Important clue for several posters

By: AM (myname4rwt.delete@this.jee-male.com), October 14, 2018 7:58 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
anon (anon.delete@this.anon.com) on October 13, 2018 2:20 am wrote:
> AM (myname4rwt.delete@this.jee-male.com) on October 12, 2018 4:48 am wrote:
> > anon (anon.delete@this.anon.com) on October 11, 2018 3:49 pm wrote:
> > > AM (myname4rwt.delete@this.jee-male.com) on October 11, 2018 11:02 am wrote:
> > > > Foo_ (foo.delete@this.nomail.com) on October 11, 2018 10:22 am wrote:
> > > > > AM (myname4rwt.delete@this.jee-male.com) on October 11, 2018 9:15 am wrote:
> > > > > > And considering Cloudflare's well-known stance wrt ARM vs x86 (see e.g. https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/design/cloudflare-bets-arm-servers-it-expands-its-data-center-network)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I suspect -- assuming Cloudflare folks are negotiation-smart -- they got these rejects not just for
> > > > > > free, but for a hefty subzero price, part of their deal being this blog post mentioning they're upgrading
> > > > > > their fleet to an off-roadmap/custom Intel CPU "offering considerable value in performance per watt".
> > > > >
> > > > > Why would Intel pay to advertise a CPU model that they don't want to sell?
> > > >
> > > > Not to advertise a "CPU model", but for Cloudflare staying with
> > > > Intel -- their ARM intentions are well-known (link above).
> > > >
> > > > > > With Centriq, ThunderX2, and finally Ampere eMAG servers available (https://insidehpc.com/2018/10/ampere-augments-arm-servers-new-developer-platform/),
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I guess the value of such PR project targeted at various business execs is well worth
> > > > > > selling rejects at negative price to prevent someone size of Cloudflare switching to
> > > > > > ARM.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are not many companies "size of Cloudflare" (in # of servers) around the world, I think.
> > > > > And I doubt those companies make CPU architecture decisions by reading blog posts.
> > > >
> > > > Nothing more than sloppy wording on my part -- companies who consider, or are forced to consider,
> > > > power efficiency and computer density are surely not limited to size of Cloudflare.
> > >
> > > They're all already looking at ARM, AMD, some even POWER.
> > > They all have a strong interest to make non-Intel look
> > > good on their workloads even if they don't switch, to negotiate with Intel. PR has nothing to do with it.
> >
> > The thing is, regardless of whether Intel had PR-related considerations in this deal or not,
> > there's no denial they exist -- it simply wouldn't be smart for them not to take any PR advantage
> > out of a deal like that.
>
> What PR are you talking about? You were saying there was some PR issue as though other companies of similar scale
> would look at this posting and suddenly get the bright idea to test ARM CPUs. Now it's pointed out how ridiculous
> that was, you claim to be giving me a clue! The nerve. Since you went crazy a while back and insisted I was several
> other people, I'll go ahead and call you Maynard because that's a leaf right out of his book.

You clearly have issues with taking some posts too personal for some reason; besides, you misread me: I didn't mean you in person (or I'd say so, as I don't have any problem with that). Or are you from the camp who bought Intel's 28-core 5 GHz Computex demo too, hence such reaction? :)

Anyway, if you really happen to believe that Intel made a custom part for Cloudflare specifically tuned to their workload as they did for Amazon, FB, Google -- keep believing, I don't buy that as figures suggest otherwise.

> > Just like it wouldn't be smart for Cloudflare not to do a bit of digging
> > and tell Intel upfront they are being offered rejects of commercial bins.
>
> ?
>
> >
> > Besides, the whole assumption that Intel went out of its way and made a custom part for
> > Cloudflare tuned to suit their workloads is way too fishy to consider it seriously (they
> > may have claimed whatever they wanted to Cloudflare in private talks when they approached
> > them to keep them as a customer, but claims are one thing, facts are another).
>
> So you take them at their word when they say good things about ARM, but they
> must be lying when they said something good about Intel. Interesting logic.

No, you're definitely not friends with logic (as I think I mentioned to you before): I don't dispute their measurements regardless of whether they are x86 or ARM; but trivial math shows that power efficiency of this SKU is worse than anything Intel sells, and had Cloudflare run comparisons vs Intel's commercial bins of 24-core chips rather than their G8 hw, it would become obvious even to you.

> >
> > And, quite frankly, after their notorious 28-core 5 GHz demo at Computex last summer the assumption
> > of Intel doing a custom part for Cloudflare which some posters here seem to take for granted, is
> > downright dumb. A nice video in this regard https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozcEel1rNKM
> >
> > Interestingly enough, my comment to their blog post which says literally
> > "There's likely more to this story than meets the eye from the post
> > [link to this thread on RWT]"
> >
> > clearly did not pass the moderation.
> >
> > I posted another one mainly to check whether it would be blocked
> > as well, but it's early to decide yet on this one:
> > "Considering that both ThunderX2 servers and Ampere eMAG server-type development systems are
> > available for purchase (https://developer.amperecomputing.com), why don't you guys get hold
> > of them and publish some performance and power consumption benchmarks as you did before? "
>
> You hold a great chip on your shoulder, but sadly for you none of that had
> anything to do with me or my comment to your post about this PR nonsense.
>
> You have to argue what's in front of you, not against all the people you perceive have wronged
> you in the past on this and various other swamps around the internet. It's just ridiculous
> having a big tantrum like this when some small things is pointed out and starting to cry about
> how you must have been right all those other times and the big meanies were wrong.
>

My post was mainly about figures, and as long as PR point is concerned, there's no nonsense. You're missing a simple fact that Cloudflare is significant enough today that their choice of hardware can influence many others' decisions.
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TopicPosted ByDate
Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelnobody in particular2018/10/10 07:55 AM
  Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelnone2018/10/10 08:25 AM
  Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelanon2018/10/10 08:39 AM
  Cloudflare jumps to custom IntelMaynard Handley2018/10/10 09:26 AM
    Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelnobody in particular2018/10/10 12:03 PM
      Cloudflare jumps to custom IntelWilco2018/10/10 12:25 PM
        Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelanon2018/10/10 01:07 PM
          Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelhobold2018/10/10 01:14 PM
          Cloudflare jumps to custom IntelWilco2018/10/10 01:58 PM
            Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelanon2018/10/10 07:56 PM
              Cloudflare jumps to custom IntelWilco2018/10/11 01:18 AM
                Cloudflare jumps to custom IntelMichael S2018/10/11 02:43 AM
                Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelanon2018/10/11 02:30 PM
          Cloudflare jumps to custom IntelBeastian2018/10/10 04:33 PM
            Cloudflare jumps to custom IntelDoug S2018/10/11 01:38 AM
          Qualcomm restructured server chip unitjuanrga2018/10/11 02:04 AM
            Qualcomm restructured server chip unitnone2018/10/11 03:38 AM
              Qualcomm restructured server chip unitMichael S2018/10/11 06:48 AM
                Qualcomm restructured server chip unitnone2018/10/11 08:15 AM
      Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelanon2018/10/10 12:29 PM
  Cloudflare jumps to custom IntelDoug S2018/10/10 11:10 AM
    Cloudflare jumps to custom Inteldmcq2018/10/10 11:27 AM
    Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelanon2018/10/10 02:07 PM
      Cloudflare jumps to custom IntelMichael S2018/10/11 03:06 AM
        Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelanon2018/10/11 06:02 AM
          Why can't two "computers" be on one board?Paul A. Clayton2018/10/11 06:49 PM
            Why can't two "computers" be on one board?rwessel2018/10/12 12:01 AM
              TwinBladesPaul A. Clayton2018/10/12 04:52 AM
            Why can't two "computers" be on one board?Doug S2018/10/12 01:01 AM
              Why can't two "computers" be on one board?Etienne2018/10/12 02:04 AM
              [O.T.] bladesMichael S2018/10/12 02:17 AM
                [O.T.] bladesAdrian2018/10/12 04:17 AM
              Why can't two "computers" be on one board?anon2018/10/12 03:04 AM
                Why can't two "computers" be on one board?rwessel2018/10/12 07:29 AM
                  Why can't two "computers" be on one board?anon2018/10/12 07:55 AM
              1S vs 2SWes Felter2018/10/12 01:30 PM
                1S vs 2SDoug S2018/10/12 02:35 PM
            Why can't two "computers" be on one board?anon2018/10/12 03:10 AM
            Why can't two "computers" be on one board?hobel2018/10/12 06:53 AM
      Cloudflare jumps to custom Intelanon.12018/10/11 09:16 AM
  Weird numbersjuanrga2018/10/11 02:11 AM
    Weird numbersanon2018/10/11 06:08 AM
      Weird numbersjuanrga2018/10/11 10:34 AM
        Weird numbersanon2018/10/11 11:24 AM
  Look at the figures, folksAM2018/10/11 08:15 AM
    Look at the figures, folksFoo_2018/10/11 09:22 AM
      Look at the figures, folksAM2018/10/11 10:02 AM
        Look at the figures, folksanon2018/10/11 02:49 PM
          Look at the figures, folksSimon Farnsworth2018/10/12 12:19 AM
            Some power efficiency figuresAM2018/10/12 03:59 AM
              Some power efficiency figuresSimon Farnsworth2018/10/12 09:00 AM
                Some power efficiency figuresMaynard Handley2018/10/12 09:33 AM
                  Some power efficiency figuresSimon Farnsworth2018/10/12 10:51 AM
                    Some power efficiency figuresanon2018/10/12 12:55 PM
                    Some power efficiency figuresMaynard Handley2018/10/12 02:37 PM
                      Some power efficiency figuresanon2018/10/12 03:04 PM
                        Some power efficiency figuresMaynard Handley2018/10/12 03:16 PM
                          Some power efficiency figuresanon2018/10/13 01:13 AM
                          Some power efficiency figuresanon2018/10/13 04:06 AM
                      Some power efficiency figuresSimon Farnsworth2018/10/13 03:52 AM
                        Some power efficiency figuresanon2018/10/13 04:17 AM
                Reread what you saidAM2018/10/14 08:14 AM
          Important clue for several postersAM2018/10/12 03:48 AM
            Important clue for several postersjuanrga2018/10/12 09:07 AM
              Important clue for several postersWilco2018/10/12 12:50 PM
                Thanks (NT)juanrga2018/10/13 03:17 AM
            Important clue for several postersWes Felter2018/10/12 01:42 PM
              Important clue for several postersAM2018/10/14 08:00 AM
                Cloudflare CPU has better perf/WDavid Kanter2018/10/15 07:39 AM
                  Cloudflare CPU has better perf/Wanon2018/10/15 08:10 AM
                    Cloudflare CPU has better perf/WDavid Kanter2018/10/15 10:09 AM
                      Cloudflare CPU has better perf/Wanon2018/10/15 11:52 AM
            Important clue for several postersanon2018/10/13 01:20 AM
              Important clue for several postersAM2018/10/14 07:58 AM
                Important clue for several postersanon2018/10/14 02:29 PM
                  Important clue for several postersAM2018/10/16 09:18 AM
                    Important clue for several postersanon2018/10/16 10:35 AM
                    Important clue for several postersanon2018/10/17 03:01 PM
    Look at the figures, folksDavid Kanter2018/10/13 05:08 AM
      Look at the figures, folksAM2018/10/14 07:50 AM
        Look at the figures, folksDavid Kanter2018/10/14 08:25 PM
          Look at the figures, folksMichael S2018/10/15 01:16 AM
            What?!AM2018/10/16 09:12 AM
          ARM servers in AzureMichael S2018/10/15 01:19 AM
            ARM servers in Azurejuanrga2018/10/15 04:41 AM
              ARM servers in AzureMichael S2018/10/15 04:46 AM
              ARM servers in AzureAnon2018/10/15 04:54 AM
                ARM servers in Azureanon2018/10/15 06:40 AM
          Look at the figures, folksAM2018/10/16 09:07 AM
        Look at the figures, folksMichael S2018/10/15 01:25 AM
        What figures?someone2018/10/15 04:35 AM
          What figures?AM2018/10/16 09:03 AM
            What figures?someone2018/10/17 07:19 AM
              What figures?wumpus2018/10/18 07:46 AM
      Look at the figures, folksJames2018/10/15 04:16 AM
        Look at the figures, folksAnne O. Nymous2018/10/15 04:31 AM
          Look at the figures, folksanonymou52018/10/15 04:47 AM
            Look at the figures, folksAnne O. Nymous2018/10/15 04:55 AM
        Watch the financial reportsAnon2018/10/15 05:00 AM
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