AMD IO die

By: Alberto (git.delete@this.git.it), January 14, 2019 2:00 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Maynard Handley (name99.delete@this.name99.org) on January 14, 2019 10:42 am wrote:
> juanrga (no.delete@this.juanrga.com) on January 14, 2019 3:04 am wrote:
> > anon³ (alt-0179.delete@this.test.example.test) on January 13, 2019 1:17 pm wrote:
> > > JS (null.delete@this.null.com) on January 12, 2019 1:05 am wrote:
> > > > > We could wait a little about power consumption.
> > > > > The node shift is unable to halve the power consumption
> > > > > on an high power cpu, moreover half the SKU is on 14nm.
> > > > > More likely AMD demoed on a very light development motherboard unable of overclock. My bet
> > > > > Intel was on a power hungry plataform thinked to allow more than 300W under overclocking.
> > > > >
> > > > > Better wait real products.
> > > > > For now is only smart marketing.
> > > >
> > > > Correct me if I'm wrong but the IO die on 14nm shouldn't be a significant limiting factor
> > > > for the chip. It's relative simplicity to the processor die should make it clock relatively
> > > > well, or at least parallel silicon could be added to make up for any deficit?
> > >
> > > IO die on GF/IBM 14nm is going to be just fine. IO structures scale abysmally with
> > > process (it's all about gate oxides and voltage rating), so once you've paid the
> > > costs to go off-die, it doesn't matter much what process the IO die is on.
> > >
> > > It's interesting that the IO die is claimed to be "14nm", though, not "12nm". Zen+
> > > is 12nm, so there's no reason the IO die wouldn't also be on 12nm. At least, that's
> > > if the target process was GF 14LP/12LP (which are almost the same process).
> >
> > GF 12nm is a marketing rebrand of 14nm+. It hit clocks aren't needed
> > for the IO die, so AMD is back to the original (and cheaper) 14nm.
> >
> > > That implies the target is actually GF/IBM's 14HP. And that lines up perfectly, since by all accounts
> > > 14HP is an excellent choice for IO-heavy designs. It also implies that there could be eDRAM on the IO
> > > die, but that seems unlikely given the target die size and yields. Perhaps they've managed some clever
> > > use of a small amount of eDRAM somewhere (it does seem the sort of thing that would be useful on an
> > > all-IO die), or perhaps they've got a custom eDRAM-less process variant to save a bit of cost.
> >
> > 14HP targets clocks aren't needed for the IO die, not to mention it is an
> > expensive node. If you are going to pay for 14HP, then you can use 7nm.
> >
> > And there is no eDRAM. As proven before, there is no enough space in the IO
> > die for a meaningful L4. Also Sandra database and codenames of engineering/qualification
> > samples prove there is only up to L3 from client to server.
>
> Can you point to this analysis ("As proven before, there is no enough space in the IO
> die for a meaningful L4")? Thanks.
> Not arguing, just want to see what the assumptions are going into it.

A 7nm Ryzen should be 130-140mm2 or so. This strange mix is a little more than 200mm2 only 10mm2 smaller than original 14nm Ryzen; so yes your question is really intersting, there is some unused silicon space. Or maybe no.....i don't know, sure from a manufacturing and packaging point of view new Ryzen is not a money saver at all for AMD. I can see operative margins shrinking.


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              eDRAM too expensiveAdrian2019/01/13 08:51 PM
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                eDRAM too expensiveRicardo B2019/01/14 11:06 AM
                  Zen PHY speedsJeff S.2019/01/14 11:40 AM
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                    Zen target process (was: eDRAM too expensive)hobold2019/01/14 02:42 PM
                      Zen target process (was: eDRAM too expensive)Adrian2019/01/14 09:13 PM
                        Zen target process (was: eDRAM too expensive)hobold2019/01/15 08:28 PM
                    eDRAM too expensiveRicardo B2019/01/15 03:40 AM
                    eDRAM too expensiveRicardo B2019/01/15 08:26 AM
              eDRAM too expensiveMaynard Handley2019/01/14 10:38 AM
                eDRAM too expensiveanon2019/01/14 01:00 PM
                  eDRAM too expensiveMaynard Handley2019/01/14 01:43 PM
                    eDRAM too expensiveDan Fay2019/01/14 02:16 PM
                      eDRAM too expensiveMaynard Handley2019/01/14 03:40 PM
                        eDRAM too expensiveDan Fay2019/01/14 04:58 PM
                    eDRAM too expensivesomeone2019/01/15 08:20 AM
                eDRAM too expensiveanon2019/01/14 03:34 PM
                  eDRAM too expensiveMaynard Handley2019/01/14 05:34 PM
                eDRAM too expensiveanon2019/01/15 01:06 AM
            AMD IO diejuanrga2019/01/14 03:04 AM
              AMD IO dieMaynard Handley2019/01/14 10:42 AM
                AMD IO dieAlberto2019/01/14 02:00 PM
                AMD IO diejuanrga2019/01/15 02:54 AM
                AMD IO die size & functionalityWes Felter2019/01/15 11:12 AM
                  AMD IO die size & functionalityjuanrga2019/01/15 11:43 AM
                  AMD IO die size & functionalityAlberto2019/01/15 12:57 PM
                    AMD CPU die size & functionalityWes Felter2019/01/15 04:35 PM
                      AMD CPU die size & functionalityanon2019/01/16 01:32 AM
                        AMD CPU die size & functionalityAlberto2019/01/16 05:40 AM
                      AMD CPU die size & functionalityJan Olšan2019/01/16 07:11 AM
                  AMD IO die size & functionalityMaynard Handley2019/01/16 09:17 AM
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