future stuff will be better than your old stuff, hey I'm a god at lastnone2018/08/18 07:34 AM
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