ARM announces Ares

By: Simon Farnsworth (simon.delete@this.farnz.org.uk), February 22, 2019 8:43 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
dmcq (dmcq.delete@this.fano.co.uk) on February 21, 2019 4:18 am wrote:
> none (none.delete@this.none.com) on February 21, 2019 2:59 am wrote:
> > Michael S (already5chosen.delete@this.yahoo.com) on February 21, 2019 12:47 am wrote:
> > > none (none.delete@this.none.com) on February 20, 2019 11:03 pm wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I hope they won't do as Intel that still don't have AVX on all of their CPU more than
> > > > 10 years after it was announced.
> > > >
> > >
> > > You mean, you have hopes that by 2026 all ARMv8-A cores shipped in new silicon
> > > will include support for SVE? Given Arm's business model, the chance for it
> > > appears very close to zero. Personally, I don't consider it a problem.
> >
> > What in ARM's business model would prevent from having SVE in v8A cores according to you?
> >
> > A 128-bit SVE should not be significantly larger than Neon and could reuse the datapaths,
> > so it'd be better to have it even on lower end A class CPU.
> >
> > > The problem right now is not that SVE support is not universal, but that it does
> > > not exist at all, even in cores like N1, where it would already make sense.
> >
> > Agreed. But that's not what I had in mind. Once ARM has a core with SVE, I would prefer
> > that they have it in every A class CPU, contrary to what Intel does. ARM already made a
> > mistake by making Neon optional on Cortex-A9, which resulted in NVidia not using it, which
> > in turn meant that Android did not have support for Neon enabled by default in their
> > toolchains for years, and you had to have two codepaths.
>
> Agree with that, I think even a 128 bit version would simplify a lot of things and be a performance
> boost. The problem I can see is that it would require everybody to implement it and it would need to
> be free to any ARMv8 licencee. I don't think there would be an appreciable area cost and the design
> cost would be fairly reasonable I believe if they don't need to optimise things like scatter gather.

How much area cost is there if you simply demand SVE at 128 bit width if, and only if, you have NEON implemented? Basically, change http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.den0024a/CJHECGIH.html from saying you're allowed to do either no FP, or FP + NEON, to saying either no FP or FP + NEON + SVE.
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TopicPosted ByDate
ARM announces Aresnobody in particular2019/02/20 07:35 AM
  ARM announces AresAdrian2019/02/20 07:39 AM
    ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 09:03 AM
      ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/20 09:41 AM
        ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 11:49 AM
          ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/20 12:21 PM
            ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 01:01 PM
              ARM announces AresWilco2019/02/20 01:31 PM
                ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 02:16 PM
                  ARM announces AresWilco2019/02/20 02:49 PM
                    ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 03:09 PM
                      ARM announces AresWilco2019/02/20 03:45 PM
                        ARM announces Aresnobody in particular2019/02/20 03:55 PM
                          ARM announces AresDan Fay2019/02/20 04:44 PM
                            ARM announces AresWilco2019/02/20 06:06 PM
                              ARM announces AresDan Fay2019/02/21 07:27 AM
                        ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 04:49 PM
                          ARM announces AresWilco2019/02/20 05:40 PM
                            ARM announces AresCharles2019/02/21 01:16 AM
                              ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 01:26 AM
                        ARM announces Aresanon2019/02/20 07:55 PM
                          ARM announces AresJS2019/02/20 11:59 PM
                            *has not hasn't (NT)JS2019/02/21 12:01 AM
                            ARM announces AresSalvatore De Dominicis2019/02/21 06:05 AM
                        Definitions of RISCBrendan2019/02/21 09:07 AM
                          Definitions of RISCMichael S2019/02/21 09:16 AM
                          PDP-8 Not Usually Considered RISCMark Roulo2019/02/21 01:10 PM
                            PDP-8 Not Usually Considered RISCrwessel2019/02/21 06:13 PM
                          Definitions of RISCAdrian2019/02/21 01:42 PM
                            Definitions of RISC (nod to John Mashey and comp.arch)wumpus2019/02/21 05:29 PM
                              Definitions of RISC (nod to John Mashey and comp.arch)none2019/02/21 11:32 PM
                                Definitions of RISC (nod to John Mashey and comp.arch)Michael S2019/02/22 03:28 AM
                                  Definitions of RISC (nod to John Mashey and comp.arch)none2019/02/22 07:01 AM
  ARM announces Areslockederboss2019/02/20 08:56 AM
    stability? (NT)anonymous22019/02/20 09:01 AM
    ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 09:05 AM
    ARM announces AresGroo2019/02/20 09:11 AM
    ARM announces AresAndrei Frumusanu2019/02/20 10:49 AM
  ARM announces AresLinus Torvalds2019/02/20 09:36 AM
    ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/20 09:54 AM
    ARM announces AresGeoff Langdale2019/02/20 02:07 PM
      ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 02:32 PM
      ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/20 11:03 PM
        That last line should have been removed :-) (NT)none2019/02/20 11:04 PM
        ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 12:47 AM
          ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/21 02:59 AM
            ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 03:45 AM
            ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/21 04:18 AM
              ARM announces AresSimon Farnsworth2019/02/22 08:43 AM
    ARM announces Aresanon2019/02/20 08:27 PM
      ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 12:53 AM
        ARM announces AresLinus Torvalds2019/02/21 08:03 AM
          ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 08:35 AM
            ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 08:51 AM
            ARM announces AresFoo_2019/02/21 01:40 PM
            ARM announces Aresaaron spink2019/02/21 02:56 PM
            ARM announces AresLinus Torvalds2019/02/21 03:27 PM
              ARM announces AresStoffels2019/02/21 11:21 PM
                ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/22 03:15 AM
                  ARM announces AresSimon Farnsworth2019/02/22 08:41 AM
                    ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/22 09:30 AM
                    In other words: nobody will ever get fired for choosing x86 (NT)Gabriele Svelto2019/02/24 12:32 PM
                      In other words: nobody will ever get fired for choosing x86Simon Farnsworth2019/02/25 03:53 AM
              ARM announces AresFoo_2019/02/22 01:52 AM
              ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/24 12:31 PM
                ARM announces AresMaynard Handley2019/02/25 02:57 AM
                  ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/25 03:21 AM
                    ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/25 03:58 AM
                      ARM announces Aresnobody in particular2019/02/25 04:21 AM
                        ARM announces AresAdrian2019/02/26 07:02 AM
                    ARM announces AresMaynard Handley2019/02/25 11:32 PM
                      ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/26 11:14 AM
                      ARM announces AresDavid Hess2019/03/19 04:34 PM
                    ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/26 12:34 AM
                      ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/26 11:16 AM
                        ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/26 11:19 PM
              ARM announces Aresend of an era2019/02/24 02:18 PM
                Word salad bot strikes again (NT)nanon2019/02/24 11:26 PM
                ARM announces Areshobel2019/02/25 01:10 AM
                  ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/25 01:52 AM
                    ARM announces Areshobel2019/02/25 09:48 AM
                      ARM announces AresAndrew Clough2019/02/25 01:07 PM
                      ARM announces AresMaynard Handley2019/02/25 11:38 PM
                    ARM announces AresJohn Yates2019/02/26 02:43 PM
              ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/27 05:55 AM
              ARM announces AresDavid Hess2019/03/19 04:22 PM
            ARM announces AresDavid Hess2019/03/19 03:54 PM
              ARMY announces Aresdmcq2019/03/20 02:12 AM
                ARMY announces AresDavid Hess2019/03/20 04:47 AM
                  ARMY announces Aresdmcq2019/03/20 05:05 AM
          ARM announces AresGroo2019/02/21 09:23 AM
            ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 09:29 AM
              ARM announces AresDavid Hess2019/03/19 04:44 PM
            ARM announces Aresjuanrga2019/02/21 10:52 AM
            ARM announces Aresanon2019/02/21 07:19 PM
              ARM announces Areshobel2019/02/22 02:40 AM
          software ecosystemsRichardC2019/02/21 03:31 PM
            software ecosystemsFoo_2019/02/22 02:15 AM
          ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/21 04:31 PM
            + on hyperscalingdmcq2019/02/22 07:23 AM
              + on hyperscalingMaynard Handley2019/02/22 07:38 AM
                + on hyperscalingjuanrga2019/02/22 10:57 AM
            + on hyperscalingdmcq2019/02/22 07:23 AM
              sorry duplicatedmcq2019/02/22 07:26 AM
          ARM announces Aresanon2019/02/21 07:34 PM
            ARM announces AresBrett2019/02/21 09:20 PM
          ARM announces AresA. Wilcox2019/02/22 02:52 PM
  ARM announces AresDoug S2019/02/20 02:30 PM
    ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 03:14 PM
      ARM announces AresDoug S2019/02/21 07:40 AM
        ARM announces Aresaaron spink2019/02/21 03:05 PM
        ARM announces AresMaynard Handley2019/02/22 07:48 AM
  ARM announces Aresjuanrga2019/02/21 01:28 AM
    ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 02:25 AM
      ARM announces Aresjuanrga2019/02/22 03:09 AM
      ARM announces AresMaynard Handley2019/02/22 07:51 AM
        ARM announces AresDavid Soul2019/02/22 10:47 AM
          ARM announces Aresjuanrga2019/02/22 11:23 AM
            Chicken or egg, both.Brett2019/02/22 01:21 PM
              Chicken or egg, both.David Soul2019/02/22 05:05 PM
                Chicken or egg, both.Brett2019/02/22 08:55 PM
                  ARM salesjuanrga2019/02/23 02:55 AM
                    ARM salesaaron spink2019/02/23 07:47 AM
                Chicken or egg, both.Ronald Maas2019/02/23 05:33 PM
                  Chicken or egg, both.Magagop2019/02/24 10:18 PM
                    why not? (NT)Michael S2019/02/25 01:03 AM
                      why not?Not the parent2019/02/25 09:36 AM
                        why not?Michael S2019/02/25 09:43 AM
                          why not?dmcq2019/02/25 10:35 AM
                            why not?Michael S2019/02/25 11:03 AM
                              why not?dmcq2019/02/25 11:29 AM
                              why not?Not the parent2019/02/26 09:08 AM
                                why not?Doug S2019/02/26 11:05 AM
                                  why not?Not the parent2019/02/27 03:51 AM
                                    why not?Doug S2019/02/27 11:15 AM
                                      why not?Not the parent2019/02/28 12:43 AM
                                why not?anon2019/02/26 10:22 PM
                                  why not?Not the parent2019/02/27 03:59 AM
                                    why not?anon2019/02/27 05:42 AM
                                      why not?Magagop2019/02/27 02:31 PM
                                        why not?anon2019/02/27 04:02 PM
                                          why not?dmcq2019/02/27 04:25 PM
                                            why not?anon2019/02/27 04:56 PM
                                              why not?dmcq2019/02/27 05:19 PM
                                                why not?anon2019/02/27 05:46 PM
                                                  why not?Wilco2019/02/28 04:49 AM
                                                    why not?Jukka Larja2019/02/28 06:02 AM
                                                      why not?Michael S2019/02/28 07:32 AM
                                                      why not?Wilco2019/02/28 08:40 AM
                                                      why not?Doug S2019/02/28 09:13 AM
                                                        why not?Foo_2019/03/01 06:35 AM
                                                          why not?Doug S2019/03/01 10:05 AM
                                                            why not?anon2019/03/01 01:32 PM
                                                              why not?dmcq2019/03/01 02:13 PM
                                                                why not?anon2019/03/01 03:13 PM
                                                                  why not?dmcq2019/03/02 02:56 AM
                                                                    why not?anon2019/03/02 09:09 AM
                                                                      why not?dmcq2019/03/02 09:41 AM
                                                                        why not?anon2019/03/02 11:19 AM
                                                                          why not?dmcq2019/03/03 02:48 AM
                                                                      why not?Doug S2019/03/02 03:53 PM
                                                                        why not?Michael S2019/03/02 04:06 PM
                                                                          why not?Doug S2019/03/02 11:54 PM
                                                                            why not?Michael S2019/03/03 01:58 AM
                                                                              why not?anon2019/03/03 04:35 AM
                                                                                why not?dmcq2019/03/03 05:33 AM
                                                                                  I considired dry humor a Brittish specialty. It seems, I was wrong about it. (NT)Michael S2019/03/03 05:39 AM
                                                                                  why not?anon2019/03/03 09:13 AM
                                                                                    why not?Michael S2019/03/03 11:41 AM
                                                                                      why not?dmcq2019/03/03 12:21 PM
                                                                                        why not?anon2019/03/03 03:15 PM
                                                    why not?anon2019/02/28 07:38 PM
                                              why not?Not the parent2019/02/28 12:48 AM
                                                strawman (NT)anon2019/02/28 07:31 PM
                            why not?Michael S2019/02/27 02:53 AM
                              why not?Not the parent2019/02/27 04:26 AM
                                why not?Michael S2019/02/27 04:42 AM
                              why not?dmcq2019/02/27 04:49 AM
                                why not?Michael S2019/02/27 05:21 AM
                                  why not?dmcq2019/02/27 06:15 AM
                                Selling at multiple layersPaul A. Clayton2019/02/27 10:25 AM
                                  Selling at multiple layersDoug S2019/02/27 11:45 AM
                                    Selling at multiple layersPaul A. Clayton2019/02/27 01:32 PM
                                      Selling at multiple layersDoug S2019/02/27 03:04 PM
                                        Paul A. Clayton2019/02/27 06:06 PM
                                          Arm reference board?Simon Farnsworth2019/02/28 11:34 AM
                                why not?Doug S2019/02/27 11:46 AM
                      why not? (NT)la mama de murgay2019/02/25 09:22 PM
                    Chicken or egg, both.Ronald Maas2019/02/25 12:23 PM
            ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/24 02:07 PM
              ARM announces Aresjuanrga2019/03/02 04:40 AM
                ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/03/02 07:08 AM
                  ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/03/02 09:10 AM
          ARM announces Areshobel2019/02/22 03:33 PM
            ARM announces AresDavid Soul2019/02/22 05:20 PM
              TrollDoug S2019/02/23 12:37 AM
                TrollDavid Soul2019/02/23 07:59 AM
              ARM announces AresEnnis2019/02/23 01:18 AM
                ARM announces AresFoo_2019/02/23 01:38 AM
                  ARM announces Aresanon2019/02/23 02:46 AM
                ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/23 04:41 AM
  ARM announces Aresnobody in particular2019/02/26 02:58 AM
    expensiveanonymous22019/02/26 11:46 PM
    ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/27 06:19 AM
      ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/27 06:21 AM
        ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/27 06:57 AM
        ARM announces AresJukka Larja2019/02/27 07:11 AM
          ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/27 07:16 AM
            ARM announces AresDoug S2019/02/27 11:49 AM
              ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/27 12:43 PM
                ARM announces AresDoug S2019/02/27 03:06 PM
                  ARM announces AresGian-Carlo Pascutto2019/02/28 04:00 AM
                ARM announces AresGian-Carlo Pascutto2019/02/28 04:02 AM
                  ARM announces AresMichael S2019/03/01 02:47 AM
                    death by a thousand cutsMichael S2019/03/01 06:27 AM
                      death by a thousand cutsFoo_2019/03/01 06:37 AM
                        death by a thousand cutsdmcq2019/03/01 11:10 AM
              ARM announces AresJukka Larja2019/02/28 05:31 AM
                ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/28 08:17 AM
                  ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/28 02:02 PM
                    ARM announces Aresaaron spink2019/03/01 12:19 AM
                ARM announces AresAndrew Clough2019/02/28 10:32 AM
                  ARM announces AresAndrew Clough2019/02/28 10:33 AM
                  ARM announces AresFoo_2019/03/01 12:55 AM
                  ARM announces AresJukka Larja2019/03/01 04:40 AM
          ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/27 07:45 AM
            ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/27 08:17 AM
              ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/27 08:21 AM
                ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/27 03:03 PM
            ARM announces AresJukka Larja2019/02/28 05:03 AM
      ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/27 10:49 PM
        ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/28 03:26 AM
          ARM announces AresPeter E. Fry2019/02/28 06:31 PM
            ARM announces AresAdrian2019/02/28 09:09 PM
            ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/03/01 11:56 PM
              ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/03/02 09:05 AM
                ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/03/02 01:31 PM
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