By: Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org), September 7, 2018 4:22 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Passing Through (ireland.delete@this.web.ie) on September 7, 2018 4:48 pm wrote:
> Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org) on September 7, 2018 4:10 pm wrote:
> >
> > I don't know what to make of Jaron Lanier.
> > I think he's largely correct when it comes to the actual (as opposed to possible/ideal)
> > consequences of many of the ideas that get a certain type of Silicon Valleyhead frothing
> > -- things like "the gig economy" and the details of Who Owns the Future.
> > On the other hand, when it comes to VR he feels very much like all those other (IMHO) misguided
> > prophets of disappearing up your own fundament and leaving the real world behind, whether via
> > drugs, meditation, or VR; just another Timothy Leary (and that's not a compliment).
>
> Well, yeah. It was the point that I was making. There's a whole generation out there now, for whom the
> eighties or the nineties is ancient history. We were having a conversation one day, one of the best engineers
> in the group said she didn't remember something. We all said to her, you must remember it, it only happened
> around 1990. Then she piped up and informed us, she'd been born in that year. There was another female
> engineer in the group. She just said, go away, you're only making me feel ancient. One does encounter
> those strange sort of generational overlaps, and places in group conversations like that one, where you
> smash straight into the inter-generational barriers. So I think, from the point of view of some folk born
> in certain decades, it's probably a good idea to learn something about where it started. What I found
> interesting about his talks, was how he had managed to live long enough to realize the stupidity of many
> of the things he had wrote and believed, when he had started out. I always wondered if anyone from that
> generation would have been able after, to come to that realization, or not.
>
> I couldn't believe the other day, when mowing the grass in a lawn, and I had to pick up a laptop computer that
> had been just left out in the rain by kids. That wouldn't have happened when I was growing up. And that generation
> still haven't got out of primary school, not to mind think about what college courses they'll end up doing,
> or what kind of systems and technology they will work with some day. The generation now, who're into stuff
> like leaving computers out in the rain to get destroyed will no doubt make the generation born in the 1990's,
> feel as old as I do compared to them. It goes in cycles. When I was in high school, an institution of around
> seven hundred pupils, a piece of machinery like that would have been it's center piece, for students who were
> into computers. And I remember too, what students managed to get done with extremely limited computational
> resources. A friend I remember once did a picture using a computer, that was used for the cover of a school
> magazine. Nowadays, all the kids are walking around with computers in their hands, constantly making and editing
> pictures of various kinds and sending them to each other without even using wires.
I'll have to listen to his talk. I have it queued up.
Certainly re-evaluating what you thought in your youth is rare. Valley of Genius is an interesting recent history of Silicon Valley done entirely as oral history. What struck me about it was just how fixed so many people were in the beliefs of their youth. When computing failed to develop the way they'd expected, there was never a re-evaluation of "perhaps my mental model about human behavior, or social evolution, is wrong"; always a blaming on conspiracy theories of how "the man" stole computing from its natural evolution as something where everyone was a programmer, or whatever.
Gave me even more respect for Jobs as the one (and pretty much only) in the list who, for all his many faults, WAS actually willing to re-evaluate his initial ideas and recalibrate them. Unclear so far whether the big names of the later generation (people like Larry and Sergei, or Zuck) will likewise recalibrate in the face of evidence and experience...
> Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org) on September 7, 2018 4:10 pm wrote:
> >
> > I don't know what to make of Jaron Lanier.
> > I think he's largely correct when it comes to the actual (as opposed to possible/ideal)
> > consequences of many of the ideas that get a certain type of Silicon Valleyhead frothing
> > -- things like "the gig economy" and the details of Who Owns the Future.
> > On the other hand, when it comes to VR he feels very much like all those other (IMHO) misguided
> > prophets of disappearing up your own fundament and leaving the real world behind, whether via
> > drugs, meditation, or VR; just another Timothy Leary (and that's not a compliment).
>
> Well, yeah. It was the point that I was making. There's a whole generation out there now, for whom the
> eighties or the nineties is ancient history. We were having a conversation one day, one of the best engineers
> in the group said she didn't remember something. We all said to her, you must remember it, it only happened
> around 1990. Then she piped up and informed us, she'd been born in that year. There was another female
> engineer in the group. She just said, go away, you're only making me feel ancient. One does encounter
> those strange sort of generational overlaps, and places in group conversations like that one, where you
> smash straight into the inter-generational barriers. So I think, from the point of view of some folk born
> in certain decades, it's probably a good idea to learn something about where it started. What I found
> interesting about his talks, was how he had managed to live long enough to realize the stupidity of many
> of the things he had wrote and believed, when he had started out. I always wondered if anyone from that
> generation would have been able after, to come to that realization, or not.
>
> I couldn't believe the other day, when mowing the grass in a lawn, and I had to pick up a laptop computer that
> had been just left out in the rain by kids. That wouldn't have happened when I was growing up. And that generation
> still haven't got out of primary school, not to mind think about what college courses they'll end up doing,
> or what kind of systems and technology they will work with some day. The generation now, who're into stuff
> like leaving computers out in the rain to get destroyed will no doubt make the generation born in the 1990's,
> feel as old as I do compared to them. It goes in cycles. When I was in high school, an institution of around
> seven hundred pupils, a piece of machinery like that would have been it's center piece, for students who were
> into computers. And I remember too, what students managed to get done with extremely limited computational
> resources. A friend I remember once did a picture using a computer, that was used for the cover of a school
> magazine. Nowadays, all the kids are walking around with computers in their hands, constantly making and editing
> pictures of various kinds and sending them to each other without even using wires.
I'll have to listen to his talk. I have it queued up.
Certainly re-evaluating what you thought in your youth is rare. Valley of Genius is an interesting recent history of Silicon Valley done entirely as oral history. What struck me about it was just how fixed so many people were in the beliefs of their youth. When computing failed to develop the way they'd expected, there was never a re-evaluation of "perhaps my mental model about human behavior, or social evolution, is wrong"; always a blaming on conspiracy theories of how "the man" stole computing from its natural evolution as something where everyone was a programmer, or whatever.
Gave me even more respect for Jobs as the one (and pretty much only) in the list who, for all his many faults, WAS actually willing to re-evaluate his initial ideas and recalibrate them. Unclear so far whether the big names of the later generation (people like Larry and Sergei, or Zuck) will likewise recalibrate in the face of evidence and experience...
Topic | Posted By | Date |
---|---|---|
ARM turns to a god and a hero | AM | 2018/08/16 08:32 AM |
ARM turns to a god and a hero | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/16 08:41 AM |
ARM turns to a god and a hero | Doug S | 2018/08/16 10:11 AM |
ARM turns to a god and a hero | Geoff Langdale | 2018/08/16 10:59 PM |
ARM turns to a god and a hero | dmcq | 2018/08/17 04:12 AM |
ARM is somewhat misleading | Adrian | 2018/08/16 10:56 PM |
It's marketing material | Gabriele Svelto | 2018/08/17 12:00 AM |
It's marketing material | Michael S | 2018/08/17 02:13 AM |
It's marketing material | dmcq | 2018/08/17 04:23 AM |
It's marketing material | Andrei Frumusanu | 2018/08/17 06:25 AM |
It's marketing material | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/17 10:20 AM |
It's marketing material | Groo | 2018/08/17 12:44 PM |
It's marketing material | Doug S | 2018/08/17 01:14 PM |
promises and deliveries | AM | 2018/08/17 01:32 PM |
promises and deliveries | Passing Through | 2018/08/17 02:02 PM |
Just by way of clarification | Passing Through | 2018/08/17 02:15 PM |
Just by way of clarification | AM | 2018/08/18 11:49 AM |
Just by way of clarification | Passing Through | 2018/08/18 12:34 PM |
This ain't the nineties any longer | Passing Through | 2018/08/18 12:54 PM |
This ain't the nineties any longer | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/18 01:50 PM |
This ain't the nineties any longer | Passing Through | 2018/08/18 02:57 PM |
This ain't the nineties any longer | Passing Through | 2018/09/06 01:42 PM |
This ain't the nineties any longer | Maynard Handley | 2018/09/07 03:10 PM |
This ain't the nineties any longer | Passing Through | 2018/09/07 03:48 PM |
This ain't the nineties any longer | Maynard Handley | 2018/09/07 04:22 PM |
Just by way of clarification | Wilco | 2018/08/18 12:26 PM |
Just by way of clarification | Passing Through | 2018/08/18 12:39 PM |
Just by way of clarification | none | 2018/08/18 09:52 PM |
Just by way of clarification | dmcq | 2018/08/19 07:32 AM |
Just by way of clarification | none | 2018/08/19 07:54 AM |
Just by way of clarification | dmcq | 2018/08/19 10:24 AM |
Just by way of clarification | none | 2018/08/19 10:52 AM |
Just by way of clarification | Gabriele Svelto | 2018/08/19 05:41 AM |
Just by way of clarification | Passing Through | 2018/08/19 08:25 AM |
Whiteboards at Gatwick airport anyone? | Passing Through | 2018/08/20 03:24 AM |
It's marketing material | Michael S | 2018/08/18 10:12 AM |
It's marketing material | Brett | 2018/08/18 04:22 PM |
It's marketing material | Brett | 2018/08/18 04:33 PM |
It's marketing material | Adrian | 2018/08/19 12:21 AM |
A76 | AM | 2018/08/17 01:45 PM |
A76 | Michael S | 2018/08/18 10:20 AM |
A76 | AM | 2018/08/18 11:39 AM |
A76 | Michael S | 2018/08/18 11:49 AM |
A76 | AM | 2018/08/18 12:06 PM |
A76 | Doug S | 2018/08/18 12:43 PM |
A76 | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/18 01:42 PM |
A76 | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/18 03:22 PM |
Why write zeros when one can use metadata? | Paul A. Clayton | 2018/08/18 05:19 PM |
Why write zeros when one can use metadata? | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/19 10:12 AM |
Dictionary compress might apply to memcopy | Paul A. Clayton | 2018/08/19 12:45 PM |
Instructions for zeroing | Konrad Schwarz | 2018/08/30 05:37 AM |
Instructions for zeroing | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/30 07:41 AM |
Instructions for zeroing | Adrian | 2018/08/30 10:37 AM |
dcbz -> dcbzl (was: Instructions for zeroing) | hobold | 2018/08/31 12:50 AM |
dcbz -> dcbzl (was: Instructions for zeroing) | dmcq | 2018/09/01 04:28 AM |
A76 | Travis | 2018/08/19 10:36 AM |
A76 | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/19 11:22 AM |
A76 | Travis | 2018/08/19 01:07 PM |
A76 | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/19 05:24 PM |
Remote atomics | matthew | 2018/08/19 11:51 AM |
Remote atomics | Michael S | 2018/08/19 12:58 PM |
Remote atomics | matthew | 2018/08/19 01:32 PM |
Remote atomics | Michael S | 2018/08/19 01:36 PM |
Remote atomics | matthew | 2018/08/19 01:48 PM |
Remote atomics | Michael S | 2018/08/19 02:16 PM |
Remote atomics | Ricardo B | 2018/08/20 09:05 AM |
Remote atomics | dmcq | 2018/08/19 01:33 PM |
Remote atomics | Travis | 2018/08/19 01:32 PM |
Remote atomics | Michael S | 2018/08/19 01:46 PM |
Remote atomics | Travis | 2018/08/19 04:35 PM |
Remote atomics | Michael S | 2018/08/20 02:29 AM |
Remote atomics | matthew | 2018/08/19 06:58 PM |
Remote atomics | anon | 2018/08/19 11:59 PM |
Remote atomics | Travis | 2018/08/20 09:26 AM |
Remote atomics | Travis | 2018/08/20 08:57 AM |
Remote atomics | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/20 03:29 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Paul A. Clayton | 2018/08/21 08:09 AM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/21 01:34 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/21 02:31 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Gabriele Svelto | 2018/08/21 02:54 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/21 03:26 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Travis | 2018/08/21 03:21 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/21 03:39 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Travis | 2018/08/21 03:59 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/21 04:13 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | anon | 2018/08/21 03:27 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/21 05:02 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Etienne | 2018/08/22 01:28 AM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Gabriele Svelto | 2018/08/22 02:07 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Travis | 2018/08/22 03:00 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | anon | 2018/08/22 05:52 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Travis | 2018/08/21 03:37 PM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Paul A. Clayton | 2018/08/23 04:42 AM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/23 11:46 AM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Travis | 2018/08/23 12:29 PM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Travis | 2018/08/23 12:33 PM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Jeff S. | 2018/08/24 06:57 AM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Travis | 2018/08/24 07:47 AM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/23 01:30 PM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Travis | 2018/08/23 02:11 PM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/24 12:00 PM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Gabriele Svelto | 2018/08/24 12:25 PM |
Is preventing misuse that complex? | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/24 12:33 PM |
Fitting time slices to execution phases | Travis | 2018/08/21 02:54 PM |
rseq: holy grail rwlock? | Travis | 2018/08/21 02:18 PM |
rseq: holy grail rwlock? | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/21 02:59 PM |
rseq: holy grail rwlock? | Travis | 2018/08/21 03:27 PM |
rseq: holy grail rwlock? | Linus Torvalds | 2018/08/21 04:10 PM |
rseq: holy grail rwlock? | Travis | 2018/08/21 05:21 PM |
ARM design houses | Michael S | 2018/08/21 04:07 AM |
ARM design houses | Wilco | 2018/08/22 11:38 AM |
ARM design houses | Michael S | 2018/08/22 01:21 PM |
ARM design houses | Wilco | 2018/08/22 02:23 PM |
ARM design houses | Michael S | 2018/08/29 12:58 AM |
Qualcomm's core naming scheme really, really sucks | Heikki Kultala | 2018/08/29 01:19 AM |
A76 | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/18 01:07 PM |
A76 | Michael S | 2018/08/18 01:32 PM |
A76 | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/18 01:52 PM |
A76 | Michael S | 2018/08/18 02:04 PM |
ARM is somewhat misleading | juanrga | 2018/08/17 12:20 AM |
Surprised?? | Alberto | 2018/08/17 12:52 AM |
Surprised?? | Alberto | 2018/08/17 01:10 AM |
Surprised?? | none | 2018/08/17 01:46 AM |
Garbage talk | Andrei Frumusanu | 2018/08/17 06:30 AM |
Garbage talk | Michael S | 2018/08/17 06:43 AM |
Garbage talk | Andrei Frumusanu | 2018/08/17 08:51 AM |
Garbage talk | Michael S | 2018/08/18 10:29 AM |
Garbage talk | Adrian | 2018/08/17 07:28 AM |
Garbage talk | Alberto | 2018/08/17 08:20 AM |
Garbage talk | Andrei Frumusanu | 2018/08/17 08:48 AM |
Garbage talk | Adrian | 2018/08/17 09:17 AM |
Garbage talk | Andrei Frumusanu | 2018/08/17 09:36 AM |
Garbage talk | Adrian | 2018/08/17 01:53 PM |
Garbage talk | Andrei Frumusanu | 2018/08/17 11:17 PM |
More like a religion he?? ARM has an easy life :) | Alberto | 2018/08/17 08:13 AM |
More like a religion he?? ARM has an easy life :) | Andrei Frumusanu | 2018/08/17 08:34 AM |
More like a religion he?? ARM has an easy life :) | Alberto | 2018/08/17 09:03 AM |
More like a religion he?? ARM has an easy life :) | Andrei Frumusanu | 2018/08/17 09:43 AM |
More like a religion he?? ARM has an easy life :) | Doug S | 2018/08/17 01:17 PM |
15W phone SoCs | AM | 2018/08/17 02:04 PM |
More like a religion he?? ARM has an easy life :) | Maynard Handley | 2018/08/17 11:29 AM |
my future stuff will be better than your old stuff, hey I'm a god at last (NT) | Eric Bron | 2018/08/18 02:34 AM |
my future stuff will be better than your old stuff, hey I'm a god at last | none | 2018/08/18 07:34 AM |