ARM announces Ares

By: Linus Torvalds (torvalds.delete@this.linux-foundation.org), February 21, 2019 3:27 pm
Room: Moderated Discussions
Michael S (already5chosen.delete@this.yahoo.com) on February 21, 2019 8:35 am wrote:
>
> A counter-argument is that internally N1==A76 so Snapdragon 855 is not
> far away from what you're asking for.

I do agree that the ARM laptops may make this all work out on the development side. Whether from the PC side ("WARM") or Apple cutting their laptops over.

It doesn't have to be the same core, just "close enough" and with good enough performance and resources to work as a development box.

Because it's just very frustrating to chase bugs that you can't reproduce locally. Particularly if they are in random infrastructure that you don't know (and perhaps not even "bugs" - just different behavior in basic libraries, perhaps just due to implementation-defined differences).

When everything works, switching from one architecture to another should be a walk in the park. It's just that people seem to unrealistically assume that things work, when in reality, most development effort - even if you have just a single platform - is exactly in that "oops, it didn't work as intended" situations.

Which is why I've been so adamant about asking for ARM developer boxes (not "development boards" - those are for hardware people).

That said, I still strongly suspect that any "hyperscaling" 64-128 core system will be very underwhelming. It may be just good enough on Specrate style "nothing shared" benchmarks, and yes, you have the traditional network processor loads etc, but I think people always underestimate how big of a jump it really is from "look, we know how to make 4 cores work" to "look, we can cram a lot of cores on a die" and then to actually having something that truly scales.

You simply need many many generations. And even then it's hard. So says a lot of mostly dead companies. Right now, ARM doesn't have even a single generation of server parts out, and they are pushing the hyperscaling story? Does that really make sense to anybody?

(Yes, yes, I realize it makes tons of sense to all those people who already believe in the "sea or cores" fairytale despite not having any evidence of that ever working. But there's no arguing with delusion)

Linus
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TopicPosted ByDate
ARM announces Aresnobody in particular2019/02/20 07:35 AM
  ARM announces AresAdrian2019/02/20 07:39 AM
    ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 09:03 AM
      ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/20 09:41 AM
        ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 11:49 AM
          ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/20 12:21 PM
            ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 01:01 PM
              ARM announces AresWilco2019/02/20 01:31 PM
                ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 02:16 PM
                  ARM announces AresWilco2019/02/20 02:49 PM
                    ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 03:09 PM
                      ARM announces AresWilco2019/02/20 03:45 PM
                        ARM announces Aresnobody in particular2019/02/20 03:55 PM
                          ARM announces AresDan Fay2019/02/20 04:44 PM
                            ARM announces AresWilco2019/02/20 06:06 PM
                              ARM announces AresDan Fay2019/02/21 07:27 AM
                        ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 04:49 PM
                          ARM announces AresWilco2019/02/20 05:40 PM
                            ARM announces AresCharles2019/02/21 01:16 AM
                              ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 01:26 AM
                        ARM announces Aresanon2019/02/20 07:55 PM
                          ARM announces AresJS2019/02/20 11:59 PM
                            *has not hasn't (NT)JS2019/02/21 12:01 AM
                            ARM announces AresSalvatore De Dominicis2019/02/21 06:05 AM
                        Definitions of RISCBrendan2019/02/21 09:07 AM
                          Definitions of RISCMichael S2019/02/21 09:16 AM
                          PDP-8 Not Usually Considered RISCMark Roulo2019/02/21 01:10 PM
                            PDP-8 Not Usually Considered RISCrwessel2019/02/21 06:13 PM
                          Definitions of RISCAdrian2019/02/21 01:42 PM
                            Definitions of RISC (nod to John Mashey and comp.arch)wumpus2019/02/21 05:29 PM
                              Definitions of RISC (nod to John Mashey and comp.arch)none2019/02/21 11:32 PM
                                Definitions of RISC (nod to John Mashey and comp.arch)Michael S2019/02/22 03:28 AM
                                  Definitions of RISC (nod to John Mashey and comp.arch)none2019/02/22 07:01 AM
  ARM announces Areslockederboss2019/02/20 08:56 AM
    stability? (NT)anonymous22019/02/20 09:01 AM
    ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 09:05 AM
    ARM announces AresGroo2019/02/20 09:11 AM
    ARM announces AresAndrei Frumusanu2019/02/20 10:49 AM
  ARM announces AresLinus Torvalds2019/02/20 09:36 AM
    ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/20 09:54 AM
    ARM announces AresGeoff Langdale2019/02/20 02:07 PM
      ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 02:32 PM
      ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/20 11:03 PM
        That last line should have been removed :-) (NT)none2019/02/20 11:04 PM
        ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 12:47 AM
          ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/21 02:59 AM
            ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 03:45 AM
            ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/21 04:18 AM
              ARM announces AresSimon Farnsworth2019/02/22 08:43 AM
    ARM announces Aresanon2019/02/20 08:27 PM
      ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 12:53 AM
        ARM announces AresLinus Torvalds2019/02/21 08:03 AM
          ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 08:35 AM
            ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 08:51 AM
            ARM announces AresFoo_2019/02/21 01:40 PM
            ARM announces Aresaaron spink2019/02/21 02:56 PM
            ARM announces AresLinus Torvalds2019/02/21 03:27 PM
              ARM announces AresStoffels2019/02/21 11:21 PM
                ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/22 03:15 AM
                  ARM announces AresSimon Farnsworth2019/02/22 08:41 AM
                    ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/22 09:30 AM
                    In other words: nobody will ever get fired for choosing x86 (NT)Gabriele Svelto2019/02/24 12:32 PM
                      In other words: nobody will ever get fired for choosing x86Simon Farnsworth2019/02/25 03:53 AM
              ARM announces AresFoo_2019/02/22 01:52 AM
              ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/24 12:31 PM
                ARM announces AresMaynard Handley2019/02/25 02:57 AM
                  ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/25 03:21 AM
                    ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/25 03:58 AM
                      ARM announces Aresnobody in particular2019/02/25 04:21 AM
                        ARM announces AresAdrian2019/02/26 07:02 AM
                    ARM announces AresMaynard Handley2019/02/25 11:32 PM
                      ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/26 11:14 AM
                      ARM announces AresDavid Hess2019/03/19 04:34 PM
                    ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/26 12:34 AM
                      ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/26 11:16 AM
                        ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/26 11:19 PM
              ARM announces Aresend of an era2019/02/24 02:18 PM
                Word salad bot strikes again (NT)nanon2019/02/24 11:26 PM
                ARM announces Areshobel2019/02/25 01:10 AM
                  ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/25 01:52 AM
                    ARM announces Areshobel2019/02/25 09:48 AM
                      ARM announces AresAndrew Clough2019/02/25 01:07 PM
                      ARM announces AresMaynard Handley2019/02/25 11:38 PM
                    ARM announces AresJohn Yates2019/02/26 02:43 PM
              ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/27 05:55 AM
              ARM announces AresDavid Hess2019/03/19 04:22 PM
            ARM announces AresDavid Hess2019/03/19 03:54 PM
              ARMY announces Aresdmcq2019/03/20 02:12 AM
                ARMY announces AresDavid Hess2019/03/20 04:47 AM
                  ARMY announces Aresdmcq2019/03/20 05:05 AM
          ARM announces AresGroo2019/02/21 09:23 AM
            ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 09:29 AM
              ARM announces AresDavid Hess2019/03/19 04:44 PM
            ARM announces Aresjuanrga2019/02/21 10:52 AM
            ARM announces Aresanon2019/02/21 07:19 PM
              ARM announces Areshobel2019/02/22 02:40 AM
          software ecosystemsRichardC2019/02/21 03:31 PM
            software ecosystemsFoo_2019/02/22 02:15 AM
          ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/21 04:31 PM
            + on hyperscalingdmcq2019/02/22 07:23 AM
              + on hyperscalingMaynard Handley2019/02/22 07:38 AM
                + on hyperscalingjuanrga2019/02/22 10:57 AM
            + on hyperscalingdmcq2019/02/22 07:23 AM
              sorry duplicatedmcq2019/02/22 07:26 AM
          ARM announces Aresanon2019/02/21 07:34 PM
            ARM announces AresBrett2019/02/21 09:20 PM
          ARM announces AresA. Wilcox2019/02/22 02:52 PM
  ARM announces AresDoug S2019/02/20 02:30 PM
    ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 03:14 PM
      ARM announces AresDoug S2019/02/21 07:40 AM
        ARM announces Aresaaron spink2019/02/21 03:05 PM
        ARM announces AresMaynard Handley2019/02/22 07:48 AM
  ARM announces Aresjuanrga2019/02/21 01:28 AM
    ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 02:25 AM
      ARM announces Aresjuanrga2019/02/22 03:09 AM
      ARM announces AresMaynard Handley2019/02/22 07:51 AM
        ARM announces AresDavid Soul2019/02/22 10:47 AM
          ARM announces Aresjuanrga2019/02/22 11:23 AM
            Chicken or egg, both.Brett2019/02/22 01:21 PM
              Chicken or egg, both.David Soul2019/02/22 05:05 PM
                Chicken or egg, both.Brett2019/02/22 08:55 PM
                  ARM salesjuanrga2019/02/23 02:55 AM
                    ARM salesaaron spink2019/02/23 07:47 AM
                Chicken or egg, both.Ronald Maas2019/02/23 05:33 PM
                  Chicken or egg, both.Magagop2019/02/24 10:18 PM
                    why not? (NT)Michael S2019/02/25 01:03 AM
                      why not?Not the parent2019/02/25 09:36 AM
                        why not?Michael S2019/02/25 09:43 AM
                          why not?dmcq2019/02/25 10:35 AM
                            why not?Michael S2019/02/25 11:03 AM
                              why not?dmcq2019/02/25 11:29 AM
                              why not?Not the parent2019/02/26 09:08 AM
                                why not?Doug S2019/02/26 11:05 AM
                                  why not?Not the parent2019/02/27 03:51 AM
                                    why not?Doug S2019/02/27 11:15 AM
                                      why not?Not the parent2019/02/28 12:43 AM
                                why not?anon2019/02/26 10:22 PM
                                  why not?Not the parent2019/02/27 03:59 AM
                                    why not?anon2019/02/27 05:42 AM
                                      why not?Magagop2019/02/27 02:31 PM
                                        why not?anon2019/02/27 04:02 PM
                                          why not?dmcq2019/02/27 04:25 PM
                                            why not?anon2019/02/27 04:56 PM
                                              why not?dmcq2019/02/27 05:19 PM
                                                why not?anon2019/02/27 05:46 PM
                                                  why not?Wilco2019/02/28 04:49 AM
                                                    why not?Jukka Larja2019/02/28 06:02 AM
                                                      why not?Michael S2019/02/28 07:32 AM
                                                      why not?Wilco2019/02/28 08:40 AM
                                                      why not?Doug S2019/02/28 09:13 AM
                                                        why not?Foo_2019/03/01 06:35 AM
                                                          why not?Doug S2019/03/01 10:05 AM
                                                            why not?anon2019/03/01 01:32 PM
                                                              why not?dmcq2019/03/01 02:13 PM
                                                                why not?anon2019/03/01 03:13 PM
                                                                  why not?dmcq2019/03/02 02:56 AM
                                                                    why not?anon2019/03/02 09:09 AM
                                                                      why not?dmcq2019/03/02 09:41 AM
                                                                        why not?anon2019/03/02 11:19 AM
                                                                          why not?dmcq2019/03/03 02:48 AM
                                                                      why not?Doug S2019/03/02 03:53 PM
                                                                        why not?Michael S2019/03/02 04:06 PM
                                                                          why not?Doug S2019/03/02 11:54 PM
                                                                            why not?Michael S2019/03/03 01:58 AM
                                                                              why not?anon2019/03/03 04:35 AM
                                                                                why not?dmcq2019/03/03 05:33 AM
                                                                                  I considired dry humor a Brittish specialty. It seems, I was wrong about it. (NT)Michael S2019/03/03 05:39 AM
                                                                                  why not?anon2019/03/03 09:13 AM
                                                                                    why not?Michael S2019/03/03 11:41 AM
                                                                                      why not?dmcq2019/03/03 12:21 PM
                                                                                        why not?anon2019/03/03 03:15 PM
                                                    why not?anon2019/02/28 07:38 PM
                                              why not?Not the parent2019/02/28 12:48 AM
                                                strawman (NT)anon2019/02/28 07:31 PM
                            why not?Michael S2019/02/27 02:53 AM
                              why not?Not the parent2019/02/27 04:26 AM
                                why not?Michael S2019/02/27 04:42 AM
                              why not?dmcq2019/02/27 04:49 AM
                                why not?Michael S2019/02/27 05:21 AM
                                  why not?dmcq2019/02/27 06:15 AM
                                Selling at multiple layersPaul A. Clayton2019/02/27 10:25 AM
                                  Selling at multiple layersDoug S2019/02/27 11:45 AM
                                    Selling at multiple layersPaul A. Clayton2019/02/27 01:32 PM
                                      Selling at multiple layersDoug S2019/02/27 03:04 PM
                                        Paul A. Clayton2019/02/27 06:06 PM
                                          Arm reference board?Simon Farnsworth2019/02/28 11:34 AM
                                why not?Doug S2019/02/27 11:46 AM
                      why not? (NT)la mama de murgay2019/02/25 09:22 PM
                    Chicken or egg, both.Ronald Maas2019/02/25 12:23 PM
            ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/24 02:07 PM
              ARM announces Aresjuanrga2019/03/02 04:40 AM
                ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/03/02 07:08 AM
                  ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/03/02 09:10 AM
          ARM announces Areshobel2019/02/22 03:33 PM
            ARM announces AresDavid Soul2019/02/22 05:20 PM
              TrollDoug S2019/02/23 12:37 AM
                TrollDavid Soul2019/02/23 07:59 AM
              ARM announces AresEnnis2019/02/23 01:18 AM
                ARM announces AresFoo_2019/02/23 01:38 AM
                  ARM announces Aresanon2019/02/23 02:46 AM
                ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/23 04:41 AM
  ARM announces Aresnobody in particular2019/02/26 02:58 AM
    expensiveanonymous22019/02/26 11:46 PM
    ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/27 06:19 AM
      ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/27 06:21 AM
        ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/27 06:57 AM
        ARM announces AresJukka Larja2019/02/27 07:11 AM
          ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/27 07:16 AM
            ARM announces AresDoug S2019/02/27 11:49 AM
              ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/27 12:43 PM
                ARM announces AresDoug S2019/02/27 03:06 PM
                  ARM announces AresGian-Carlo Pascutto2019/02/28 04:00 AM
                ARM announces AresGian-Carlo Pascutto2019/02/28 04:02 AM
                  ARM announces AresMichael S2019/03/01 02:47 AM
                    death by a thousand cutsMichael S2019/03/01 06:27 AM
                      death by a thousand cutsFoo_2019/03/01 06:37 AM
                        death by a thousand cutsdmcq2019/03/01 11:10 AM
              ARM announces AresJukka Larja2019/02/28 05:31 AM
                ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/28 08:17 AM
                  ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/28 02:02 PM
                    ARM announces Aresaaron spink2019/03/01 12:19 AM
                ARM announces AresAndrew Clough2019/02/28 10:32 AM
                  ARM announces AresAndrew Clough2019/02/28 10:33 AM
                  ARM announces AresFoo_2019/03/01 12:55 AM
                  ARM announces AresJukka Larja2019/03/01 04:40 AM
          ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/27 07:45 AM
            ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/27 08:17 AM
              ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/27 08:21 AM
                ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/27 03:03 PM
            ARM announces AresJukka Larja2019/02/28 05:03 AM
      ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/27 10:49 PM
        ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/28 03:26 AM
          ARM announces AresPeter E. Fry2019/02/28 06:31 PM
            ARM announces AresAdrian2019/02/28 09:09 PM
            ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/03/01 11:56 PM
              ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/03/02 09:05 AM
                ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/03/02 01:31 PM
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