By: Michael S (already5chosen.delete@this.yahoo.com), February 22, 2019 4:28 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
none (none.delete@this.none.com) on February 21, 2019 11:32 pm wrote:
> wumpus (lost.delete@this.in.a.cave) on February 21, 2019 5:29 pm wrote:
> > Adrian (a.delete@this.acm.org) on February 21, 2019 1:42 pm wrote:
> > > Brendan (btrotter.delete@this.gmail.com) on February 21, 2019 9:07 am wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My definition of RISC is that there's a reduced number of instructions (not a buttload
> > John Mashey had a long-winded explanation that he regularly posted on comp.arch, here's
> > a link to one from 1995: https://www.yarchive.net/comp/risc_definition.html
>
> So many memories :-)
>
> > From other posts, I think addressing modes was the most critical,
> > but ARM breaks the RISC rules in a few other places.
>
> AArch64 has pre/post increment. The rest is pretty basic (col 1-7), though it can be
> argued that anything that uses 2 registers for addressing mode puts pressure on
> micro-architecture design.
>
> > 3a: Thumb allows two different sizes of instruction length
> > 3b: the main one (for thumb) is 16bit
>
> AArch64 has a single instruction length.
>
> > 6a: they have less than 32 integer registers
>
> AArch64 has 32 integer registers.
>
> > 6b: architectural definition of floating point (and thus number
> > of fp registers) is often implementation specific...
>
> AArch64 has 32 FP registers.
>
> > I'm not familiar enough with ARM to know the rest off the top of my head, but further
> > down the post ARM's addressing modes are in a chart and they appear to fall in the no-man's-land
> > between RISC and CISC (ARM doesn't have indirect addressing, but does require some complicated
> > addressing that shouldn't require an additional memory access).
>
> AArch64 is "more RISCy" than 32-bit ARM.
>
> On the other hand you forgot that ARM violates 5a: it supports unaligned accesses. But
> that's a very needed feature IMHO.
>
> > I will admit that this list doesn't appear to check for special purpose registers, something of a CISC
> > hallmark and shunned by RISC, and feels related to the complaints against this new ARM architecture.
>
> Yes on the system side ARM has become quite complex.
>
This subthread started with discussion of new additions to ARMv8-M. aarch64 is sort of offtopic, as weired as it sounds with header mentioning Ares.
> wumpus (lost.delete@this.in.a.cave) on February 21, 2019 5:29 pm wrote:
> > Adrian (a.delete@this.acm.org) on February 21, 2019 1:42 pm wrote:
> > > Brendan (btrotter.delete@this.gmail.com) on February 21, 2019 9:07 am wrote:
> > > >
> > > > My definition of RISC is that there's a reduced number of instructions (not a buttload
> > John Mashey had a long-winded explanation that he regularly posted on comp.arch, here's
> > a link to one from 1995: https://www.yarchive.net/comp/risc_definition.html
>
> So many memories :-)
>
> > From other posts, I think addressing modes was the most critical,
> > but ARM breaks the RISC rules in a few other places.
>
> AArch64 has pre/post increment. The rest is pretty basic (col 1-7), though it can be
> argued that anything that uses 2 registers for addressing mode puts pressure on
> micro-architecture design.
>
> > 3a: Thumb allows two different sizes of instruction length
> > 3b: the main one (for thumb) is 16bit
>
> AArch64 has a single instruction length.
>
> > 6a: they have less than 32 integer registers
>
> AArch64 has 32 integer registers.
>
> > 6b: architectural definition of floating point (and thus number
> > of fp registers) is often implementation specific...
>
> AArch64 has 32 FP registers.
>
> > I'm not familiar enough with ARM to know the rest off the top of my head, but further
> > down the post ARM's addressing modes are in a chart and they appear to fall in the no-man's-land
> > between RISC and CISC (ARM doesn't have indirect addressing, but does require some complicated
> > addressing that shouldn't require an additional memory access).
>
> AArch64 is "more RISCy" than 32-bit ARM.
>
> On the other hand you forgot that ARM violates 5a: it supports unaligned accesses. But
> that's a very needed feature IMHO.
>
> > I will admit that this list doesn't appear to check for special purpose registers, something of a CISC
> > hallmark and shunned by RISC, and feels related to the complaints against this new ARM architecture.
>
> Yes on the system side ARM has become quite complex.
>
This subthread started with discussion of new additions to ARMv8-M. aarch64 is sort of offtopic, as weired as it sounds with header mentioning Ares.
Topic | Posted By | Date |
---|---|---|
ARM announces Ares | nobody in particular | 2019/02/20 08:35 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Adrian | 2019/02/20 08:39 AM |
ARM announces Ares | dmcq | 2019/02/20 10:03 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Michael S | 2019/02/20 10:41 AM |
ARM announces Ares | dmcq | 2019/02/20 12:49 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Michael S | 2019/02/20 01:21 PM |
ARM announces Ares | dmcq | 2019/02/20 02:01 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Wilco | 2019/02/20 02:31 PM |
ARM announces Ares | dmcq | 2019/02/20 03:16 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Wilco | 2019/02/20 03:49 PM |
ARM announces Ares | dmcq | 2019/02/20 04:09 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Wilco | 2019/02/20 04:45 PM |
ARM announces Ares | nobody in particular | 2019/02/20 04:55 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Dan Fay | 2019/02/20 05:44 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Wilco | 2019/02/20 07:06 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Dan Fay | 2019/02/21 08:27 AM |
ARM announces Ares | dmcq | 2019/02/20 05:49 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Wilco | 2019/02/20 06:40 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Charles | 2019/02/21 02:16 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Michael S | 2019/02/21 02:26 AM |
ARM announces Ares | anon | 2019/02/20 08:55 PM |
ARM announces Ares | JS | 2019/02/21 12:59 AM |
*has not hasn't (NT) | JS | 2019/02/21 01:01 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Salvatore De Dominicis | 2019/02/21 07:05 AM |
Definitions of RISC | Brendan | 2019/02/21 10:07 AM |
Definitions of RISC | Michael S | 2019/02/21 10:16 AM |
PDP-8 Not Usually Considered RISC | Mark Roulo | 2019/02/21 02:10 PM |
PDP-8 Not Usually Considered RISC | rwessel | 2019/02/21 07:13 PM |
Definitions of RISC | Adrian | 2019/02/21 02:42 PM |
Definitions of RISC (nod to John Mashey and comp.arch) | wumpus | 2019/02/21 06:29 PM |
Definitions of RISC (nod to John Mashey and comp.arch) | none | 2019/02/22 12:32 AM |
Definitions of RISC (nod to John Mashey and comp.arch) | Michael S | 2019/02/22 04:28 AM |
Definitions of RISC (nod to John Mashey and comp.arch) | none | 2019/02/22 08:01 AM |
ARM announces Ares | lockederboss | 2019/02/20 09:56 AM |
stability? (NT) | anonymous2 | 2019/02/20 10:01 AM |
ARM announces Ares | dmcq | 2019/02/20 10:05 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Groo | 2019/02/20 10:11 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Andrei Frumusanu | 2019/02/20 11:49 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Linus Torvalds | 2019/02/20 10:36 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Michael S | 2019/02/20 10:54 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Geoff Langdale | 2019/02/20 03:07 PM |
ARM announces Ares | dmcq | 2019/02/20 03:32 PM |
ARM announces Ares | none | 2019/02/21 12:03 AM |
That last line should have been removed :-) (NT) | none | 2019/02/21 12:04 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Michael S | 2019/02/21 01:47 AM |
ARM announces Ares | none | 2019/02/21 03:59 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Michael S | 2019/02/21 04:45 AM |
ARM announces Ares | dmcq | 2019/02/21 05:18 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Simon Farnsworth | 2019/02/22 09:43 AM |
ARM announces Ares | anon | 2019/02/20 09:27 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Michael S | 2019/02/21 01:53 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Linus Torvalds | 2019/02/21 09:03 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Michael S | 2019/02/21 09:35 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Michael S | 2019/02/21 09:51 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Foo_ | 2019/02/21 02:40 PM |
ARM announces Ares | aaron spink | 2019/02/21 03:56 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Linus Torvalds | 2019/02/21 04:27 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Stoffels | 2019/02/22 12:21 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Michael S | 2019/02/22 04:15 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Simon Farnsworth | 2019/02/22 09:41 AM |
ARM announces Ares | none | 2019/02/22 10:30 AM |
In other words: nobody will ever get fired for choosing x86 (NT) | Gabriele Svelto | 2019/02/24 01:32 PM |
In other words: nobody will ever get fired for choosing x86 | Simon Farnsworth | 2019/02/25 04:53 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Foo_ | 2019/02/22 02:52 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Gabriele Svelto | 2019/02/24 01:31 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Maynard Handley | 2019/02/25 03:57 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Gabriele Svelto | 2019/02/25 04:21 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Michael S | 2019/02/25 04:58 AM |
ARM announces Ares | nobody in particular | 2019/02/25 05:21 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Adrian | 2019/02/26 08:02 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Maynard Handley | 2019/02/26 12:32 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Gabriele Svelto | 2019/02/26 12:14 PM |
ARM announces Ares | David Hess | 2019/03/19 05:34 PM |
ARM announces Ares | none | 2019/02/26 01:34 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Gabriele Svelto | 2019/02/26 12:16 PM |
ARM announces Ares | none | 2019/02/27 12:19 AM |
ARM announces Ares | end of an era | 2019/02/24 03:18 PM |
Word salad bot strikes again (NT) | nanon | 2019/02/25 12:26 AM |
ARM announces Ares | hobel | 2019/02/25 02:10 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Michael S | 2019/02/25 02:52 AM |
ARM announces Ares | hobel | 2019/02/25 10:48 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Andrew Clough | 2019/02/25 02:07 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Maynard Handley | 2019/02/26 12:38 AM |
ARM announces Ares | John Yates | 2019/02/26 03:43 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Howard Chu | 2019/02/27 06:55 AM |
ARM announces Ares | David Hess | 2019/03/19 05:22 PM |
ARM announces Ares | David Hess | 2019/03/19 04:54 PM |
ARMY announces Ares | dmcq | 2019/03/20 03:12 AM |
ARMY announces Ares | David Hess | 2019/03/20 05:47 AM |
ARMY announces Ares | dmcq | 2019/03/20 06:05 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Groo | 2019/02/21 10:23 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Michael S | 2019/02/21 10:29 AM |
ARM announces Ares | David Hess | 2019/03/19 05:44 PM |
ARM announces Ares | juanrga | 2019/02/21 11:52 AM |
ARM announces Ares | anon | 2019/02/21 08:19 PM |
ARM announces Ares | hobel | 2019/02/22 03:40 AM |
software ecosystems | RichardC | 2019/02/21 04:31 PM |
software ecosystems | Foo_ | 2019/02/22 03:15 AM |
ARM announces Ares | dmcq | 2019/02/21 05:31 PM |
+ on hyperscaling | dmcq | 2019/02/22 08:23 AM |
+ on hyperscaling | Maynard Handley | 2019/02/22 08:38 AM |
+ on hyperscaling | juanrga | 2019/02/22 11:57 AM |
+ on hyperscaling | dmcq | 2019/02/22 08:23 AM |
sorry duplicate | dmcq | 2019/02/22 08:26 AM |
ARM announces Ares | anon | 2019/02/21 08:34 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Brett | 2019/02/21 10:20 PM |
ARM announces Ares | A. Wilcox | 2019/02/22 03:52 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Doug S | 2019/02/20 03:30 PM |
ARM announces Ares | dmcq | 2019/02/20 04:14 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Doug S | 2019/02/21 08:40 AM |
ARM announces Ares | aaron spink | 2019/02/21 04:05 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Maynard Handley | 2019/02/22 08:48 AM |
ARM announces Ares | juanrga | 2019/02/21 02:28 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Michael S | 2019/02/21 03:25 AM |
ARM announces Ares | juanrga | 2019/02/22 04:09 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Maynard Handley | 2019/02/22 08:51 AM |
ARM announces Ares | David Soul | 2019/02/22 11:47 AM |
ARM announces Ares | juanrga | 2019/02/22 12:23 PM |
Chicken or egg, both. | Brett | 2019/02/22 02:21 PM |
Chicken or egg, both. | David Soul | 2019/02/22 06:05 PM |
Chicken or egg, both. | Brett | 2019/02/22 09:55 PM |
ARM sales | juanrga | 2019/02/23 03:55 AM |
ARM sales | aaron spink | 2019/02/23 08:47 AM |
Chicken or egg, both. | Ronald Maas | 2019/02/23 06:33 PM |
Chicken or egg, both. | Magagop | 2019/02/24 11:18 PM |
why not? (NT) | Michael S | 2019/02/25 02:03 AM |
why not? | Not the parent | 2019/02/25 10:36 AM |
why not? | Michael S | 2019/02/25 10:43 AM |
why not? | dmcq | 2019/02/25 11:35 AM |
why not? | Michael S | 2019/02/25 12:03 PM |
why not? | dmcq | 2019/02/25 12:29 PM |
why not? | Not the parent | 2019/02/26 10:08 AM |
why not? | Doug S | 2019/02/26 12:05 PM |
why not? | Not the parent | 2019/02/27 04:51 AM |
why not? | Doug S | 2019/02/27 12:15 PM |
why not? | Not the parent | 2019/02/28 01:43 AM |
why not? | anon | 2019/02/26 11:22 PM |
why not? | Not the parent | 2019/02/27 04:59 AM |
why not? | anon | 2019/02/27 06:42 AM |
why not? | Magagop | 2019/02/27 03:31 PM |
why not? | anon | 2019/02/27 05:02 PM |
why not? | dmcq | 2019/02/27 05:25 PM |
why not? | anon | 2019/02/27 05:56 PM |
why not? | dmcq | 2019/02/27 06:19 PM |
why not? | anon | 2019/02/27 06:46 PM |
why not? | Wilco | 2019/02/28 05:49 AM |
why not? | Jukka Larja | 2019/02/28 07:02 AM |
why not? | Michael S | 2019/02/28 08:32 AM |
why not? | Wilco | 2019/02/28 09:40 AM |
why not? | Doug S | 2019/02/28 10:13 AM |
why not? | Foo_ | 2019/03/01 07:35 AM |
why not? | Doug S | 2019/03/01 11:05 AM |
why not? | anon | 2019/03/01 02:32 PM |
why not? | dmcq | 2019/03/01 03:13 PM |
why not? | anon | 2019/03/01 04:13 PM |
why not? | dmcq | 2019/03/02 03:56 AM |
why not? | anon | 2019/03/02 10:09 AM |
why not? | dmcq | 2019/03/02 10:41 AM |
why not? | anon | 2019/03/02 12:19 PM |
why not? | dmcq | 2019/03/03 03:48 AM |
why not? | Doug S | 2019/03/02 04:53 PM |
why not? | Michael S | 2019/03/02 05:06 PM |
why not? | Doug S | 2019/03/03 12:54 AM |
why not? | Michael S | 2019/03/03 02:58 AM |
why not? | anon | 2019/03/03 05:35 AM |
why not? | dmcq | 2019/03/03 06:33 AM |
I considired dry humor a Brittish specialty. It seems, I was wrong about it. (NT) | Michael S | 2019/03/03 06:39 AM |
why not? | anon | 2019/03/03 10:13 AM |
why not? | Michael S | 2019/03/03 12:41 PM |
why not? | dmcq | 2019/03/03 01:21 PM |
why not? | anon | 2019/03/03 04:15 PM |
why not? | anon | 2019/02/28 08:38 PM |
why not? | Not the parent | 2019/02/28 01:48 AM |
strawman (NT) | anon | 2019/02/28 08:31 PM |
why not? | Michael S | 2019/02/27 03:53 AM |
why not? | Not the parent | 2019/02/27 05:26 AM |
why not? | Michael S | 2019/02/27 05:42 AM |
why not? | dmcq | 2019/02/27 05:49 AM |
why not? | Michael S | 2019/02/27 06:21 AM |
why not? | dmcq | 2019/02/27 07:15 AM |
Selling at multiple layers | Paul A. Clayton | 2019/02/27 11:25 AM |
Selling at multiple layers | Doug S | 2019/02/27 12:45 PM |
Selling at multiple layers | Paul A. Clayton | 2019/02/27 02:32 PM |
Selling at multiple layers | Doug S | 2019/02/27 04:04 PM |
Paul A. Clayton | 2019/02/27 07:06 PM | |
Arm reference board? | Simon Farnsworth | 2019/02/28 12:34 PM |
why not? | Doug S | 2019/02/27 12:46 PM |
why not? (NT) | la mama de murgay | 2019/02/25 10:22 PM |
Chicken or egg, both. | Ronald Maas | 2019/02/25 01:23 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Gabriele Svelto | 2019/02/24 03:07 PM |
ARM announces Ares | juanrga | 2019/03/02 05:40 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Gabriele Svelto | 2019/03/02 08:08 AM |
ARM announces Ares | dmcq | 2019/03/02 10:10 AM |
ARM announces Ares | hobel | 2019/02/22 04:33 PM |
ARM announces Ares | David Soul | 2019/02/22 06:20 PM |
Troll | Doug S | 2019/02/23 01:37 AM |
Troll | David Soul | 2019/02/23 08:59 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Ennis | 2019/02/23 02:18 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Foo_ | 2019/02/23 02:38 AM |
ARM announces Ares | anon | 2019/02/23 03:46 AM |
ARM announces Ares | dmcq | 2019/02/23 05:41 AM |
ARM announces Ares | nobody in particular | 2019/02/26 03:58 AM |
expensive | anonymous2 | 2019/02/27 12:46 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Howard Chu | 2019/02/27 07:19 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Howard Chu | 2019/02/27 07:21 AM |
ARM announces Ares | dmcq | 2019/02/27 07:57 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Jukka Larja | 2019/02/27 08:11 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Michael S | 2019/02/27 08:16 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Doug S | 2019/02/27 12:49 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Michael S | 2019/02/27 01:43 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Doug S | 2019/02/27 04:06 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Gian-Carlo Pascutto | 2019/02/28 05:00 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Gian-Carlo Pascutto | 2019/02/28 05:02 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Michael S | 2019/03/01 03:47 AM |
death by a thousand cuts | Michael S | 2019/03/01 07:27 AM |
death by a thousand cuts | Foo_ | 2019/03/01 07:37 AM |
death by a thousand cuts | dmcq | 2019/03/01 12:10 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Jukka Larja | 2019/02/28 06:31 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Howard Chu | 2019/02/28 09:17 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Gabriele Svelto | 2019/02/28 03:02 PM |
ARM announces Ares | aaron spink | 2019/03/01 01:19 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Andrew Clough | 2019/02/28 11:32 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Andrew Clough | 2019/02/28 11:33 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Foo_ | 2019/03/01 01:55 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Jukka Larja | 2019/03/01 05:40 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Howard Chu | 2019/02/27 08:45 AM |
ARM announces Ares | dmcq | 2019/02/27 09:17 AM |
ARM announces Ares | dmcq | 2019/02/27 09:21 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Howard Chu | 2019/02/27 04:03 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Jukka Larja | 2019/02/28 06:03 AM |
ARM announces Ares | none | 2019/02/27 11:49 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Howard Chu | 2019/02/28 04:26 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Peter E. Fry | 2019/02/28 07:31 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Adrian | 2019/02/28 10:09 PM |
ARM announces Ares | Gabriele Svelto | 2019/03/02 12:56 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Howard Chu | 2019/03/02 10:05 AM |
ARM announces Ares | Gabriele Svelto | 2019/03/02 02:31 PM |