AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoC

By: Doug S (foo.delete@this.bar.bar), November 10, 2018 3:43 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org) on November 9, 2018 7:23 pm wrote:
> Doug S (foo.delete@this.bar.bar) on November 9, 2018 11:15 am wrote:
> > Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org) on November 8, 2018 2:48 pm wrote:
> > > Of course this assumes (and I say this without proof because I'm not interested in, yet again, arguing the
> > > subject, simply pointing out that the fact that there are many loud voices does not make something true or
> > > universally believed) that the "PC" and the "tablet" are
> > > and will remain different devices, because of human
> > > factors; and that most people will ultimately use both because neither is the best at everything.
> >
> >
> > I agree they will remain separate devices, but some tasks that formerly couldn't
> > be done on a tablet will be, so over time tablets will gain utility while PCs will
> > have an ever shortening list of "things that can only be done on a PC".
> >
> > I assume when you say "most people will ultimately use both" you mean different people, right? I think
> > most make a choice - if almost everything they do is fine on a tablet, and there are a few things that
> > are a pain on the tablet but can be done they'll suffer through those few things rather than get a
> > PC in addition to the tablet for them. Likewise, people who need a PC for most everything and have
> > a few things where a tablet would be better aren't likely to buy a tablet, they'll suffer through those
> > few things that are more inconvenient on a PC. There are of course some who fall in the middle where
> > it makes too much sense to own and regularly use both, but IMHO these are the outliers.
> >
> > Now if you look at it in isolation, since the tablet market has existed less than a decade (I consider
> > the iPad intro 'year 0' for tablets, the ones that came before were never remotely popular) and PCs these
> > days are useful well beyond a decade barring hardware failure, most people with tablets also have PCs.
> > But thinking of several tablet heavy users I know, they have PCs dating from before they bought their first
> > tablet, but the question is: will they ever replace their PC? I think the answer is probably no.
>
> No, I mean THE SAME people will use both. Are you willing to concede that most people
> will own and use BOTH a smartWatch and a smartPhone, each optimized for different interactions?
> (Admittedly right now that looks like more of an Apple-specific claim, but one day Android
> will surface smartWatches that are more than a minority taste.)


Willing to concede that MOST people will own and use both a smartwatch and smartphone? Hell no, a smartwatch has extremely limited application today. Apple isn't exactly setting the world on fire with Watch sales, it only looks like a success when you compare it to Android smartwatches. Do even 5% of iPhone owners own a Watch?

I see three main categories of use, if you think I'm missing something please add it. You can use it as an adjunct to your smartphone, so you get notifications on it so you can see a text without looking at your phone - IMHO this will ALWAYS be a niche because most people don't need a way to not take their phone out of their pocket. You can use for fitness, but there already were and still are narrowly focused devices that can do the same and are cheaper. There's a nascent market for health related applications, which I think will grow over time and might well become a reason for smartwatches to reach the mass market - only then, if this happens, will MOST people own and use both...years from now.


>
> PCs and tablets are distinguished not by their CPUs and OSs, but by where they make the tradeoff between
> the convenience of mobility and the power of a kbd+pointing device. This won't change (at least not until
> smartGlasses REALLY become a thing, and my crystal ball can't yet see beyond that particular upheaval).
> Insofar as one ever has tasks that require comparing information from multiple sources (many windows),
> and rapid selection/movement/editing of large amounts of data (trackpad, keyboard, and chording between
> the two) mobile UIs are just HORRIBLE, and that has not really changed in ten years.
>
> NOW:
> - CAN you do everything on mobile? Well some people insist you can, and that may be true,
> in the same way that you can write an entire program using only the x86 MOV instruction.
> But just because you can do something doesn't mean it's a sane choice most of the time.
>
> - Does "everyone" need to compare information and select/move edit it? That's somewhat more contentious.
> I have zero interest in going into the sociology and politics of this, so let me simply lay out
> a sketch. It is likely true as an empirical matter that there's a large fraction of the population
> that have zero interest in such activity, and if all you care about is the short-term commercial
> calculation of what can be sold to whom, that may be all that matters. But if you care about anything
> larger, be that human flourishing, civic engagement, or the long term viability of your platform,
> you need to care about more than just that fraction of society.
> Apple was correct that the GUI WAS a better UI for most people most of the time. BUT (and this
> is the part that always gets ignored) the original Mac of PURE GUI and not even any arrow keys
> is not the Mac and GUI of today. People WANT and make good use of arrow keys, and even more, CLIs
> very soon returned to the Mac in particular domains. Apple was forced to provide one in MPW, with
> more limited versions in everything from Excel to Hypercard to Think C to Mathematica.
> If you live in an apartment you may well believe that no-one in the world could ever need a chain saw; but
> in turns out that actually plenty of people do NOT live in apartments; and even if you only use your chainsaw
> once a year, and even if it's a wimpy safety-first electric chainsaw, not the terrifying monster used by
> professional lumberjacks, when you do need that chainsaw it's very nice to have it available.
>
> Or to put it differently, it is the capability of the Mac that allow
> iOS to remain simple. Killing off the Mac ends that symbiosis...


I pretty much agree with that, that the capability of the Mac/PC allows iOS to remain simple because Apple has chosen to draw a line between them. iOS and the Ax SoC could obviously support full multitasking, they've chosen to limit it to keep iOS simpler, extend battery life, and because the utility of multitasking is limited in the types of interaction you do with a smartphone.

That there is a line - even if it isn't as brightly drawn today as it was five years ago - in the Apple world between tablets and Macs, doesn't mean that a lot of people need both. Just like some people were fine with the early Mac that had no CLI or arrow keys, some people are fine with smartphone/tablet interactions and have no need of the expanded utility of a PC, others use their smartphone as a phone and do all their "computing" on a PC. Obviously the latter could do some of it on a smartphone/tablet - you can browse the internet almost equally well on either type of device, but it is hard to argue that a tablet is superior for that.

The real enemy of increased tablet sales isn't the PC, its the smartphone. Screens over 6" are common these days, allowing them to be much more useful for e.g. browsing than they were at 4". That's why the iPad Mini has apparently been left to die, and Apple has been going larger in the iPad Pro line. That's Apple trying to draw a line between the smartphones and tablets, along with increasing capability like the Pencil, split screen multitasking, etc. As the capability of the tablet increases, that line between the tablet and the laptop moves, but it doesn't disappear.

The enemy of increased (or even maintained) PC sales is ALSO the smartphone, but not for the same reason. It is because of people whose first interactions with a computer were with a smartphone - people born this century, or people in the third world who never owned a PC but now own a smartphone. They've grown up with a totally different sense of what a computer is for and what it can do. Sure, most will later be exposed to a PC and realize they can do more with it, but it'll always be a tool they reach for ONLY if they simply cannot make it work on a smartphone or tablet. Those of us who grew up with PCs might look at some of the things they do like we'd look at someone using a pipe wrench to hammer a nail, but they've gotten used to using a pipe wrench that way and not only do it far better than we ever could, they might even do better with it than they would if you handed them a hammer. You know, like when we watch a 15 year old type 100 wpm on a smartphone keyboard...
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              AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCWilco2018/11/07 04:56 PM
                AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCAndrei2018/11/08 01:20 AM
              AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCMaynard Handley2018/11/07 05:20 PM
              AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCnone2018/11/07 10:12 PM
                AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCnone2018/11/07 10:15 PM
          AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCBeastian2018/11/08 08:10 AM
            AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCMaynard Handley2018/11/08 08:22 AM
              AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCBeastian2018/11/08 08:32 AM
                AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCBeastian2018/11/08 08:36 AM
                  AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCAndrei2018/11/09 02:06 AM
                    AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCpassing rando2018/11/09 10:10 AM
              AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCGian-Carlo Pascutto2018/11/08 08:58 AM
                AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCMaynard Handley2018/11/08 11:03 AM
                  AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCGian-Carlo Pascutto2018/11/08 12:29 PM
                    AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCMaynard Handley2018/11/08 03:39 PM
                      AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCWilco2018/11/08 04:12 PM
            AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCDoug S2018/11/08 10:25 AM
              AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCMaynard Handley2018/11/08 11:18 AM
                AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCDoug S2018/11/08 03:00 PM
                  AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCMaynard Handley2018/11/08 03:48 PM
                    AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCDoug S2018/11/09 12:15 PM
                      AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCMaynard Handley2018/11/09 08:23 PM
                        AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCDoug S2018/11/10 03:43 AM
                          AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCMaynard Handley2018/11/10 07:46 AM
                            AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCJukka Larja2018/11/10 08:41 AM
                              AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCMaynard Handley2018/11/10 09:25 AM
                                AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCJukka Larja2018/11/10 12:54 PM
                                  AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCMaynard Handley2018/11/10 02:17 PM
                                    AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCJukka Larja2018/11/11 12:24 AM
                          AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCBrett2018/11/10 01:24 PM
                        AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCJukka Larja2018/11/10 04:12 AM
                          AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCdmcq2018/11/10 06:21 AM
                          AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCMichael S2018/11/10 05:33 PM
                            AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCAnon2018/11/10 08:52 PM
                              AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCJukka Larja2018/11/10 11:56 PM
                  AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCDavid Hess2018/11/09 09:08 AM
              AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCBeastian2018/11/08 06:53 PM
                AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCMaynard Handley2018/11/09 05:12 AM
                  AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCdmcq2018/11/09 05:26 AM
                  AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCDoug S2018/11/09 12:06 PM
                AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCdmcq2018/11/09 05:15 AM
              AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCFoo_2018/11/09 01:16 PM
                AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCDoug S2018/11/09 01:36 PM
      AnandTech SPEC2006 scores for ARM SoCDavid Hess2018/11/09 06:27 AM
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