Some power efficiency figures

By: AM (myname4rwt.delete@this.jee-male.com), October 12, 2018 3:59 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Simon Farnsworth (simon.delete@this.farnz.org.uk) on October 12, 2018 1:19 am wrote:
> anon (anon.delete@this.anon.com) on October 11, 2018 3:49 pm wrote:
> > AM (myname4rwt.delete@this.jee-male.com) on October 11, 2018 11:02 am wrote:
> > > Foo_ (foo.delete@this.nomail.com) on October 11, 2018 10:22 am wrote:
> > > > AM (myname4rwt.delete@this.jee-male.com) on October 11, 2018 9:15 am wrote:
> > > > > And considering Cloudflare's well-known stance wrt ARM vs x86 (see e.g. https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/design/cloudflare-bets-arm-servers-it-expands-its-data-center-network)
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I suspect -- assuming Cloudflare folks are negotiation-smart -- they got these rejects not just for
> > > > > free, but for a hefty subzero price, part of their deal being this blog post mentioning they're upgrading
> > > > > their fleet to an off-roadmap/custom Intel CPU "offering considerable value in performance per watt".
> > > >
> > > > Why would Intel pay to advertise a CPU model that they don't want to sell?
> > >
> > > Not to advertise a "CPU model", but for Cloudflare staying with
> > > Intel -- their ARM intentions are well-known (link above).
> > >
> > > > > With Centriq, ThunderX2, and finally Ampere eMAG servers available (https://insidehpc.com/2018/10/ampere-augments-arm-servers-new-developer-platform/),
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess the value of such PR project targeted at various business execs is well worth
> > > > > selling rejects at negative price to prevent someone size of Cloudflare switching to
> > > > > ARM.
> > > >
> > > > There are not many companies "size of Cloudflare" (in # of servers) around the world, I think.
> > > > And I doubt those companies make CPU architecture decisions by reading blog posts.
> > >
> > > Nothing more than sloppy wording on my part -- companies who consider, or are forced to consider,
> > > power efficiency and computer density are surely not limited to size of Cloudflare.
> >
> > They're all already looking at ARM, AMD, some even POWER.
> > They all have a strong interest to make non-Intel look
> > good on their workloads even if they don't switch, to negotiate with Intel. PR has nothing to do with it.
> >
> And, since we're looking at figures, the important figure of merit is whether the ARM server chip vendors
> are going to make enough money to sustain the business in the medium term. The fact that Qualcomm has scaled
> down its server division is a bad sign in this regard, as is the dropping out of other players. Is this
> chip really good enough to survive anything AMD and Intel are going to do in the next 5 years?
>
> Fundamentally, if you're moving to a new ISA to get competitive chips, you want a strong chance that there
> will be competitive products out there with the new ISA going forward. That means either a supplier that's
> showing an awareness that they could be waiting years for a return on investment and need to just keep going,
> or enough of a market that even if one supplier drops out, another will step in to reap the profits.
>
> Right now, x86 has both of those - Intel provides the first, and the market for x86 CPUs
> allows AMD to provide the second. ARM nearly had the second with Cavium and Qualcomm both
> in it, and until Qualcomm downscaled their server team, they had the first, too.

These guys don't appear to have any issues with ISA or server vendor lock-in at all -- they don't have any problem writing ARM asm just for the sake of studying what Centriq can offer, getting x-fold gap in power efficiency vs Intel servers they owned among other findings.

And since I think it was you who set out to prove a while ago that ARM platform was less power efficient than Intel's for [semi-]mobile devices we discussed, here are a few links for you (as well as anyone else not following their work):

https://blog.cloudflare.com/arm-takes-wing/ - nginx power efficiency ~2x vs Skylake, ~3x vs Broadwell
https://blog.cloudflare.com/neon-is-the-new-black/ - jpegtran 1.3x faster, 6.5x more power efficient vs Skylake
https://blog.cloudflare.com/porting-our-software-to-arm64/
etc.
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TopicPosted ByDate
Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelnobody in particular2018/10/10 07:55 AM
  Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelnone2018/10/10 08:25 AM
  Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelanon2018/10/10 08:39 AM
  Cloudflare jumps to custom IntelMaynard Handley2018/10/10 09:26 AM
    Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelnobody in particular2018/10/10 12:03 PM
      Cloudflare jumps to custom IntelWilco2018/10/10 12:25 PM
        Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelanon2018/10/10 01:07 PM
          Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelhobold2018/10/10 01:14 PM
          Cloudflare jumps to custom IntelWilco2018/10/10 01:58 PM
            Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelanon2018/10/10 07:56 PM
              Cloudflare jumps to custom IntelWilco2018/10/11 01:18 AM
                Cloudflare jumps to custom IntelMichael S2018/10/11 02:43 AM
                Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelanon2018/10/11 02:30 PM
          Cloudflare jumps to custom IntelBeastian2018/10/10 04:33 PM
            Cloudflare jumps to custom IntelDoug S2018/10/11 01:38 AM
          Qualcomm restructured server chip unitjuanrga2018/10/11 02:04 AM
            Qualcomm restructured server chip unitnone2018/10/11 03:38 AM
              Qualcomm restructured server chip unitMichael S2018/10/11 06:48 AM
                Qualcomm restructured server chip unitnone2018/10/11 08:15 AM
      Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelanon2018/10/10 12:29 PM
  Cloudflare jumps to custom IntelDoug S2018/10/10 11:10 AM
    Cloudflare jumps to custom Inteldmcq2018/10/10 11:27 AM
    Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelanon2018/10/10 02:07 PM
      Cloudflare jumps to custom IntelMichael S2018/10/11 03:06 AM
        Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelanon2018/10/11 06:02 AM
          Why can't two "computers" be on one board?Paul A. Clayton2018/10/11 06:49 PM
            Why can't two "computers" be on one board?rwessel2018/10/12 12:01 AM
              TwinBladesPaul A. Clayton2018/10/12 04:52 AM
            Why can't two "computers" be on one board?Doug S2018/10/12 01:01 AM
              Why can't two "computers" be on one board?Etienne2018/10/12 02:04 AM
              [O.T.] bladesMichael S2018/10/12 02:17 AM
                [O.T.] bladesAdrian2018/10/12 04:17 AM
              Why can't two "computers" be on one board?anon2018/10/12 03:04 AM
                Why can't two "computers" be on one board?rwessel2018/10/12 07:29 AM
                  Why can't two "computers" be on one board?anon2018/10/12 07:55 AM
              1S vs 2SWes Felter2018/10/12 01:30 PM
                1S vs 2SDoug S2018/10/12 02:35 PM
            Why can't two "computers" be on one board?anon2018/10/12 03:10 AM
            Why can't two "computers" be on one board?hobel2018/10/12 06:53 AM
      Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelanon.12018/10/11 09:16 AM
  Weird numbersjuanrga2018/10/11 02:11 AM
    Weird numbersanon2018/10/11 06:08 AM
      Weird numbersjuanrga2018/10/11 10:34 AM
        Weird numbersanon2018/10/11 11:24 AM
  Look at the figures, folksAM2018/10/11 08:15 AM
    Look at the figures, folksFoo_2018/10/11 09:22 AM
      Look at the figures, folksAM2018/10/11 10:02 AM
        Look at the figures, folksanon2018/10/11 02:49 PM
          Look at the figures, folksSimon Farnsworth2018/10/12 12:19 AM
            Some power efficiency figuresAM2018/10/12 03:59 AM
              Some power efficiency figuresSimon Farnsworth2018/10/12 09:00 AM
                Some power efficiency figuresMaynard Handley2018/10/12 09:33 AM
                  Some power efficiency figuresSimon Farnsworth2018/10/12 10:51 AM
                    Some power efficiency figuresanon2018/10/12 12:55 PM
                    Some power efficiency figuresMaynard Handley2018/10/12 02:37 PM
                      Some power efficiency figuresanon2018/10/12 03:04 PM
                        Some power efficiency figuresMaynard Handley2018/10/12 03:16 PM
                          Some power efficiency figuresanon2018/10/13 01:13 AM
                          Some power efficiency figuresanon2018/10/13 04:06 AM
                      Some power efficiency figuresSimon Farnsworth2018/10/13 03:52 AM
                        Some power efficiency figuresanon2018/10/13 04:17 AM
                Reread what you saidAM2018/10/14 08:14 AM
          Important clue for several postersAM2018/10/12 03:48 AM
            Important clue for several postersjuanrga2018/10/12 09:07 AM
              Important clue for several postersWilco2018/10/12 12:50 PM
                Thanks (NT)juanrga2018/10/13 03:17 AM
            Important clue for several postersWes Felter2018/10/12 01:42 PM
              Important clue for several postersAM2018/10/14 08:00 AM
                Cloudflare CPU has better perf/WDavid Kanter2018/10/15 07:39 AM
                  Cloudflare CPU has better perf/Wanon2018/10/15 08:10 AM
                    Cloudflare CPU has better perf/WDavid Kanter2018/10/15 10:09 AM
                      Cloudflare CPU has better perf/Wanon2018/10/15 11:52 AM
            Important clue for several postersanon2018/10/13 01:20 AM
              Important clue for several postersAM2018/10/14 07:58 AM
                Important clue for several postersanon2018/10/14 02:29 PM
                  Important clue for several postersAM2018/10/16 09:18 AM
                    Important clue for several postersanon2018/10/16 10:35 AM
                    Important clue for several postersanon2018/10/17 03:01 PM
    Look at the figures, folksDavid Kanter2018/10/13 05:08 AM
      Look at the figures, folksAM2018/10/14 07:50 AM
        Look at the figures, folksDavid Kanter2018/10/14 08:25 PM
          Look at the figures, folksMichael S2018/10/15 01:16 AM
            What?!AM2018/10/16 09:12 AM
          ARM servers in AzureMichael S2018/10/15 01:19 AM
            ARM servers in Azurejuanrga2018/10/15 04:41 AM
              ARM servers in AzureMichael S2018/10/15 04:46 AM
              ARM servers in AzureAnon2018/10/15 04:54 AM
                ARM servers in Azureanon2018/10/15 06:40 AM
          Look at the figures, folksAM2018/10/16 09:07 AM
        Look at the figures, folksMichael S2018/10/15 01:25 AM
        What figures?someone2018/10/15 04:35 AM
          What figures?AM2018/10/16 09:03 AM
            What figures?someone2018/10/17 07:19 AM
              What figures?wumpus2018/10/18 07:46 AM
      Look at the figures, folksJames2018/10/15 04:16 AM
        Look at the figures, folksAnne O. Nymous2018/10/15 04:31 AM
          Look at the figures, folksanonymou52018/10/15 04:47 AM
            Look at the figures, folksAnne O. Nymous2018/10/15 04:55 AM
        Watch the financial reportsAnon2018/10/15 05:00 AM
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