Selling at multiple layers

By: Doug S (foo.delete@this.bar.bar), February 27, 2019 11:45 am
Room: Moderated Discussions
Paul A. Clayton (paaronclayton.delete@this.gmail.com) on February 27, 2019 10:25 am wrote:
> If (when?) anyone can trivially assemble ARM design components, ARM will be hurting the profit
> margins of those licensing its designs. When a MediaTek chip that just assembles ARM design components
> is nearly as good as a Qualcomm product, it would become difficult to justify extra design effort
> from Qualcomm and higher prices (to fund such effort and increase profit).


What extra design effort? Qualcomm already gave up doing custom cores several years ago, now they use standard ARM cores. Maybe they are tweaking them a bit, but if they are it isn't enough to show up in benchmarks. So Qualcomm has no room to complain about ARM's licensing making them feel the pain of competition, because they are simply licensing cores themselves.

The only Android OEM designing custom cores is Samsung, and their M4 core was benchmarked by Anandtech and found to be about equal to the A75 cores in the SD845, and well behind the A76 cores in the SD855. But they probably don't care, they are saving a lot of money not paying the Qualcomm tax on the SoCs for Europe etc. that don't need US spec CDMA. I expect next year's Galaxy S11 to use Samsung's core in the US since CDMA won't be a factor anymore, they will still need it in China unless they add support for China's special 3G/4G sauce.

Qualcomm's value add is in the integration of everything you need, including cellular and other stuff like fingerprint readers. That's where they will have to do better than the rest to keep their competitive edge, but when modems from Samsung, Huawei, Mediatek and Intel become "good enough", and the other stuff is "good enough" then there isn't much room for them to get a bigger profit margin off their SoCs. That won't be ARM's fault though, anymore than ARM is to blame for the smartphone market being saturated and replacement cycles lengthening.
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ARM announces Aresnobody in particular2019/02/20 07:35 AM
  ARM announces AresAdrian2019/02/20 07:39 AM
    ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 09:03 AM
      ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/20 09:41 AM
        ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 11:49 AM
          ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/20 12:21 PM
            ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 01:01 PM
              ARM announces AresWilco2019/02/20 01:31 PM
                ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 02:16 PM
                  ARM announces AresWilco2019/02/20 02:49 PM
                    ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 03:09 PM
                      ARM announces AresWilco2019/02/20 03:45 PM
                        ARM announces Aresnobody in particular2019/02/20 03:55 PM
                          ARM announces AresDan Fay2019/02/20 04:44 PM
                            ARM announces AresWilco2019/02/20 06:06 PM
                              ARM announces AresDan Fay2019/02/21 07:27 AM
                        ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 04:49 PM
                          ARM announces AresWilco2019/02/20 05:40 PM
                            ARM announces AresCharles2019/02/21 01:16 AM
                              ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 01:26 AM
                        ARM announces Aresanon2019/02/20 07:55 PM
                          ARM announces AresJS2019/02/20 11:59 PM
                            *has not hasn't (NT)JS2019/02/21 12:01 AM
                            ARM announces AresSalvatore De Dominicis2019/02/21 06:05 AM
                        Definitions of RISCBrendan2019/02/21 09:07 AM
                          Definitions of RISCMichael S2019/02/21 09:16 AM
                          PDP-8 Not Usually Considered RISCMark Roulo2019/02/21 01:10 PM
                            PDP-8 Not Usually Considered RISCrwessel2019/02/21 06:13 PM
                          Definitions of RISCAdrian2019/02/21 01:42 PM
                            Definitions of RISC (nod to John Mashey and comp.arch)wumpus2019/02/21 05:29 PM
                              Definitions of RISC (nod to John Mashey and comp.arch)none2019/02/21 11:32 PM
                                Definitions of RISC (nod to John Mashey and comp.arch)Michael S2019/02/22 03:28 AM
                                  Definitions of RISC (nod to John Mashey and comp.arch)none2019/02/22 07:01 AM
  ARM announces Areslockederboss2019/02/20 08:56 AM
    stability? (NT)anonymous22019/02/20 09:01 AM
    ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 09:05 AM
    ARM announces AresGroo2019/02/20 09:11 AM
    ARM announces AresAndrei Frumusanu2019/02/20 10:49 AM
  ARM announces AresLinus Torvalds2019/02/20 09:36 AM
    ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/20 09:54 AM
    ARM announces AresGeoff Langdale2019/02/20 02:07 PM
      ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 02:32 PM
      ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/20 11:03 PM
        That last line should have been removed :-) (NT)none2019/02/20 11:04 PM
        ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 12:47 AM
          ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/21 02:59 AM
            ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 03:45 AM
            ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/21 04:18 AM
              ARM announces AresSimon Farnsworth2019/02/22 08:43 AM
    ARM announces Aresanon2019/02/20 08:27 PM
      ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 12:53 AM
        ARM announces AresLinus Torvalds2019/02/21 08:03 AM
          ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 08:35 AM
            ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 08:51 AM
            ARM announces AresFoo_2019/02/21 01:40 PM
            ARM announces Aresaaron spink2019/02/21 02:56 PM
            ARM announces AresLinus Torvalds2019/02/21 03:27 PM
              ARM announces AresStoffels2019/02/21 11:21 PM
                ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/22 03:15 AM
                  ARM announces AresSimon Farnsworth2019/02/22 08:41 AM
                    ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/22 09:30 AM
                    In other words: nobody will ever get fired for choosing x86 (NT)Gabriele Svelto2019/02/24 12:32 PM
                      In other words: nobody will ever get fired for choosing x86Simon Farnsworth2019/02/25 03:53 AM
              ARM announces AresFoo_2019/02/22 01:52 AM
              ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/24 12:31 PM
                ARM announces AresMaynard Handley2019/02/25 02:57 AM
                  ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/25 03:21 AM
                    ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/25 03:58 AM
                      ARM announces Aresnobody in particular2019/02/25 04:21 AM
                        ARM announces AresAdrian2019/02/26 07:02 AM
                    ARM announces AresMaynard Handley2019/02/25 11:32 PM
                      ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/26 11:14 AM
                      ARM announces AresDavid Hess2019/03/19 04:34 PM
                    ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/26 12:34 AM
                      ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/26 11:16 AM
                        ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/26 11:19 PM
              ARM announces Aresend of an era2019/02/24 02:18 PM
                Word salad bot strikes again (NT)nanon2019/02/24 11:26 PM
                ARM announces Areshobel2019/02/25 01:10 AM
                  ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/25 01:52 AM
                    ARM announces Areshobel2019/02/25 09:48 AM
                      ARM announces AresAndrew Clough2019/02/25 01:07 PM
                      ARM announces AresMaynard Handley2019/02/25 11:38 PM
                    ARM announces AresJohn Yates2019/02/26 02:43 PM
              ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/27 05:55 AM
              ARM announces AresDavid Hess2019/03/19 04:22 PM
            ARM announces AresDavid Hess2019/03/19 03:54 PM
              ARMY announces Aresdmcq2019/03/20 02:12 AM
                ARMY announces AresDavid Hess2019/03/20 04:47 AM
                  ARMY announces Aresdmcq2019/03/20 05:05 AM
          ARM announces AresGroo2019/02/21 09:23 AM
            ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 09:29 AM
              ARM announces AresDavid Hess2019/03/19 04:44 PM
            ARM announces Aresjuanrga2019/02/21 10:52 AM
            ARM announces Aresanon2019/02/21 07:19 PM
              ARM announces Areshobel2019/02/22 02:40 AM
          software ecosystemsRichardC2019/02/21 03:31 PM
            software ecosystemsFoo_2019/02/22 02:15 AM
          ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/21 04:31 PM
            + on hyperscalingdmcq2019/02/22 07:23 AM
              + on hyperscalingMaynard Handley2019/02/22 07:38 AM
                + on hyperscalingjuanrga2019/02/22 10:57 AM
            + on hyperscalingdmcq2019/02/22 07:23 AM
              sorry duplicatedmcq2019/02/22 07:26 AM
          ARM announces Aresanon2019/02/21 07:34 PM
            ARM announces AresBrett2019/02/21 09:20 PM
          ARM announces AresA. Wilcox2019/02/22 02:52 PM
  ARM announces AresDoug S2019/02/20 02:30 PM
    ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/20 03:14 PM
      ARM announces AresDoug S2019/02/21 07:40 AM
        ARM announces Aresaaron spink2019/02/21 03:05 PM
        ARM announces AresMaynard Handley2019/02/22 07:48 AM
  ARM announces Aresjuanrga2019/02/21 01:28 AM
    ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/21 02:25 AM
      ARM announces Aresjuanrga2019/02/22 03:09 AM
      ARM announces AresMaynard Handley2019/02/22 07:51 AM
        ARM announces AresDavid Soul2019/02/22 10:47 AM
          ARM announces Aresjuanrga2019/02/22 11:23 AM
            Chicken or egg, both.Brett2019/02/22 01:21 PM
              Chicken or egg, both.David Soul2019/02/22 05:05 PM
                Chicken or egg, both.Brett2019/02/22 08:55 PM
                  ARM salesjuanrga2019/02/23 02:55 AM
                    ARM salesaaron spink2019/02/23 07:47 AM
                Chicken or egg, both.Ronald Maas2019/02/23 05:33 PM
                  Chicken or egg, both.Magagop2019/02/24 10:18 PM
                    why not? (NT)Michael S2019/02/25 01:03 AM
                      why not?Not the parent2019/02/25 09:36 AM
                        why not?Michael S2019/02/25 09:43 AM
                          why not?dmcq2019/02/25 10:35 AM
                            why not?Michael S2019/02/25 11:03 AM
                              why not?dmcq2019/02/25 11:29 AM
                              why not?Not the parent2019/02/26 09:08 AM
                                why not?Doug S2019/02/26 11:05 AM
                                  why not?Not the parent2019/02/27 03:51 AM
                                    why not?Doug S2019/02/27 11:15 AM
                                      why not?Not the parent2019/02/28 12:43 AM
                                why not?anon2019/02/26 10:22 PM
                                  why not?Not the parent2019/02/27 03:59 AM
                                    why not?anon2019/02/27 05:42 AM
                                      why not?Magagop2019/02/27 02:31 PM
                                        why not?anon2019/02/27 04:02 PM
                                          why not?dmcq2019/02/27 04:25 PM
                                            why not?anon2019/02/27 04:56 PM
                                              why not?dmcq2019/02/27 05:19 PM
                                                why not?anon2019/02/27 05:46 PM
                                                  why not?Wilco2019/02/28 04:49 AM
                                                    why not?Jukka Larja2019/02/28 06:02 AM
                                                      why not?Michael S2019/02/28 07:32 AM
                                                      why not?Wilco2019/02/28 08:40 AM
                                                      why not?Doug S2019/02/28 09:13 AM
                                                        why not?Foo_2019/03/01 06:35 AM
                                                          why not?Doug S2019/03/01 10:05 AM
                                                            why not?anon2019/03/01 01:32 PM
                                                              why not?dmcq2019/03/01 02:13 PM
                                                                why not?anon2019/03/01 03:13 PM
                                                                  why not?dmcq2019/03/02 02:56 AM
                                                                    why not?anon2019/03/02 09:09 AM
                                                                      why not?dmcq2019/03/02 09:41 AM
                                                                        why not?anon2019/03/02 11:19 AM
                                                                          why not?dmcq2019/03/03 02:48 AM
                                                                      why not?Doug S2019/03/02 03:53 PM
                                                                        why not?Michael S2019/03/02 04:06 PM
                                                                          why not?Doug S2019/03/02 11:54 PM
                                                                            why not?Michael S2019/03/03 01:58 AM
                                                                              why not?anon2019/03/03 04:35 AM
                                                                                why not?dmcq2019/03/03 05:33 AM
                                                                                  I considired dry humor a Brittish specialty. It seems, I was wrong about it. (NT)Michael S2019/03/03 05:39 AM
                                                                                  why not?anon2019/03/03 09:13 AM
                                                                                    why not?Michael S2019/03/03 11:41 AM
                                                                                      why not?dmcq2019/03/03 12:21 PM
                                                                                        why not?anon2019/03/03 03:15 PM
                                                    why not?anon2019/02/28 07:38 PM
                                              why not?Not the parent2019/02/28 12:48 AM
                                                strawman (NT)anon2019/02/28 07:31 PM
                            why not?Michael S2019/02/27 02:53 AM
                              why not?Not the parent2019/02/27 04:26 AM
                                why not?Michael S2019/02/27 04:42 AM
                              why not?dmcq2019/02/27 04:49 AM
                                why not?Michael S2019/02/27 05:21 AM
                                  why not?dmcq2019/02/27 06:15 AM
                                Selling at multiple layersPaul A. Clayton2019/02/27 10:25 AM
                                  Selling at multiple layersDoug S2019/02/27 11:45 AM
                                    Selling at multiple layersPaul A. Clayton2019/02/27 01:32 PM
                                      Selling at multiple layersDoug S2019/02/27 03:04 PM
                                        Paul A. Clayton2019/02/27 06:06 PM
                                          Arm reference board?Simon Farnsworth2019/02/28 11:34 AM
                                why not?Doug S2019/02/27 11:46 AM
                      why not? (NT)la mama de murgay2019/02/25 09:22 PM
                    Chicken or egg, both.Ronald Maas2019/02/25 12:23 PM
            ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/24 02:07 PM
              ARM announces Aresjuanrga2019/03/02 04:40 AM
                ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/03/02 07:08 AM
                  ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/03/02 09:10 AM
          ARM announces Areshobel2019/02/22 03:33 PM
            ARM announces AresDavid Soul2019/02/22 05:20 PM
              TrollDoug S2019/02/23 12:37 AM
                TrollDavid Soul2019/02/23 07:59 AM
              ARM announces AresEnnis2019/02/23 01:18 AM
                ARM announces AresFoo_2019/02/23 01:38 AM
                  ARM announces Aresanon2019/02/23 02:46 AM
                ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/23 04:41 AM
  ARM announces Aresnobody in particular2019/02/26 02:58 AM
    expensiveanonymous22019/02/26 11:46 PM
    ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/27 06:19 AM
      ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/27 06:21 AM
        ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/27 06:57 AM
        ARM announces AresJukka Larja2019/02/27 07:11 AM
          ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/27 07:16 AM
            ARM announces AresDoug S2019/02/27 11:49 AM
              ARM announces AresMichael S2019/02/27 12:43 PM
                ARM announces AresDoug S2019/02/27 03:06 PM
                  ARM announces AresGian-Carlo Pascutto2019/02/28 04:00 AM
                ARM announces AresGian-Carlo Pascutto2019/02/28 04:02 AM
                  ARM announces AresMichael S2019/03/01 02:47 AM
                    death by a thousand cutsMichael S2019/03/01 06:27 AM
                      death by a thousand cutsFoo_2019/03/01 06:37 AM
                        death by a thousand cutsdmcq2019/03/01 11:10 AM
              ARM announces AresJukka Larja2019/02/28 05:31 AM
                ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/28 08:17 AM
                  ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/02/28 02:02 PM
                    ARM announces Aresaaron spink2019/03/01 12:19 AM
                ARM announces AresAndrew Clough2019/02/28 10:32 AM
                  ARM announces AresAndrew Clough2019/02/28 10:33 AM
                  ARM announces AresFoo_2019/03/01 12:55 AM
                  ARM announces AresJukka Larja2019/03/01 04:40 AM
          ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/27 07:45 AM
            ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/27 08:17 AM
              ARM announces Aresdmcq2019/02/27 08:21 AM
                ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/27 03:03 PM
            ARM announces AresJukka Larja2019/02/28 05:03 AM
      ARM announces Aresnone2019/02/27 10:49 PM
        ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/02/28 03:26 AM
          ARM announces AresPeter E. Fry2019/02/28 06:31 PM
            ARM announces AresAdrian2019/02/28 09:09 PM
            ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/03/01 11:56 PM
              ARM announces AresHoward Chu2019/03/02 09:05 AM
                ARM announces AresGabriele Svelto2019/03/02 01:31 PM
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