software ecosystems

By: Foo_ (foo.delete@this.nomail.com), February 22, 2019 2:15 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
RichardC (richard.cownie.delete@this.pobox.com) on February 21, 2019 3:31 pm wrote:
>
> I think this is much less true than it was in the 1990s.
>
> - Docker/containers give better isolation from system and other apps

But the container will run under the same ISA anyway.

> - A lot more stuff being implemented on virtual machines - Java, Python,
> Javascript. Admittedly, some of those VMs will be not so great on ARM.

And those VMs often call into native libraries. Your application code may be more or less abstracted away from the target architecture, but your dependencies won't be.

> - Single-thread ARM performance is getting fast enough for a decent
> development machine, so presumably that will happen.

Unfortunately, it needs serious system builder interest. Just because there are good CPUs around doesn't mean they're going to build decent development boxes around them.

(note a development box generally serves as a general-purpose computer as well, so it needs enough I/O support, including for audio and video...)

> - One counterpoint to the develop-on-same-platform argument is that the most
> common development platforms these days seem to be Windows laptops and
> MacBook Pro's - but the cloud environment is predominantly Linux.

I'm certainly biased, but most developers I know develop on Linux (usually some variant of Debian, Ubuntu or Fedora). A small fraction develop on macOS. In some areas, it can actually be non-trivial to find expert Windows developers to handle porting and debugging tasks.
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ARM announces Aresnobody in particular2019/02/20 07:35 AM
  ARM announces AresAdrian2019/02/20 07:39 AM
    ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 09:03 AM
      ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/20 09:41 AM
        ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 11:49 AM
          ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/20 12:21 PM
            ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 01:01 PM
              ARM announces AresWilco2019/02/20 01:31 PM
                ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 02:16 PM
                  ARM announces AresWilco2019/02/20 02:49 PM
                    ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 03:09 PM
                      ARM announces AresWilco2019/02/20 03:45 PM
                        ARM announces Aresnobody in particular2019/02/20 03:55 PM
                          ARM announces AresDan Fay2019/02/20 04:44 PM
                            ARM announces AresWilco2019/02/20 06:06 PM
                              ARM announces AresDan Fay2019/02/21 07:27 AM
                        ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 04:49 PM
                          ARM announces AresWilco2019/02/20 05:40 PM
                            ARM announces AresCharles2019/02/21 01:16 AM
                              ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 01:26 AM
                        ARM announces Aresanon2019/02/20 07:55 PM
                          ARM announces AresJS2019/02/20 11:59 PM
                            *has not hasn't (NT)JS2019/02/21 12:01 AM
                            ARM announces AresSalvatore De Dominicis2019/02/21 06:05 AM
                        Definitions of RISCBrendan2019/02/21 09:07 AM
                          Definitions of RISCMichael S2019/02/21 09:16 AM
                          PDP-8 Not Usually Considered RISCMark Roulo2019/02/21 01:10 PM
                            PDP-8 Not Usually Considered RISCrwessel2019/02/21 06:13 PM
                          Definitions of RISCAdrian2019/02/21 01:42 PM
                            Definitions of RISC (nod to John Mashey and comp.arch)wumpus2019/02/21 05:29 PM
                              Definitions of RISC (nod to John Mashey and comp.arch)none2019/02/21 11:32 PM
                                Definitions of RISC (nod to John Mashey and comp.arch)Michael S2019/02/22 03:28 AM
                                  Definitions of RISC (nod to John Mashey and comp.arch)none2019/02/22 07:01 AM
  ARM announces Areslockederboss2019/02/20 08:56 AM
    stability? (NT)anonymous22019/02/20 09:01 AM
    ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 09:05 AM
    ARM announces AresGroo2019/02/20 09:11 AM
    ARM announces AresAndrei Frumusanu2019/02/20 10:49 AM
  ARM announces AresLinus Torvalds2019/02/20 09:36 AM
    ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/20 09:54 AM
    ARM announces AresGeoff Langdale2019/02/20 02:07 PM
      ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 02:32 PM
      ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/20 11:03 PM
        That last line should have been removed :-) (NT)none2019/02/20 11:04 PM
        ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 12:47 AM
          ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/21 02:59 AM
            ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 03:45 AM
            ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/21 04:18 AM
              ARM announces AresSimon Farnsworth2019/02/22 08:43 AM
    ARM announces Aresanon2019/02/20 08:27 PM
      ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 12:53 AM
        ARM announces AresLinus Torvalds2019/02/21 08:03 AM
          ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 08:35 AM
            ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 08:51 AM
            ARM announces AresFoo_2019/02/21 01:40 PM
            ARM announces Aresaaron spink2019/02/21 02:56 PM
            ARM announces AresLinus Torvalds2019/02/21 03:27 PM
              ARM announces AresStoffels2019/02/21 11:21 PM
                ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/22 03:15 AM
                  ARM announces AresSimon Farnsworth2019/02/22 08:41 AM
                    ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/22 09:30 AM
                    In other words: nobody will ever get fired for choosing x86 (NT)Gabriele Svelto2019/02/24 12:32 PM
                      In other words: nobody will ever get fired for choosing x86Simon Farnsworth2019/02/25 03:53 AM
              ARM announces AresFoo_2019/02/22 01:52 AM
              ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/24 12:31 PM
                ARM announces AresMaynard Handley2019/02/25 02:57 AM
                  ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/25 03:21 AM
                    ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/25 03:58 AM
                      ARM announces Aresnobody in particular2019/02/25 04:21 AM
                        ARM announces AresAdrian2019/02/26 07:02 AM
                    ARM announces AresMaynard Handley2019/02/25 11:32 PM
                      ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/26 11:14 AM
                      ARM announces AresDavid Hess2019/03/19 04:34 PM
                    ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/26 12:34 AM
                      ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/26 11:16 AM
                        ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/26 11:19 PM
              ARM announces Aresend of an era2019/02/24 02:18 PM
                Word salad bot strikes again (NT)nanon2019/02/24 11:26 PM
                ARM announces Areshobel2019/02/25 01:10 AM
                  ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/25 01:52 AM
                    ARM announces Areshobel2019/02/25 09:48 AM
                      ARM announces AresAndrew Clough2019/02/25 01:07 PM
                      ARM announces AresMaynard Handley2019/02/25 11:38 PM
                    ARM announces AresJohn Yates2019/02/26 02:43 PM
              ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/27 05:55 AM
              ARM announces AresDavid Hess2019/03/19 04:22 PM
            ARM announces AresDavid Hess2019/03/19 03:54 PM
              ARMY announces Aresdmcq2019/03/20 02:12 AM
                ARMY announces AresDavid Hess2019/03/20 04:47 AM
                  ARMY announces Aresdmcq2019/03/20 05:05 AM
          ARM announces AresGroo2019/02/21 09:23 AM
            ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 09:29 AM
              ARM announces AresDavid Hess2019/03/19 04:44 PM
            ARM announces Aresjuanrga2019/02/21 10:52 AM
            ARM announces Aresanon2019/02/21 07:19 PM
              ARM announces Areshobel2019/02/22 02:40 AM
          software ecosystemsRichardC2019/02/21 03:31 PM
            software ecosystemsFoo_2019/02/22 02:15 AM
          ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/21 04:31 PM
            + on hyperscalingdmcq2019/02/22 07:23 AM
              + on hyperscalingMaynard Handley2019/02/22 07:38 AM
                + on hyperscalingjuanrga2019/02/22 10:57 AM
            + on hyperscalingdmcq2019/02/22 07:23 AM
              sorry duplicatedmcq2019/02/22 07:26 AM
          ARM announces Aresanon2019/02/21 07:34 PM
            ARM announces AresBrett2019/02/21 09:20 PM
          ARM announces AresA. Wilcox2019/02/22 02:52 PM
  ARM announces AresDoug S2019/02/20 02:30 PM
    ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 03:14 PM
      ARM announces AresDoug S2019/02/21 07:40 AM
        ARM announces Aresaaron spink2019/02/21 03:05 PM
        ARM announces AresMaynard Handley2019/02/22 07:48 AM
  ARM announces Aresjuanrga2019/02/21 01:28 AM
    ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 02:25 AM
      ARM announces Aresjuanrga2019/02/22 03:09 AM
      ARM announces AresMaynard Handley2019/02/22 07:51 AM
        ARM announces AresDavid Soul2019/02/22 10:47 AM
          ARM announces Aresjuanrga2019/02/22 11:23 AM
            Chicken or egg, both.Brett2019/02/22 01:21 PM
              Chicken or egg, both.David Soul2019/02/22 05:05 PM
                Chicken or egg, both.Brett2019/02/22 08:55 PM
                  ARM salesjuanrga2019/02/23 02:55 AM
                    ARM salesaaron spink2019/02/23 07:47 AM
                Chicken or egg, both.Ronald Maas2019/02/23 05:33 PM
                  Chicken or egg, both.Magagop2019/02/24 10:18 PM
                    why not? (NT)Michael S2019/02/25 01:03 AM
                      why not?Not the parent2019/02/25 09:36 AM
                        why not?Michael S2019/02/25 09:43 AM
                          why not?dmcq2019/02/25 10:35 AM
                            why not?Michael S2019/02/25 11:03 AM
                              why not?dmcq2019/02/25 11:29 AM
                              why not?Not the parent2019/02/26 09:08 AM
                                why not?Doug S2019/02/26 11:05 AM
                                  why not?Not the parent2019/02/27 03:51 AM
                                    why not?Doug S2019/02/27 11:15 AM
                                      why not?Not the parent2019/02/28 12:43 AM
                                why not?anon2019/02/26 10:22 PM
                                  why not?Not the parent2019/02/27 03:59 AM
                                    why not?anon2019/02/27 05:42 AM
                                      why not?Magagop2019/02/27 02:31 PM
                                        why not?anon2019/02/27 04:02 PM
                                          why not?dmcq2019/02/27 04:25 PM
                                            why not?anon2019/02/27 04:56 PM
                                              why not?dmcq2019/02/27 05:19 PM
                                                why not?anon2019/02/27 05:46 PM
                                                  why not?Wilco2019/02/28 04:49 AM
                                                    why not?Jukka Larja2019/02/28 06:02 AM
                                                      why not?Michael S2019/02/28 07:32 AM
                                                      why not?Wilco2019/02/28 08:40 AM
                                                      why not?Doug S2019/02/28 09:13 AM
                                                        why not?Foo_2019/03/01 06:35 AM
                                                          why not?Doug S2019/03/01 10:05 AM
                                                            why not?anon2019/03/01 01:32 PM
                                                              why not?dmcq2019/03/01 02:13 PM
                                                                why not?anon2019/03/01 03:13 PM
                                                                  why not?dmcq2019/03/02 02:56 AM
                                                                    why not?anon2019/03/02 09:09 AM
                                                                      why not?dmcq2019/03/02 09:41 AM
                                                                        why not?anon2019/03/02 11:19 AM
                                                                          why not?dmcq2019/03/03 02:48 AM
                                                                      why not?Doug S2019/03/02 03:53 PM
                                                                        why not?Michael S2019/03/02 04:06 PM
                                                                          why not?Doug S2019/03/02 11:54 PM
                                                                            why not?Michael S2019/03/03 01:58 AM
                                                                              why not?anon2019/03/03 04:35 AM
                                                                                why not?dmcq2019/03/03 05:33 AM
                                                                                  I considired dry humor a Brittish specialty. It seems, I was wrong about it. (NT)Michael S2019/03/03 05:39 AM
                                                                                  why not?anon2019/03/03 09:13 AM
                                                                                    why not?Michael S2019/03/03 11:41 AM
                                                                                      why not?dmcq2019/03/03 12:21 PM
                                                                                        why not?anon2019/03/03 03:15 PM
                                                    why not?anon2019/02/28 07:38 PM
                                              why not?Not the parent2019/02/28 12:48 AM
                                                strawman (NT)anon2019/02/28 07:31 PM
                            why not?Michael S2019/02/27 02:53 AM
                              why not?Not the parent2019/02/27 04:26 AM
                                why not?Michael S2019/02/27 04:42 AM
                              why not?dmcq2019/02/27 04:49 AM
                                why not?Michael S2019/02/27 05:21 AM
                                  why not?dmcq2019/02/27 06:15 AM
                                Selling at multiple layersPaul A. Clayton2019/02/27 10:25 AM
                                  Selling at multiple layersDoug S2019/02/27 11:45 AM
                                    Selling at multiple layersPaul A. Clayton2019/02/27 01:32 PM
                                      Selling at multiple layersDoug S2019/02/27 03:04 PM
                                        Paul A. Clayton2019/02/27 06:06 PM
                                          Arm reference board?Simon Farnsworth2019/02/28 11:34 AM
                                why not?Doug S2019/02/27 11:46 AM
                      why not? (NT)la mama de murgay2019/02/25 09:22 PM
                    Chicken or egg, both.Ronald Maas2019/02/25 12:23 PM
            ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/24 02:07 PM
              ARM announces Aresjuanrga2019/03/02 04:40 AM
                ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/03/02 07:08 AM
                  ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/03/02 09:10 AM
          ARM announces Areshobel2019/02/22 03:33 PM
            ARM announces AresDavid Soul2019/02/22 05:20 PM
              TrollDoug S2019/02/23 12:37 AM
                TrollDavid Soul2019/02/23 07:59 AM
              ARM announces AresEnnis2019/02/23 01:18 AM
                ARM announces AresFoo_2019/02/23 01:38 AM
                  ARM announces Aresanon2019/02/23 02:46 AM
                ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/23 04:41 AM
  ARM announces Aresnobody in particular2019/02/26 02:58 AM
    expensiveanonymous22019/02/26 11:46 PM
    ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/27 06:19 AM
      ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/27 06:21 AM
        ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/27 06:57 AM
        ARM announces AresJukka Larja2019/02/27 07:11 AM
          ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/27 07:16 AM
            ARM announces AresDoug S2019/02/27 11:49 AM
              ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/27 12:43 PM
                ARM announces AresDoug S2019/02/27 03:06 PM
                  ARM announces AresGian-Carlo Pascutto2019/02/28 04:00 AM
                ARM announces AresGian-Carlo Pascutto2019/02/28 04:02 AM
                  ARM announces AresMichael S2019/03/01 02:47 AM
                    death by a thousand cutsMichael S2019/03/01 06:27 AM
                      death by a thousand cutsFoo_2019/03/01 06:37 AM
                        death by a thousand cutsdmcq2019/03/01 11:10 AM
              ARM announces AresJukka Larja2019/02/28 05:31 AM
                ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/28 08:17 AM
                  ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/28 02:02 PM
                    ARM announces Aresaaron spink2019/03/01 12:19 AM
                ARM announces AresAndrew Clough2019/02/28 10:32 AM
                  ARM announces AresAndrew Clough2019/02/28 10:33 AM
                  ARM announces AresFoo_2019/03/01 12:55 AM
                  ARM announces AresJukka Larja2019/03/01 04:40 AM
          ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/27 07:45 AM
            ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/27 08:17 AM
              ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/27 08:21 AM
                ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/27 03:03 PM
            ARM announces AresJukka Larja2019/02/28 05:03 AM
      ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/27 10:49 PM
        ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/28 03:26 AM
          ARM announces AresPeter E. Fry2019/02/28 06:31 PM
            ARM announces AresAdrian2019/02/28 09:09 PM
            ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/03/01 11:56 PM
              ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/03/02 09:05 AM
                ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/03/02 01:31 PM
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